OEM module Adaptive Memory/VEC II - Problem/Fix

[Schulmann]

Re: Response to the Hostility

Sean, the question raised in paragraph five is not answered in any of your replies.

BOB, I don't know if you deserve my help or any help. Because you are digging into more and more troubles and I think nobody wants to help you. But here we go and this is the last time I try to help you.

Did you read post #3 answer #2 ?
Because we had exactly the same trouble with a Viper at 5000rpm as you described in question #5. And the fix was to change the PCM. Some people also advised to put additional grounds on the sensors which helped but didn't elliminate the troubles with the ignition. Yes this Viper was running 100%perfectly without supercharger. But some parts in this stupid PCM were made in a 3rd world country to save a couple of $$$ to Chrysler and the PCM didn't like the additional charge on the electrical system.

Now I even managed to find the dyno sheet on this trouble. 100% same sympthomes than yours: Viper running way too rich and no more ignition from 5000rpm. Sorry but I don't listen to AM radio so I have no idea if AM frequency had statics but next time I have a similar issue I will listen to it. Once PCM was change this Viper turned into a rocket.


Now if you think that I just made this dyno sheet on photoshop check this video. And espectially watch the last few seconds when Viper revs 5000rpm in 4th gear. You will see the smoke coming out the exhaust and the hesitation of the engin. Yes this is a PCM issue and not a VEC2 issue.


And all this help is FREE for the Viper community ...

 

[Bobpantax]

Re: Please provide more data

Thanks. I was aware of your post and the issue but I thought that it was only with respect to the 2000 to 2002 cars. What year was the car shown in the graph? Was the PCM the same year? Was the car superharged? Sean has indicated on his web sight that some of the later cars - 2000 through 2002 - needed a different PCM. Mine is a 1999 - the best year - the last year of the forged pistons and the lumpier cam. Did the problem in the car represented by the dyno chart go away when you disconnected the PCM for a while or only when you replaced the PCM? Since my WOT problem and strong fuel smell went away after the disconnect, I am curious. By the way, what does "digging into more and more troubles" mean? I thought one of the main purposes of this chat forum was to dig into problems and try to figure out solutions. If I am wrong, I apologize and stand corrected.

 

[Joseph Dell]

Re: Please provide more data

DOES THE RADIO PROBLEM GO AWAY WITH THE VEC2 DISCONNECTED????????????

 

[99 R/T 10]

Re: Please provide more data

Thanks. I was aware of your post and the issue but I thought that it was only with respect to the 2000 to 2002 cars. What year was the car shown in the graph? Was the PCM the same year? Was the car superharged? Sean has indicated on his web sight that some of the later cars - 2000 through 2002 - needed a different PCM. Mine is a 1999 - the best year - the last year of the forged pistons and the lumpier cam. Did the problem in the car represented by the dyno chart go away when you disconnected the PCM for a while or only when you replaced the PCM? Since my WOT problem and strong fuel smell went away after the disconnect, I am curious. By the way, what does "digging into more and more troubles" mean? I thought one of the main purposes of this chat forum was to dig into problems and try to figure out solutions. If I am wrong, I apologize and stand corrected.

Try a 96-98 computer, you might find this will fix it. Call Larry Macedo, I think he sells the 96's.

 

[dansauto]

Re: Please provide more data

can we let this thread die, His last response was pure nonsense. I know oi at least three reputable tuners producing cars in excess of 1000 hp that have had good results with the vec 2. Your "expert" has no clue what he is talking about.

 

[dansauto]

Re: Please provide more data

5. You mention: "The crank sensor input, where a Split Second FTC1 and some other controllers alter sensor voltage inputs to the stock PCM in order to change injector offset." If injector offset is incorrect because of PCM/VEC II interaction issues, wouldn't the engine run rich? Couldn't it then break up at WOT? Ok I'll take a stab at this. If the VEC 2 does not alter any sigal to the PCM. If the PCM is reading inputs from the O2 that are in line with factory setting it will not try and compesate (richen air fuel mixture, retard timing, ect) So if the car was tuned properly the vec2 can not cause adaptive issues with the PCM unless the PCM was not functioning 100% to begin with. The split second alters the signal from the map sensor for you to adjust the air fuel. It falsifies a signal to the PCM. This may cause adapative issues to the PCM but only if other sensors are disagreeing with the MAP. Also not at WOT and until the motor is warm your car does not even use the signals from the senors, but falls back on the preprogrammed code. The VEC 2 works witht this as if only alters output signals and even in open loop can compesate for larger injectors.

 

[Bobpantax]

Re: Responses from another thread that are relevant

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Dimitrios
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Reged: 11/18/03
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Anyone Use An AEM instaed of a VEC 2?
#545309 - 05/20/05 11:56 PM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



anyone use an AEM instead of a VEC2 in their GEN II's and what are the advantages over VEC2? is it worth the money?? thanks

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Russ M
SoCal VCA Member


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Re: Anyone Use An AEM instaed of a VEC 2?
#545324 - 05/21/05 01:08 AM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



There are way too many benefits to list, that is not to say that the Vec 2 is a bad unit. Its like comparing a Vec 1 with a Vec 2, if that makes any sense to you.


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jp
Viper Owner


Reged: 10/04/00
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Re: Anyone Use An AEM instaed of a VEC 2?
#545330 - 05/21/05 01:22 AM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



The VEC2 and a AEM unit can't be compared. The VEC is a gadget that manipulate the stock ECU (been using it for years) Good enough in most aplications. The AEM is a system that replaces the stock ECU and let you take controll over the engine.

--------------------
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HOdbleFman
Enthusiast


Reged: 09/21/03
Posts: 248
Loc: Hurricane, WV

Re: Anyone Use An AEM instaed of a VEC 2?
#545372 - 05/21/05 03:39 AM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



Get the AEM. It's like Russ said, the VEC 2 limits your capability to tune the car. Of course it's more difficult and time consuming to learn to tune, but if you want complete control of the engine, the AEM is a great option.

--------------------
98 GTS


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[Sean Roe]

Re: Responses from another thread that are relevant

Bob,
I don't think that I or anyone else here is expressing "hostility" toward you, but instead some minor frustration. It seems that no matter what anyone here offers for input and suggestions, you've made up your mind to believe your local "experts".

How about you just do what you said you were going to do in the first post, disconnect the PCM every 1,500 miles and call it a day. If you want to go a step further, take JD's advice and start the engine with the VEC2 disconnected to see if the AM radio noise is still there at idle.

You posted this about your conversation between you and the expert “he asked me why I had not just spent the money on regular engine work which, in his mind, would have provided nearly as much or as much power with more reliability and no fuel smell. To say the least, I was embarrassed.” I deal with dealership "experts" every week. Some are open minded to understanding aftermarket parts and some are not. A good technician is willing to look at the whole picture and not narrow his vision to blaming what he doesn't understand. Your car has no cats, so it will have some fuel smell, from idle all the way to WOT where it was tuned to an AF ratio of 11.8-12.0:1. It takes fuel to make power, forced induction or naturally aspirated. Generally, the HP per dollar ratio is more in favor of forced induction than naturally aspirated when it comes to “big gain” mods. He got one over on you because you didn’t have enough experience or information to retort properly. Unfortunately for you, he knew this.

When I was doing driving instruction at the Justin Bell Viper School, we used to run into guys that just wouldn’t listen to our input on how to go faster / improve lap times. After a while of trying to help them, you quit trying and let them screw up as much as they want to. Ultimately, letting them learn the wrong way due to their own ignorance. I sure am glad I haven’t run into anybody like that since then…..

Regards,
Sean

 

[Bobpantax]

Re: I have hi flow cats - new response please.

Thanks for the feedback Sean. You are confusing my car with someone else's car. My car has high flow cats.( At least it did when I brought it up to you. I have not checked to see if they are still there since the exhausts are wrapped with insulation. The removal of the hi flow cats was not wanted or authorized at the time of the supercharger install.) Why did you think that it had no cats? When you redid the cards to reduce the popping, did you assume that there were no cats? Please clarify. Now I am more concerned than I was before. Thanks.

 

[STUGOTS]

Re: Responses from another thread that are relevant

I just have 3 things to say after reading this entire (long a$$) thread.

1. I just put the iridium plugs in my car and they work great IMO (I'd try them like Sean suggested)

2. im no expret but it MAY be a heat issue and in that case you may want to try an fluidyne radiator/watter wetter.

3. as far as the AM static goes, I had static on Fm in my car and I called Dave at Roe racing (he mentioned in a convo that he used to do high end systems and hes ALWAYS willing to help) and he told me about the ground wire and BOOM perfect sounding systemm so I'd listen to his advice.

 

[VIPR GTS]

Re: Response to the Hostility

After nealy 10,000 mile with my Roe S/C I have not incountered any radio interferance. Although the weather here in Ohio can seem on occasion to change the actual tune on the motor that is needed, my expierence with the Roe S/C and Vec2 are all very positive. Understanding the tuning capabilities of the Vec2 and learning to use those capabilities can keep your car running perfectly. Can there be problems, yes, do they sound Roe related, no.

 

[Shelby3]

Re: I have hi flow cats - new response please.

Thanks for the feedback Sean. You are confusing my car with someone else's car. My car has high flow cats.( At least it did when I brought it up to you. I have not checked to see if they are still there since the exhausts are wrapped with insulation. The removal of the hi flow cats was not wanted or authorized at the time of the supercharger install.) Why did you think that it had no cats? When you redid the cards to reduce the popping, did you assume that there were no cats? Please clarify. Now I am more concerned than I was before. Thanks.

Bob, My car had far more popping with the high flow cats than it does now with no cats. I would bet you still have the high flow cats in the car.

 

[Sean Roe]

Re: I have hi flow cats - new response please.

Thanks for the feedback Sean. You are confusing my car with someone else's car. My car has high flow cats.( At least it did when I brought it up to you. I have not checked to see if they are still there since the exhausts are wrapped with insulation. The removal of the hi flow cats was not wanted or authorized at the time of the supercharger install.) Why did you think that it had no cats? When you redid the cards to reduce the popping, did you assume that there were no cats? Please clarify. Now I am more concerned than I was before. Thanks.

I'm at home and doing yardwork before the place becomes a jungle, but did come in for lunch and to catch up on the latest in the AM radio static thread.
Bob, I've got quick books backed up here at the house. I thought you had no cats, but may have been wrong as I see that we did no exhaust work on the car, only added the insulation in the sills. I don't know what you have for cats. We didn't put them in or remove them. But, I can tell for sure 100%, they, like your radio, are not covered by the Supercharger warranty.

Regards,
Sean

WAR WEEDS!