Ok, so i finally drove a GTS and here is what i found..

[AJ]

in no particular order.. i am trying to be as objective as i can.... now keep in mind that i have had some really really ergonomically bad cars so it is not like i am trying to compare it to the bmw.. (a lotus esprit comes to mind)

1. getting in the car is hard. i wacked my head pretty good on the a-pillar..

2. once inside the seat is too loose for me (and i am not that skinny- 6 feet at 190 pounds)... it is also too soft on the back, you press the clutch and your back goes 2 inches back into the cushion. playing with the little lumbar pump thing made no difference.

3. pedals. i understand that tranny is in the way, but the way the pedals are on the left is getting some time getting used to. also, the lack of deadpedal is bringing up the question what to do with my left foot

i put it on the floor in front of the pedal, but i am not sure that was the best solution. the good thing is that at least the pedals move back and forth. since there is no telescoping wheel, this feature is essential.

4. visability. as i said- i am 6 feet tall so i consider myself normal height. well, looking forward is not very shall we say rewarding. but i guess i can get used to it. looking backward is a futile effort. however, i am used to it and it doesnt bother me.

5. quaility. is a joke. the materials used in the cockpit are pathetic and dodge should be ashamed of itself. for that alone i consider the viper seriously overpriced- about 10-15k.

6. drive. mixed bag. the straight line accelleration is good (i am spoiled- i've had few 600+ hp cars before), but not scary. the 500 pounds of torque are not really in your face until you hit 3000 rpms or so. then it is good

turn in is awsome and i liked the tail-happy nature of the oversteering viper. the only concern is that when it lets go, it lets go instantly. no warning. maybe i am not tuned to the car, but this is what i noticed. if i induce the oversteer, control is excellent. if "it" induces it - it is very abrput and without a warning. as some people here said- the snake will bite you

maximum braking is good, but modulation is kinda vague and i understand why some people get aftermarket brake setups.

7. pen*is extension factor- it is hard to beleive that almost 10 years after its intro the car still turns heads like nothing else... i will leave it at that. i dont care much about it, but i guess it is there...

8. sound. they totally got it wrong. that and the even number of cylinders per manifold makes for one angry sounding ups truck.. i see why people go to aftermarket catbacks (besides the few hp)

the verdict- me likes the snake

see ya in the snake pit

alex
00 m5
few other cars




<FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by AJ on 02-28-2002 at 07:52 AM</font>

 

[Acatala7]

Alex aren't you the troll form LS1.com that likes to brag on and on about your M5?

 

[BlackACR]

Sure you could drive that M5 all day. But, you may fall asleep from the boredom.

 

[AJ]

i am that person, but with close to 2000 posts on ls1.com i hardly call myself a troll

i am a member #114 (or so) there and how they have 20k+ members. i used to have a modified ls1 and after i sold it i never let go that board (you have to agree-some entertaining stuff is going on there every now and then)

besides, bragging has nothing to do with it.. i think. i every now and then post a kill story in their kill section. yes, the m5 is faster than a regular unmodified c5- especially at speeds.
i post those because they are close races and people like close races. if i raced a viper and i lost i would not post it because with 50 hp more and 700 pounds less the viper is supposed to win. now, if i won, i would post it because it is interesting. thats all

trolling is ******* people off for no particular reason. i tried to be objective here, and finally i said i like the viper and especially now when they have abs i will purchase one...

hope this clarifies my position...

alex
00 m5
few other cars


<FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by AJ on 02-28-2002 at 08:28 AM</font>

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

I would expect this kind of post by someone with an M5.

How can you speak of no torque till 3K Do you ***** this much about the Bimmer?

Craig

 

[BlackACR]

A Z06 is a regular C5. In your wildest dream a M5 could not touch that car. I have seen them at the street races and tracks getting drug by stock Z06's with paper plates. BMW does some good brain washing of there customers to think they have a really fast car. A 13.5 at 107 by Road & Track is **** slow in my book.

 

[AJ]

guys, i am not putting down the viper

read what i wrote

i am buying one for god sake. all i tried to do is compare it to other cars i had. i had cars making 500+ tq, and they did feel differently. thats all

blackacr: drive one. the only time you will fall asleep is if you want to do so. you will be nicely surprised.

craig201: first, i am not comparing it to the bmw. they are totally different creatures. the bmw is a car. the viper is a toy. apples to oranges. i know enough not to even think about comparing them. the bimmer has its shortfalls too. it is just that there are very very few for what it is and what it pretends to be. besides, the bimmer has only 350 pounds of torque. all i said is that the 500 pounds of torque should be more "in your face". that doesnt mean they are not there- dont get me wrong, it is just that i thought they will feel differently. maybe i was "let down" because of the long gearing, who knows...

(edited

craig, no no, you got it backwards..

an acr is a regular gts with stiffer suspension and minor intake mods

the z06 is not a regular c5. trust me. my knowledge on the ls1 cars is .. sufficient. the ls6 engine in the 02 z06 is a 405 hp engine (intake,cams,heads,headers,exhaust are different than the ls1 c5). the engine internals are stronger and the engine revs 500 rpms higher. it costs 10k+ more. the car is also lighter. imagine if the acr had 55 hp more and 100 pounds less. and yes, you are correct- i cant win against a z06. nor i will try in the m5. for that purpose i have a 10 sec. streetable car. actually- make that 2. and if you have a really really fast 800+ hp viper i have a slightly modified zx-12r crotch rocket

alex
00 m5
few other cars


<FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by AJ on 02-28-2002 at 09:03 AM</font>

 

[BlackACR]

You may not have compared it to a viper but, you did towards the Vette. My above post stands you would be sent home (ego brused) by a stock Z06 C5. Just stating the facts....

 

[BlackACR]

Apples to Apples. An M5 is not a regular BMW. Heads,Cam,Intake, Big V8. About 20k more

 

[AJ]

agreed. but notice what you said before: "A Z06 is a regular C5". all i said is that it is not so. the regular c5 is 55hp shy of the z06. it is a different car. now, what the m5 is was not part of this argument. for i care it could have been a 250k car. the reason why i brought it up is because it is funny that a 4000 pounds sedan can keep up with a vette. albeit the regular one

i wrote it partially because another member here said you can fall asleep in the m5

to recap:

1. i said i can beat a regular c5 in my m5
2. you said the z06 is a regular vette and i cant touch it
3. i said the z06 is not a regular vette and true- i cant touch it
4. you said the m5 is not a regular bmw too
5. i said that #4 makes no sense for this conversation

did i miss anything?

btw, dont get into the my car costs more therefore should be faster. my both 10 sec. cars cost less than 30k each to build

and if i didnt want them streetable i could prolly get away with 20k each or less..

alex
00 m5
few other cars


<FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by AJ on 02-28-2002 at 09:20 AM</font>

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

You're right. The car is a piece of crap. Don't buy one.

Now go away.

 

[King RT10]

Its funny you say the viper is overpriced yet the manufacture lose money on every one they sell. Maybe they should just give them away.

 

[Bonkers]

AJ,

I for one appreciate the fact that you're expressing you’re opinions so clearly, however it sounds to me that you posted that just to pick a fight. But hey, I’ll bite.

I too agree with your opinions 1,2,7 and am indifferent to 3,4.

I must disagree with your thoughts on quality and performance though. I'd admit the Viper is no BMV or Benz, but the price tag comes along side of its tradition. If I had the money I would gladly pay to have a piece of that roadster feel that I missed due to age than be pampered cruising down the highway.

To have what is probably going to be the last bit of uncomputerized, unadulterated, brute horsepower sitting in my garage is worth more to me than all the Ms and AMGs in the world. Your BMW will eventually fall behind in quality and performance and you'll be forced to upgrade. Soon we’ll all be driving 500hp rice burners. That’s just evolution. They may never build anything like the Viper again. Period.

I hope you enjoy yours while you have it.

Just my .02

 

[AJ]

i did not say it is a piece of crap. i said it has its idiosyncrases, but they are not enough to turn me away from buying one.

i did know that honda loses money on each nsx sold, but i did not know that vipers dont pay off... however, i do know that gm makes at least 10k on each regular c5 they make..

interesting..

bonkers: i totally agree with you. i approached the viper for what it is and those were the things that kinda jumped at me. nothing more nothing else. i posted my finds not to get flak or pick a fight- i posted them to solicit opinions and possibly be swayed in a different direction by the people that drive a viper daily. so far i am getting ppl accusing me of comparing the m5 to the viper although the very first thing i said was that i know enough about cars not to even dare comparing them...

alex
00 m5
few other cars


<FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by AJ on 02-28-2002 at 10:19 AM</font>

 

[Vreracing]

Some of the concerns you brought up are not unusual for people getting in a Viper for the first time. Once you drive it for awhile you get used to a many of the idiosyncrasies. In my opinion BMW's are designed for average drivers trying to drive at speed. They're pretty stable. Vipers on the other hand leave much to the driver.

When you read people experiences it seems like we're talking about two different cars.

 

[KenH]

Unlike the M5, the Viper isn't for everyone which most of us consider a good thing. If your primary focus is on interior build quality, you probably should pass it up and get something like a SC'd Jag. You'll be happier in the long run.

I've always been curious, what does an M5 actually dyno at the rear wheels?

--- Ken

 

[onerareviper]

OK, I think I understand.

1.) You can't get into the car.

2.) You think the seats ****.

3.) You hate the pedal setup.

4.) You think visability *****.

5.) You hate the quality.

6.) You think the driving experience is so-so.

7.) The car gets attention, but you don't care about that.

8.) You hate the exhaust node.

You would have to be a total idiot to buy one. Obviously, this car wasn't design for someone like you. Like Chuck said, "You're right. The car is a piece of crap. Don't buy one.
Now go away".

"GO AWAY KID, YOU BOTHER ME..."

 

[HogWhisperer]

Hope you hurry and buy Viper. Then, maybe you'll troll the LS1 board / BMW / whateve else forums.

Your post seemed trollish to me.

 

[AJ]

onerare,

ok, i think i see the problem. once you stated what you got out of my post, i think i understand.

so let me use your frame to make my self clearer:

1. the car is small inside. so is the lotus. i had a lotus for 4 years. and i sold it for other than ergonimical reasons. so i can rough it out

2. there are aftermarket seats available. the car will not stay even remotely close to stock for a long period of time. yes, i will tear it apart prolly 1 month ofter i buy it. did i mention i am very handy?

3. i think i can get used to it (and so i stated in the first place)

4. i am used to it (and so i stated initially)

5. for i have in mind about this car, it is irrelevant how it will look inside. it was just funny that a 75k car has a cheap interior. the afondmented z06 costs 2/3 of the viper and has 90% of its performance and yet it looks ok inside.

6. when i say "good" for some trait in a car, in most people's books that should be translated - "awsome". as i said- where i come from does matter. i am spoiled in that way (and i said so in my initial post)

7. n/a

8. again, who said the car will remain stock. i just stated the status quo. i think the viper has awsome potential to hit the magic 4 digit hp output and that is exactly why i like it.

to all: in posting my initial observations, i was hoping that this will turn into a constructive open dialog and we all could learn a thing or two about why this car appeals to us. i was hoping to hear different opinions and not statements like "this car is not for you"

i will not go into this, but i would just say that the viper is too civilized compared to some of the rides i've owned or still own... flaming me was the last thing i expected and aimed for...

i guess i will shut up now on the subject as this is not going anywhere i was hoping it would go...

moderators, please lock the topic if you care.

alex
00 m5
few other cars


<FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by AJ on 02-28-2002 at 12:00 PM</font>

 

[Scott J]

I see no need to get combative on this thread - AJ is not the first to knock the Interior and Build Quality of the Viper.

If you want wood grain and plush leather get a Jaguar!

If you want the most comfortable seats then get a Cadillac or Lincoln!

If you want Build Quality then get an Aston Martin [Ford].

I agree, the Viper is one of the most difficult cars to get in and out of, it ***** gas, has the most basic of interiors, and is not the fastest production car in the world. That being said, I absolutely love the car and get exactly what I expected from the day I decided to purchase my GTS outright. It is a brute force that offers the best all-around performance at less than $150k.

 

[BlackACR]

Scott J, no it not the fastest production car. But, it is in the top 5. But as far as price it is the fastest car for the money. I have raced Lamborghini's,Ferrari's,and Porsches's. They don't stand a chance. Some even cost 3 times more than my ACR so, what is your point???

 

[jrkermode]

The Viper is the automotive equivalent of a Harley.

For those who get it, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't get it, no explanation will suffice.

 

[HogWhisperer]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jrkermode:
The Viper is the automotive equivalent of a Harley.

For those who get it, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't get it, no explanation will suffice.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True that.

 

[safireviper]

# 1 Getting in and out of a sports car shouldbe hard.

# 7 would be the same way a ***** on Bikes member would describe their vehicle.

 

[KenH]

OK, after your follow-up posts, you might not be so bad after all, just don't call the Viper CIVILIZED again! (Unless your referring to the '03

).

Take the 'It gets a lot of attention' thing to heart. While you will probaby get used to all the other quirks, if you think this aspect of it will bother you in a negative way, it could be a hassle. I personally enjoy it myself, and at least in my case, it has all been positive.

--- Ken

 

[BlackACR]

The Harley thing kind of works. But, Harley's are a little over priced & a little under powered. I guess I'm to young to understand the Harley thing. Thats why I still ride big bore crotch rockets. Raw power, super handling, just like my viper!!!

 

[MES]

I don't agree with everything AJ said but I do not think he is being unreasonably harsh towards the Viper. Most of his statements are either true or just his subjective opinion. IMHO it's people like AJ that caused the new STR to look very bland and have many extra features not found on earlier cars. The new SRT is bound to appeal to more "regular" people like AJ that can afford a new Viper but were turned off by many of the items in AJ's original post. But at the end of the day he still is going to buy the car, so that's got to tell you something

 

[JimDavis MT 97GTS 650R]

Hay Tony, would you understand the description "850lb organically fired vibrator?"

"We fly em slow and shift em low" and they last forever. My parts guy has been in business since 1903! Some may laugh, but you never throw a used Harley away......pa..ta..do..pa..ta..do..

 

[Vip-RT10]

AJ...i am also 6 ft and 180, but i have yet to bash my head...

 

[Viper 8 R]

Hey, AJ - - Ya forgot to complain about those 'Speakers' that are in the hood, and what about those 'Thermometer- thingies' that are in the headlights !

THE DODGE VIPER EXPERIENCE: "IF I HAD TO EXPLAIN IT, YOU WOULDN'T UNDERSTANMD IT." -(with apologies to Harley-Davidson)