OEM module Adaptive Memory/VEC II - Problem/Fix

[Bobpantax]

I have a 1999 GTS with an 8lb Roe system installed during the second week of February by Sean, Dave and the "Seanettes". The first aberration that occurred was interference with the AM radio band. The only other annoyances are a little bucking during the first mile of operation until the colder plugs heat up and the well known somewhat harsher operation below 2000 RPM inherent in the design of the system. All of the foregoing is easy to get use to in light of the fun that comes with the power gains. I should note that I use my Viper as a daily driver and have put on more than 2000 miles since the supercharger was installed. This past Saturday, while I was testing the Viper with the Service Manager of the dealership I go to, the engine started to breakup on acceleration at 5000 at WOT. A number of possibilities were considered. However the diagnostic showed what was really happening. It showed that the percentage of adaptive memory in the OEM computer module being used was sky high. We decided to disconnect the computer(and the battery cable)to wipe out the accumulated adaptive memory and see what happened. We disconnected it for three hours. After reconnecting, we tested the Viper again. All the symptoms, including the interference with the AM radio band disappeared. ( The interference with the AM radio band came back the next time I started it up. I believe that it is caused by the stock computer module adaptive memory constantly trying to battle the VEC II overides and tricks.)
I believe that for those of us that use our cars every day, the adaptive memory keeps trying to get around the VEC II or, if you have a split second box, the split second box, and, in the process certain symptoms start to appear. Since in my case, the symptoms did not really effect anything vital until more than 2000 miles went by, I intend to disconnect the OEM computer module about every 1500 miles and wipe the adaptive memory clean. Some of you that are having wierd little symptoms might find the foregoing interesting. If only Dodge would do the right thing and open up the code so we could tune within the OEM module, all of this could be avoided. I, for one, would be willing to pay Dodge a reasonable fee for this type of access. It seems hypocritical for Dodge to be indirectly endorsing supercharging ( See the past Viper magazine article about Paxton.), while refusing to release the computer programming which would allow a safer and more efficient tune. A change in policy regarding this issue would be a wonderful gesture of solidarity with the Viper Nation by Dodge.

 

[Bobpantax]

Anyone else have these issues or similar ones?

 

[Schulmann]

Any dealer can reprogram the factory PCM ... with the right software: www.obd2.com (Ease software)

My guess for your troubles:

1. Maybe you have an issue with grounding.

2. Your PCM is "cooked".
I had a trouble around 5000rpm with a PCM manufactured in 2000: Car was running way too rich and ignition broke up.

The supercharger puts a little more stress on the engin that requires the PCM to work "harder". If your PCM is not 100% perfect then you get similar issues. Finally I had to buy a new PCM (manufactured in 1997). Now my car is running perfectly.

3. Check also your plugs. They all have to have the same coloration. If your injector offsets are not set perfectly you can get similar troubles.


4. Sometimes the SC requires retunning. Ask Sean to have a look on your car. I am sure he will be happy to help you. He helped me a lot to isolate the trouble with my PCM.

 

[Bobpantax]

I do not think that you understand how the VEC II works. It tricks the OEM PCM into doing what needs to be done. However, since the OEM PCM has adaptive memory it continuously learns and eventually starts to figure out the tricks. This is true with the VEC II and the Split Second unit and most tuners admit it. It is also why AEM developed their PCM. The fact that everything was corrected when I, in essence, rebooted my PCM, proves the truth of what I am saying. However, assuming for argument sake that there is a grounding issue, Sean put in the system himself after I drove the car the 370 miles up there to have him do it. So if the ground is screwed up, Sean needs to drive or fly down to Miami and fix the problem or tell me where to go to get it fixed in Miami and pay for the fix. If the roles were reversed, I would do so. The PCM is the stock 1999 PCM.

 

[HOdbleFman]

I don't think the VEC II "tricks" the stock PCM. Instead of intercepting the signal from the sensors and modifying them to achieve a desired value before the information enters the PCM, the VEC II receives the outputs of the PCM and then modifies the injector pulse and ignition curve based on user inputs and using the PCM outputs as a reference. At least that is how I understood it when I had it on my car.

 

[Sean Roe]

VEC2

Hi Bob,
Your interpretation of how the VEC2 works and interacts with the stock PCM is incorrect.
There are no tricks and no battles between the two.
The VEC2 is on the output side of the PCM, save the crank sensor input, where a Split Second FTC1 and some other controllers alter sensor voltage inputs to the stock PCM in order to change injector offset.
The VEC2 has its own injector drivers and runs the engine.
The adaptive capability of the stock PCM is a good thing in the case of the VEC2. You want a system that will alter injector pulses through different climates and temperatures so the closed loop air / fuel ratio stays correct, even with larger injectors and forced induction.
If the adaptive of the stock PCM gets to the end of its range, the PCM will turn on a check engine light, indicating either a problem (like a bad oxygen sensor) or the offset for the larger injectors needs to be changed in order to keep the PCM adaptive closer to center.
You mentioned in the top post that the adptives were "sky high". Do you know what the adptive memory values in your car were before disconnecting the PCM? The main ones of interest are the long term fuel trim bank 1 and bank 2, sensor 1. The adptives can be changed by altering the settings in the VEC2 fuel options page, if needed.
The factory PCM will not cause AM radio interference when adptives are changing. The VEC2 will not cause AM radio interference.
Is there AM radio interference with the engine on (key in Acc)? If it's clear with the engine off and only has it with the engine running, it's more likely the aftermarket plug wires and / or a poor radio ground is the cause.
Vipers, and Dodges in general, have poor grounding systems that can be improved upon.
Let us know if you need further assistance.
Regards,
Sean

 

[Schulmann]

Re: VEC2

Bob,

What plugs do you use in your car ?
Could you check the exact type of the plugs (those small letters on the side of the plugs) ?

 

[davem]

Re: VEC2

Hello,
You need to tweak the VEC 2. When we tune a car with the VEC the goal is to get the adaptives to be very low, thus the computer is happy.

Find someone who have the VEC software and knows what they are doing, or take it back to ROE and they can tweak it in for you.

good luck,
Dave.

 

[Bobpantax]

Re: VEC2

Thank you for the feedback Sean. Please evaluate and respond to the following:

1. The radio worked perfectly on all bands, including the AM band, before the supercharger install.
2. The AM band works perfectly with the engine off.
3. The adverse symptoms that occurred for the first time Saturday - the engine started to break up at WOT at 5000 RPM - were completely eliminated by disconnecting the PCM for three hours and then reconnecting it. As we mentioned to you Saturday, the engine was running very rich when it happened - you could smell it when the windows were open.
4. The MSD wires were on the car for months prior to the supercharger install and everything worked perfectly.
5. You mention: "The crank sensor input, where a Split Second FTC1 and some other controllers alter sensor voltage inputs to the stock PCM in order to change injector offset." If injector offset is incorrect because of PCM/VEC II interaction issues, wouldn't the engine run rich? Couldn't it then break up at WOT?
6. I am a firm believer in "the obvious cause" being the problem. The fact that the problem cleared up when we disconnected the PCM for three hours is clear and convincing evidence of a PCM/VEC II interaction of some kind that takes time to occur. My research on the stock PCM adaptive memory shows that the adaptive memory, over time, gradually builds up small bits of information and, eventually, consolidates some of this information. In my case it took about three months and 2000 miles.
7. Unfortunately, I did not record the ADV's.
8. The bottom line is that if you think that there is a way to fix the problem permanently other than by periodically disconnecting the PCM, please spring for the bucks and take your overworked spouse on a trip to Miami. Bring your trusty tuning computer, etc. and fix the problem. In the alternative, tell me who in Miami has the knowledge and the skill to do so and make arrangements for me to bring the car to that person - at your cost. If you had not personally installed the system, I would have a different view, but, as you know, you did install the system and I think it is only fair that you fix it or have it fixed at your cost. Thank you in advance for your reply.

 

[Bobpantax]

Re: VEC2

Waiting for a reply.

 

[Supercharged Vipermad]

Re: VEC2

Waiting for a reply.

Just call him.

I could go on to say that my Roe Blower works fine (lasts a long time, drains to the bilge....Navy joke)...but I won't. For MANY years I have loved watching people post messages like you just did..."Waiting for reply" as if Sean (or ANYONE ELSE) sits around and monitors this board! LOL!! If you did call him, good on ya!! If you didn't...expect more crap!

 

[Schulmann]

Re: VEC2

If you use your car in Miami to commute it is likely that your car heats up. Then you let the car sit for 3 hours and it cools down. So maybe you think that it is related to the PCM but likely it is heat related.

Again check your plugs that's easy. They will tell you what's going on.

AM radio trouble indicates an ignition issue (like in older cars). Are you using resistor type plugs ?

 

[Sean Roe]

Re: VEC2

*** Ding, Ding, Ding, We have a winner! ***

Very good Schulmann!

When Bob called in on Saturday, I suggested they pull the plug gap down to 0.028" as what he described indicated an ignition break up. The subsequent fuel smell was from the lack of ignition.

When Vipers get hot, the ability of the ignition system to spark a heavily pressurized cylinder degrades. There's no coil pack upgrade for the Viper (MSD has one for the 4 cylinder pack, but not the 6), so we're stuck with upgrades such as better wires and altering plug gap / type to get better ignition.

A few people on here have switched to the Iridium plugs and have been very happy with them. The manufacturers suggest them for use in forced induction applications and with water / methanol injection, when an ignition system is more heavily taxed. You can read a bit about them on the net at both Kenne Bell's website and Snow's.

As Bob's car had cooled down for a few hours, the chassis grounds and the ignition system were in better shape to run the engine and not have AM radio static.

Bob,
As suggested above, if you need to reach me, the best way is by phone and e-mail (you knew that). I'm available by phone all day and check e-mail twice a day. I only have a few minutes in the morning to check out the VCA site.

To improve the ignition system, perform one of the following; pull the plug gap down, put in stock plugs with a gap of 0.028" or use the Iridium spark plugs. As you will be making a change to the ignition system, it may also reduce your AM radio static.

If you need your PCM adaptives altered, just send me the cards along with what the long term values were. If there's no check engine light, it's not out of range. The range is -32.8% to +32.8% for both long term and short term. Fuel trim adaptive is in effect during closed loop operation only.

Also, Dave said he suggested you add a ground wire from the radio case to the transmission tunnel a couple months ago. As he was in the high end car stereo business, I would have to go along with his suggestion as I don't have much experience there.

Regards,
Sean

 

[Bobpantax]

Re: VEC2

Hi Sean. Thanks for your post. I do not think that heat was the problem; however, I am willing to implement any reasonable fixes that seem logically related to the problem. The only issues are who does the work, cost and who bears the cost. You have email. Since the main purpose of the post was to see if others had similar problems and how they dealt with them, I would still like to hear from others on the issue. I have already heard from some who have posted and some by email. As for you and I, I agree that we should keep it to email and phone.

 

[dansauto]

Re: VEC2

Sean,
you are correct about the coil pack upgrade. I searched all over for something as I thought I was getting spark blow out. Your the master of innovation, why dont you get someone (MSD) to make us high output coil packs? I thought about using the capaciter type plug wires, but I dont think they will help much. BTW- thanks for all your help with the vec 2. My car runs better than it ever did. I street tuned it with my wideband (kept it on the rich side) and it holds 12 psi of boost scaring the h3ll out of me!! The VEC 2 is the best tuning system you can put on a gen1.

I dont think adaptive memory is this guys problem. How can the pcm accumulate adapative if the VEC 2 is only altering the injector ouput pulse? I think he may by slightly correct with the split second as that alters the map signal to the PCM. And who listens to AM radio?

 

[Sean Roe]

Re: VEC2

Grab a cup of coffee or a soda before you begin reading...

I just went back and re-read my reply after getting 6 e-mails from Bob. I'd like to make it clear that I'm not a radio expert and our shop is not Roe Radios, it's Roe Racing. I do not know the reason for his radio static and have only offered the advice of Dave in our shop. Let it be known that I do not think that the radio static is actually caused by the car being warm / hot, but rather ignition noise. The ignition break up may have been a byproduct of heat.

Since there are others on this board who could help Bob with his AM radio static, I'll give all the information I have. It's a normal six year old '99 Viper with a Supercharger. No grounds were touched during the installation of the blower. The only aftermarket ignition parts are the MSD spark plugs wires and Bosch FR8DC Super spark plugs. The MSD wires were on the car when it arrived. He did not buy them from Roe Racing, so I have no idea the age or if they are in good shape or not as we had nothing to do with them.
I have not heard his AM radio static myself, but maybe Bob can shed some light on it if someone can ask him the right questions. Two months or more ago, Dave advised him to see a radio shop and have a ground wire installed from the radio to the transmission tunnel, which he has not done to my knowledge. If anyone can help Bob out, I'd appreciate it as I have a few projects to finish and diagnosing AM radio static is not one of them.

In regard to the engine, that's where I can help. Bob said in his e-mails to me "Thanks for the email and the following input. The problem is that the car was not particularly hot and it never did this before. It has also not done it since even after it was hot. ( Tried it Sunday after a few acceleration runs.)". Then in another e-mail "I drive in stop and go traffic almost every day and the car never did before what it did Saturday. Note that I hit 5000 RPM at WOT at least three times a week in first and/or second gear. I tried it Sunday, Monday and yesterday - no problem.". Then in another "I spoke to John at NGK tech support. He recommended BKR5EIX, stock number 6341 iridium plugs with a .032 gap. He said that these are for a rich fuel environment and should do the job for my supercharged Viper. DO YOU AGREE? I ordered a set of PDI Livewires - the best sparkplug wire set made to replace my 8.5 MSD set. If these changes do not work, or make the problem worse, I will be speaking with you further about it.". Then finally in the last e-mail I received from Bob, "In view of your belief that the WOT problem is due to a heat problem and that per your post better wires and plugs should correct the problem, I am investing the money in the parts. I hope that your post was correct and that mine was incorrect. Otherwise, we will have to discuss the situation in more detail at a future date. Below is the info on the wires. Are you going to pay for the labor to put in the new wires and plugs? I am also going to have all of the existing ground connections checked to see if one of your people inadvertently left one off during the install. If it is found that a ground was left off, I will expect you to pay for the labor incurred to detect and fix the problem.".

So, Bob wants me to pay for the changing of his spark plug wires. Not because I sold or installed them as I didn't do either, but because I suggested it might help in a post on the Viper board. That's quite a revelation for me. Now that I see that's acceptable, I can go after all those friends who recommended restaurants that I didn't end up liking as much as they said I would, getting my gas and mileage expenses paid back to me as a result of their recommendation.
Hmm, Ok Bob, how about this. Since you said the car was running fine before Saturday and since Saturday (your exact words), I suggest you do nothing and just drive the car like you were doing before and since, but note if the problem occurs again.

Someone please help Bob with him AM radio static. He doesn't seem to be acting on Dave's advice and I have no other input for him as it may be held against me.

Regards,
Sean

 

[Bad_Byte]

Re: VEC2

I'm certainly no expert in the field of electronics. I only spent the first 25 years of my career in aviation electronics. I've spent the last 15 in the computer industry. I have to think the plug wires are the culprit. Realizing that the wires were not changed with the installation I imagine they were moved and perhaps repositioned. This will sometimes make older wires susceptible to jumping to ground and its not even noticable for the most part. The EMF behind 40K volts is substantial, if the insulation is defective in any location it could cause an invisible grounding of the spark.

I'd ask Bob to run his hand all up and down the wires while holding on to a ground to see if there is any escaping voltage from the plug wires. (OK DON'T DO THAT I'M JUST KIDDING) Seriously I'd try new plug wires. I've had great luck with Magnacor wires, the problem now is they are almost impossible to get.

With AM even atmospheric changes (sun spots) can cause static in a weaker signal, so maybe its not even the plug wires but the weak signal combined with a hotter engine compartment and better tuning.

My vote is either sun spots or plug wires.

 

[Schulmann]

Re: VEC2

I'd ask Bob to run his hand all up and down the wires while holding on to a ground to see if there is any escaping voltage from the plug wires. (OK DON'T DO THAT I'M JUST KIDDING) Seriously I'd try new plug wires. I've had great luck with Magnacor wires, the problem now is they are almost impossible to get.

You shouldn't have said that.
You are now liable !!

 

[Ulysses]

Re: VEC2

Put the stock plug wires back on and see if there is a change on both issues.

 

[Bugeater]

Re: VEC2

If nobody else is corroborating your problems (crappy AM reception and WOT stumble) after a ROE install, and the general consensus is that its probably not due to the ROE install, then my advice is to START LOOKING ELSEWHERE.

And no, I wont reimburse you, or discuss this situation at a later date if it costs you some cash to look elsewhere.

AM radio....LOL.

 

[Joseph Dell]

Re: VEC2

Who listens to AM radio anyway...

Actually, when I replaced the external fuel pump on my SC set-up, I ended up with some radio noise. Still have it, actually, on the FM band. I didn't check AM (sorry... in my part of the world we don't use that).

Anyway, point is that when the car is in the key on engine off position, there is no static. When the car starts, I get the stereo whine. When I pull the fuse on the fuel pump, the problem goes away. I wonder what the problem is?!?!

I'll fix it eventually... Or I'll check for bad grounds or I'll install a filter or two... That will usually fix this type of stuff.

Sean - I think you many have a new business idea... Roe Radios ! I was LMAO!!!

JD

 

[Bobpantax]

Re: Statues Available

I am glad that this thread brought some humor into your lives. In times like these humor is a good thing. By the way, I think that Jon B has a life size ceramic statue of Sean available for purchase. It is titled "Seanid". Since I understand that Sean only has one miracle to go before sainthood, you better get one now before the price increase. On a more serious note, the MSD wires are 17 months old. Since my Viper has a 180 degree thermostat and a front fascia air duct, I seriously doubt that what happened had anything to do with heat since the drive to my dealer is all highway driving. I would still like to hear from more of you who have a Roe supercharger and use it as a daily driver. I think that comparing our experiences with the system is useful. Thanks to all of you who communicated with me privately. Your comments were helpful and informative.

 

[Bugeater]

Re: Statues Available

If people are communicating with you privately and the contents are "helpful and informative" then please post it, because if you dont it remains ambiguous as to what you really want this thread to accomplish...other than "hey, can you help me and by the way, if it doesnt work please send me a check..."

BTW, I dont get the statues joke. Its a joke, right?

 

[Russ M]

Re: Statues Available

Bobpantax,

You said "6. I am a firm believer in "the obvious cause" being the problem."

Perhaps it is time you live by your words and fix your first 2 most obvious problems.

1)Spark plug wires
2)Spark plugs/Gap

Despite what some believe when you modify a car you will start to develop certain problems, you need to learn to roll with the punches and follow the advice of experts.

If you do not and insist on asking for advice but not taking it when it is given the experts will stop to help.

When you replace the obvious things, and if you still have a problem then this can be taken to the next level.

 

[Bobpantax]

Re: Statues Available

1. Yes, It was a joke but requires some knowledge of art and religious history.
2. I have shared all the data that the conditions of the private communication allow me to share - that is why they chose to communicate privately.
3. I am listening to experts. Believe it or not there are some that do not agree with Sean's diagnosis including the experts that fixed the problem last Saturday by disconnecting the PCM for three hours. They disagreed with Sean's diagnosis then and still do.
4.Sean never responded to point number five of my May 17th, 2:30P.M. post. An answer would be helpful.
5. Guys - the request for reimbursement of labor cost was based on the belief that if $9000.00 of work is done and something does not work properly, it is only reasonable for the person who caused the problem to fix the problem. Prior to the supercharger installation my perfromance goals were outlined in an email to Sean. They were pretty specific. He responded in an email that he could meet those goals. Two of those goals were reliability and no fuel management problems. I specifically pointed out that the car was a daily driver in Miami. ( Since Sean lives in Florida, he is aware of the Miami heat and the Miami Heat.) I was not told before the install that there would be any ignition or fuel management problems that I should expect to develop and have to cure out of my own pocket. The money is not the issue. Responsibility is the issue. The experts who corrected the problem Saturday believe that it is a problem caused by the interaction of the stock PCM and the VEC II. I do not see anything wrong with trying to gather more data and resolve the difference of opinion. In the meantime, if the roles were reversed, I would not be making fun of my customer. I would say. "Check it out. If it turns out that it was my fault, I will pay for the fix. If not, I am sorry that you had the inconvenience. Good luck."

 

[Sean Roe]

Bob is wearing me out.....

Good lord....

Bob said "4.Sean never responded to point number five of my May 17th, 2:30P.M. post. An answer would be helpful.".
Bob, I've answered that in the replies, though you don't seem to either understand or accept it. The VEC2 is not altering voltage inputs and is not tricking anything on the PCM. Adaptive memory values are not active at open loop WOT.
I'm not making fun of you Bob, but when you ask me for advice and don't use it, then ask me to pay for trying it, accuse me of causing AM radio static and a once in 2,000 miles stumble that you have not been able to repeat since, how do you want me to respond?
Are you going to stop listening and ever take some action at getting your AM radio static resolved?
I warranty the Supercharger and the work we did.
The spark plug wires that you bought and had installed elsewhere are not covered by the Supercharger warranty.
Your AM radio reception is not covered by the Supercharger warranty.
Your car is over six years old.
None of its non-Supercharger parts are covered by the Supercharger warranty.
If you have a problem specifically with a part we installed or sold, send the part in for inspection / repair / replacement or make arrangements to bring the car in for an inspection.
If you bring your car to us and problems / maintenance items are found that are not related to work we performed or parts we installed, I will add to your diagnostic bill all the time you've taken up from me working on other peoples cars due to these e-mails, posts and phone calls. I think about 5 additional hours should cover it. What's the hourly rate at your law firm?

Regards,
Sean

 

[dansauto]

Re: Statues Available

I am listening to experts. Believe it or not there are some that do not agree with Sean's diagnosis including the experts that fixed the problem last Saturday by disconnecting the PCM for three hours. They disagreed with Sean's diagnosis then and still do.
The experts who corrected the problem Saturday believe that it is a problem caused by the interaction of the stock PCM and the VEC II.

Can your "experts" prove this? I dont think they or you understand what Sean is saying. The VEC 2 only works on the output side. I does not trick the computer. Unless it is wired incorrectly or faulty, there is no way it could be effecting the stock PCM. The stock PCM CAN NOT change acqurie adaptives if the tuning is correct. Ask 1Tony1 he is quite and expert with the Vec2. I am sure Sean will look it over and if they did something wrong or the unit is defective they will replace it at N/C. Or have your experts fix it and dispute this in court. There is alot to tuning a viper (i know from personal experiance) Your experts are trying to oversimply the issue by blaming something they dont understand.

 

[Bugeater]

Re: Statues Available

"I have shared all the data that the conditions of the private communication allow me to share - that is why they chose to communicate privately." Your experts havent shared ****, thats why I asked the question 2 posts up from this quote. God this post is annoying.

For the love of god please yank the experts out from behind that bush just beyond the grassy knoll and tell them to explain to us (in non-contractual, robot-like verbage) just what exactly they think the VEC2 has to do with this...

Or heres an idea: Post it yourself. Just dont write the experts names and times of their responses (jesus) and simply provide their input to the discussion. It just might help, and they probably wont sue you.

 

[Joseph Dell]

Re: Statues Available

uh... has anyone thought about taking the VEC2 out to see if that helps? you can run the car w/o it... that will at least tell you if the vec2 has _anything_ to do with it...

i wouldn't boost w/o it, but it takes all of 5 min to pull it out electrically... same time it takes to put in.

JD

 

[Bobpantax]

Re: Response to the Hostility

Sean, the question raised in paragraph five is not answered in any of your replies. Please try to calm down and answer this one last question then we can all let this dead and wrotting horse slide in to the oblivion of the archives. In response to some of the other posts: One of the two experts involved was driving the car (I was with him) when the problem occurred at 5000 RPM at WOT. The irony of the situation was that I was trying to impress him with my Roe supercharged Viper,and ,in part, get more business for Sean. He was not impressed. He had previously done a great deal of research on aftermarket supercharger installations in Vipers and was very skeptical of their reliability - particularly with respect to fuel management. When the problem occurred, he noticed that the car was running very rich. So rich that we could not keep the windows open the smell was so bad. This is after I already sent the cards back to Sean once to make it a little less rich to reduce some of the decel popping.( According to Sean the popping on decel is normal so do not call him and complain. After all there is nothing wrong with a free pop.) At any rate, he did not agree that the gap on the plugs was the problem. He immediately, based on his experience with other supercharged vipers ( not Roe), believed that it was an adaptive memory/Vec II problem. He then said that this made a lot more sense than the plug theory based on the fuel smell. He also did not believe it was a wire problem. The bottom line is that the car was not hot when the incident happened and disconnecting the PCM and wiping out the adaptive memory on it is what got rid of the problem - at least for now. The two experts I am referring to have more than twenty years of combined experience with all aspects of the Viper including its heavy modification. Through the interest and financing of one of their customers they spent many hours and many dollars trying to develop a programmable PCM without success. (Note that even the AEM PCM requires you to keep the stock PCM to work in conjuntion with the alarm module.) So, rather than impressing him, he asked me why I had not just spent the money on regular engine work which, in his mind, would have provided nearly as much or as much power with more reliability and no fuel smell. To say the least, I was embarrassed. My response to him was that whether he was right or wrong on this point, there is something intangibly special about the idea of a supercharged Viper. I think that all of us agree on that.