Only 640 hp? ***

[Viper Specialty]

I thought the "forged internal" GTS cars handled boost quite well. If your saying these new parts aren't forged then they won't hold the boost.

Forged Steel and Forged Powdered Metal are NOT the same thing. PM is brittle by comparison.

The same goes for Forged High Silicon Aluminum vs. Forged Low Silicon Aluminum.

Forging is just a process, NOT a specific material. Unfortunately, marketing people know that "Forged" is synonymous with "strong", so they use the word against you out of context to try and score points with uninformed buyers.

 

[ViperNM]

The new SRT Viper GTS is the garage queen version. The less fancy, more experienced driver oriented version with the different hood, the SRT Viper, is the lighter, meaner beast. It was a very good idea to have two different variant coupes from the getgo. I am willing to bet that there will be an "offroad" controller offered by Mopar for the Viper SRT fairly soon after production starts since there is a track kit option ( which lightens the car) being offered by SRT for both cars. And, if Mopar does not come out with a set of better headers, someone will. The Mopar controller and headers added 60 plus HP to the Gen IV. This engine has forged pistons and other improvements that make it more robust so that it can safely tolerate a more aggressive calibration. I think that 700 HP will be easily and safely achieved. I also think that it was probably planned that way. 640 HP is at the edge of what might cause some of the potential buyers to soil themselves and SRT wants to sell these cars not have them sit in inventory.

Well stated Bob, +3.

 

[PDCjonny]

Just ignore him, Jon likes to down other members. Look at his posts. I think it makes him feel better.

I'm not the one calling people "haters" because they are criitical of some aspect of the Gen 5.
Having a different opinion doesn't make someone a hater.
Grow up this isn't SRT cheer leading school.
Some clowns would cheer a Kleenex box with square wheels if it had SRT on it.

 

[Paolo Castellano]

I wish people would stop saying that this engine has "forged internals". The internals coming in this engine will surely be stronger than the Gen-4 parts, but they are NOT on par with the aftermarket. Do not think for a second that you can slap on a TT kit and be done with it- all of the same problems for forced induction from the Gen-4 will translate over to the Gen-5, as they are nearly identical powertrain wise and engine management wise... if not worse because of the joined ECU/ABS w/traction and stability control.

The engine has "Forged POWDERED METAL" connecting rods, the same thing that all 2004+ cars have. Also, the pistons are probably very similar if not identical to the ARCX pistons, and while stronger than the stock ones, are not even in the same league as some of the billet machined pistons out there.

In short, dont let your imagination run away based on some creative wording and commentary.

Dan, thanks for the clarification on the rods and pistons!

I would hope that since you live in NY, you were there and were able to glean some more information than what was revealed on the online reveal....

What did they say about the gearing in relation to being able to hit 60 MPH in 1st gear? What about 5th and 6th gears? Any idea on the ratios?

 

[NVMYVPR]

Jon we are already passed it. Move on and add something to the conversation that is worthwhile. Please regale us with your expertise oh owner of many Vipers and many years on the forum. Anything? Ok, moving on. Any ideas on the chassis brace? I asked this in another thread if anybody has thoughts on this piece being functional or purely cosmetic? Oh and I sure we all noticed the lack of smooth tubes on the intake. Any get a look at the filter set up?

 

[Viper Specialty]

Dan, thanks for the clarification on the rods and pistons!

I would hope that since you live in NY, you were there and were able to glean some more information than what was revealed on the online reveal....

What did they say about the gearing in relation to being able to hit 60 MPH in 1st gear? What about 5th and 6th gears? Any idea on the ratios?

This was 8 hours from here, didn't make it. But... I don't need to see it in person to recognize much of the architecture I am used to seeing day in and day out. Just because it happens to be wearing a different neck-tie, doesn't mean I cant tell who is wearing it, lol.

Not 100% sure on the gearing, but given the available rations from Tremec, and the tire size, new rear end ratio- I would say that no, the car will not hit 60 in 1st anymore. My money is that they went to a close ratio, probably the same ratios I run, and altered the rear ratio. Run through a calculator, a .63 6th on a 3.55 w/ 355/10/19 will hit 206MPH at roughly 5750RPM... this fully supports what they have said. The only other available ratios for lower gears are actually shorter, which would worsen the problem.

 

[Ray W]

Well, I've read the posts and have begun to feel better about the car overall. I am very disappointed with the low horsepower still. We all know 700hp is there,just give it to us. SRT you have done an outstanding job bringing the car more current while keeping some of the best styling ques from the Gen II. It is clearly a home run and a game winner. With 700hp it would be a game winning grand slam in the final inning of game seven in the World Series. Just get it done.

 

[Warren miller]

All the waiting and mega hype for this? Wow, I was expecting so much more! It should have been 700hp minimum!!! It doesn't look menacing anymore. Vipers are supposed to be race cars you can run on the steer, what gives Ralph? I'm hugely dissapointed!

 

[BCBowers]

To clarify, im okay with 640hp, its plenty for the open road and amatuer track day.

LOLOL... I'm an instructor with NASA and get to teach many of the noobs with these modern horsepower laden monsters. I can tell you that most people have no business driving a car with much more than 300 horsepower on track. Whenever I have a Viper or Corvette student who's a novice I make them stick it in 4th and leave it there. I race a C5 Z06 with a stock LS6 (365 rwhp) and it'll run circles around most anything. This new beast has more than enough power :lol:

 

[BCBowers]

Everybody is a Hater these days. You can't please all the people, all the time. No truer words have been uttered lately. If you don't like it don't buy it, sell your **** and go buy a ZR1 or GT500. Be knowledgeable about economics, how cars are designed and built before you start throwing stones. It is always a war between the bean counters and the enthusiasts. When this car was in the works obviously the ZR1 was a target as was past Vipers. I am fairly certain that the 650 hp GT500 took SRT by surprise but it was already a done deal by that time SRT is about selling cars AND selling parts to you. Do you not think the new car will have a proprietary upgrade kit for the GenV directly from SRT? Of course they will. Keeping the engine based on what they already have in house keeps prices for the consumer down, has a possible trickle down effect for those current Gen IV's owners and leaves them room for a "new" engine in 2015 or so. You have to think like a corporation thinks. It is not instant gratification or results. Incremental changes over the lifespan of the current design equals dollars and progress. You scoff at 640hp? Then go buy the Ferrari or Lambo for 3-4 times the amount you will pay for the Viper. Like it or not this is OUR representative on the world stage, in racing and on the street. So all of you Haters stop whining and show some damn support!

^ This... people throw around all these critiques with zero thought about the realities of running a business and producing a vehicle.

 

[VENOMAHOLIC]

The new SRT Viper GTS is the garage queen version. The less fancy, more experienced driver oriented version with the different hood, the SRT Viper, is the lighter, meaner beast. It was a very good idea to have two different variant coupes from the getgo. I am willing to bet that there will be an "offroad" controller offered by Mopar for the Viper SRT fairly soon after production starts since there is a track kit option ( which lightens the car) being offered by SRT for both cars. And, if Mopar does not come out with a set of better headers, someone will. The Mopar controller and headers added 60 plus HP to the Gen IV. This engine has forged pistons and other improvements that make it more robust so that it can safely tolerate a more aggressive calibration. I think that 700 HP will be easily and safely achieved. I also think that it was probably planned that way. 640 HP is at the edge of what might cause some of the potential buyers to soil themselves and SRT wants to sell these cars not have them sit in inventory.

Bob is spot on here. I have posted before that the street legal version of the Viper is going to be watered down compared to the true race car it really is as shown in the new GTS R. Viper purists should be thrilled that SRT could get the potent and reliable V 10 to pass emissions for another few years. Again, to those that are benchracing the importance of having the highest hp ratings, buy the 800 hp crate motor, install it in your Viper, and STHU.

 

[Mopar Boy]

Hey Mopar Boy, it will only be faster if it comes in Race Yellow, right???

Exactly! Maybe the yellow ones are the 700 hp models! (wouldn't that actually be fantastic!!! )

 

[Moundir]

Ok just got home from the show and I have to say it was awesome meeting and chatting with Ralph and the others who made this a possibility! From talking to him I can tell you that that the 640hp # is just the starting point if not complete bs all together!!! The car in person was good looking, but did not scream Viper to me! It was very subdued and not obnoxious like the old GTS or even the Gen3 and 4s! I think the New "GTS" with the new "SRT" hood will look menacing and will give it the pop it needs!! Overall am I going to run and sell the my gen 4 and get this one? Nope, not just yet, and may e not ever! I will on the other hand add one to the stable as a more suitable driver for the wife

 

[ACRucrazy]

Everyone complaining about the 640 HP.

Think about this for a second. Do you think Ferrari would allow the Viper to have more power or better power/weight than the Viper?

The new F12 is 740 HP. If the Viper had 670hp it would beat the F12 in that ratio, 700hp would destroy it @ 4.4 pounds/hp.
The new F12 has to carry 6.8 pounds around per ft pound of torque. The Viper.. 5.2 pounds per ft pound of torque.

For all this Shelby GT500 talk, it has 5.9 curb weight pounds per HP. Or my guestimated 5.7-5.8 dry/hp. The Shelby weighs 15% more than the Viper. Don't get your ******* in a bunch.

SRT advertising 640 is one thing, let's just wait and see what it puts to the pavement, then start the ******** and moaning if its justified. This thing has more power, more torque, aluminum flywheel, better gears, LSD, better chassis, better suspension, bigger tires, lighter weight than the all mighty SRT-10..

You must be registered for see images

 

[NHL2133]

Dan, thanks for the clarification on the rods and pistons!

I would hope that since you live in NY, you were there and were able to glean some more information than what was revealed on the online reveal....

What did they say about the gearing in relation to being able to hit 60 MPH in 1st gear? What about 5th and 6th gears? Any idea on the ratios?

These are the ratios:

1st 2.26
2nd 1.58
3rd 1.19
4th 1.00
5th 0.77
6th 0.63
Axle Ratio 3.55
Overall Top-gear 2.24

All current specs can be seen here...
http://www.drivesrt.com/assets/reveal/docs/2013-srt-viper-spec-sheet.pdf

 

[swexlin]

Everyone complaining about the 640 HP.

Think about this for a second. Do you think Ferrari would allow the Viper to have more power or better power/weight than the Viper?

The new F12 is 740 HP. If the Viper had 670hp it would beat the F12 in that ratio, 700hp would destroy it @ 4.4 pounds/hp.
The new F12 has to carry 6.8 pounds around per ft pound of torque. The Viper.. 5.2 pounds per ft pound of torque.

For all this Shelby GT500 talk, it has 5.9 curb weight pounds per HP. Or my guestimated 5.7-5.8 dry/hp. The Shelby weighs 15% more than the Viper. Don't get your ******* in a bunch.

SRT advertising 640 is one thing, let's just wait and see what it puts to the pavement, then start the ******** and moaning if its justified. This thing has more power, more torque, aluminum flywheel, better gears, LSD, better chassis, better suspension, bigger tires, lighter weight than the all mighty SRT-10..

You must be registered for see images

This. I've mentioned a couple time heres, if you notice the wording in the press release, it says "estimated". I bet it will come in higher, AND be underrated still, much like the 6.4 is currently in the other SRTs. (Ain't no way that 470 hp is propelling those cars to the numbers 0-60 and in the 1/4 mile that they're posting).

Patience people, this new Viper is a hit, and if I had the $$, I'd have a deposit on one already!

 

[PDCjonny]

They have to leave room for the next few years.
They can't do anything more with the interior really, so the HP will have to bump up what else would entice someone in the coming years.
More HP with a vert and ACR option coming.

 

[v10enomous]

2 more ponies than a ZR1 is a ploy to see if GM flinches and by how much. With 640 the viper will handily beat the ZR1 all day every day with no heat soak to worry about. Plus the viper is more exclusive and better lookong in and out.

 

[SylvanSRT]

def got some 599 GTO, and FXX DNA along w/ lots of GTS. the HP should be more than adequate. The mustang w/ big hp weighs 500-600lbs more than this car, and come on its got 4 seats, its not a sports car! The Veyron has lots more hp 1000-1300 depending on model, it weights over 4,000 lbs(not a sports car IMHO), luxury GT. The New Viper looks great cant wait to see the vert and maybe the HP should say "INITIAL OUTPUT"!! The ACR-X had 640(40 more than gen IV) HP and this was done only w/ headers/exhaust. I am guessing they have some more HP hidden away in their sock drawer(engine controller, rev limiter, ect...)

 

[HSSSSSS]

Exactly! Maybe the yellow ones are the 700 hp models! (wouldn't that actually be fantastic!!! )

Give the red ones the 700 HP so they won't be too far behind.

 

[Grisoman]

Gotta have a 5-year tease for the GenVI!

 

[stranger355]

I'm one of the people who complained about the car "only" having 640hp, but the truth is the Viper really built it's reputation on it's racing and track records, not on HP numbers. Time will tell how well it will do in this regard, but history can't be changed...the Gen 4 ACR will go down as one of the all time greats, which is why I'll be selling my Gen 4 to get an ACR rather than a Gen V.

 

[BlknBlu]

I cant wait for the first SRT chat for this car on the forum and the question gets asked. Why only 640 HP? SRT will give an explanation that most of us will embrace and once the response is done another question will be asked. Why only 640 HP? Folks this car will perform above and beyond what anyone expects. lighter, better gears and the aero is unknown. I am guessing a 10.7 in the quarter and who knows at the track with 50% more stiffness in the frame. that will deliver more power to the pavement. SRT is about all facets of performance, not just a straight line.

Give it a chance and do not come to conclusions from paper.

Bruce

 

[345s-bspinnin]

Dan, thanks for the clarification on the rods and pistons!

I would hope that since you live in NY, you were there and were able to glean some more information than what was revealed on the online reveal....

What did they say about the gearing in relation to being able to hit 60 MPH in 1st gear? What about 5th and 6th gears? Any idea on the ratios?

Paolo, the Gen V will hit 60mph in first gear. Check out my GenV Gearing Thread

 

[v10enomous]

What a disappointment... More hp than a ZR1 for $20k less in a better looking hand built car...

 

[Paolo Castellano]

Paolo, the Gen V will hit 60mph in first gear. Check out my GenV Gearing Thread

I just saw that link on the alley about 30 minutes ago!

Thanks!

 

[Paolo Castellano]

Paolo, the Gen V will hit 60mph in first gear. Check out my GenV Gearing Thread

345's, here are a few things I figured out: I think people should buy or acquire the new transmission ratios and get the 3.55's:

SRT just used custom gear ratios that are roughly the same when you multiply the transmission gear ratio by the rear end gear for the first 3 gears and of course changed 5th and 6th...

So, in absolute terms taking into account transmission gear ratio X rear end gear ratio, now the Gen V has 2% more TQ multiplication in 1st gear and second gears(easy to spin the tires in those gears anyway while still being able to go 0-60 in 1st gear), about 5.5% more TQ multiplication in 3rd, 13.5% more tq multiplication in 4th, 17% more in 5th up to 190 MPH and only 2% less than the .74 5th with the 3.07 old style transmission/rear end gear ratio setup!


So: when you take into account that in the power band where the Gen V is making the +40 LBS/Ft, then the torque multiplication by gear is the following:

Gen4:...............................................................................Gen V:

1st 560 RWTQ * 2.66* 3.07 = 4573.................................1st 1st 600 RWTQ * 2.26 * 3.55 = 4814 4814/4573 = 5% More TQ multiplication
2nd By similar calculation = 3060.......................................2nd By similar calculation = 3365 3365/3060 = 10% More TQ multiplication
3rd = 2235 ......................................................................3rd = 2535 2535/2235 = 13% More TQ multiplication
4th = 1719.......................................................................4th = 2130 2130/1719 = 24% More TQ multiplication
5th = 1272.......................................................................5th = 1640 1640/1272 =29% More TQ multiplication
6th = 860.........................................................................6th = 1342 ==> Forget about this comparison.... but 1342/1272 is still 5.5% more TQ multiplication than stock 5th when the MPH of the Gen 4 and Gen 5 in this side by side race to top speed would necessitate the Gen 5 having to shift into 5th gear at about 190 MPH....

So when people are upset about only 40 more HP, they are not taking into account the gearing, as the Gen 5 has about 5% more power you will feel in 1st, 10% more in 2nd, 13% more in 3rd when aero drag starts to become a factor, 24% more in 4th, and 29% more in 5th until 190 MPH. In loose terms since the torque curves of the gen 4 and 5 are fairly similar except for the Gen 5's staying flat to the very end as depictrd in the graphs shown to us, we can reason to multiply the HP by these numbers to illustrate to the people upset by the absolute power numbers that 1st gear has 640 X 1.05 = 672 HP, 2nd gear has 640 X 1.1 = 704HP, 3rd gear 640 X 1.13 = 723.2 HP, 4th gear 640 X 1.24 = 794 HP. 5th gear (up to 190 MPH) 640 X 1.29 = 826 HP.

So with this gearing, the Gen5 will accelerate like iit has this much more power in each gear as compared to the Gen 4.....

What I am saying is that the Gen 5 will eat the Gen 4 alive in a mile race or a race to the top speed. All this because of gearing......

Interesting?

YES!

 

[345s-bspinnin]

Thanks for taking the math/engineering to the next level. I completely understand the torque mechanical multiplication advantages of the GenV. The tighter gearing and broader torque/power curves will more than makeup for "minimal" gain in power. There is no doubt in my mind that those SRT boys did their homework. They aced it too.

 

[CA97GTS]

I bet it "really is" more like 670 hp, or more, this because the 600 hp Vipers regularly dynoed
at 550, even 560, and with 15% loss accepted as standard they where already putting out the
640 in 2010........
Why rate the new one at 640 ? Good question- I bet they dyno at 600 hp - what do you think ?

 

[PDCjonny]

But what's the benefit of underrating HP when it comes to selling a car?
You think in reality they have 675 HP but the chose to advertise it as 640?
Kinda counter productive no?