swexlin
Viper Owner
I believe driveline losses in these cars are only about 12% or so. No torque converter to eat up power like in a car with an automatic.
Only 640 hp? ***
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cfiiman
Viper Owner
NSviper
Enthusiast
Exactly....
shooter_t1
Has Left the Room!
I'm kinda underwhelmed with the 640 number myself, but do like the interior and think it looks to be what was needed to make the new car appeal to a broader spectrum of buyers. It's got the nannies so people that come over from Ferrari's have a fighting chance to drive them more then 200 miles without wrapping it around a tree. Although it's usually the torque that (Snake)bites the sweater vest crowd and nannies won't save everyone.
That being said, I am only really interested in an ACR version. If the ACR looks like the new GTSR and has 700 hp...I will buy one.
So does that put me in the hater crowd?
That being said, I am only really interested in an ACR version. If the ACR looks like the new GTSR and has 700 hp...I will buy one.
So does that put me in the hater crowd?
Pythonpete
Enthusiast
I think it will be no problem to get this engine to 700hp and pass emissions in all states. I cannot wait to get one!
Pythonpete
Enthusiast
THANK YOU!!! Finally someone who actually knows what he's talking about. Tired of all of these "EXPERTS" who say its not possible.
I was there last night and think the SRZ team did a great job overall with the car. They listened and brought the styling back to more of the Gen I/II, interior greatly improved, electronics more in line with the competition. There are bound to people who find one or more aspects of the car objectionable, happens with many new products not just cars. this 640hp engine is just the first iteration for the Gen V, leaving much room for engine options and after market parts/work.
I guess it depends if you're a half full or half empty kind of person. Coming from the distinct possibility there would never be another Viper, I would say this is quite a re-birth!
If I had the money for one, I'd be right up there at the front of the line. This not being the case, I will just have to admire those Fortunate enough to own one.
But I still love my RT/10, just for the record!
I guess it depends if you're a half full or half empty kind of person. Coming from the distinct possibility there would never be another Viper, I would say this is quite a re-birth!
If I had the money for one, I'd be right up there at the front of the line. This not being the case, I will just have to admire those Fortunate enough to own one.
But I still love my RT/10, just for the record!
eucharistos
Enthusiast
tzortzViper
Viper Owner
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I cant believe it!
What kind of assumptions are those?
5th Gear and 826HP?? Are you serious?
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ontariomystic
Viper Owner
Keep in mind that ZR1's and 2013 GT500's are only making their rated horsepower under ideal conditions. Take those cars out on a summer day and stop at a few traffic lights and the power drops way down from the computers pulling timing from heat soak. That never recovers until you give the car a long cool down. I'd prefer the naturally aspirated, big engine approach anyday.
He's demonstrating the effective torque multiplication of the gearing. You know... the reason a car accelerates more quickly in lower gears.
Paolo Castellano
Enthusiast
Tzortz,
Back in the day, I had an aftermarket transmission installed into my Viper that had taller 1,2 and 3rd gear ratios. It was Jerico dogring 5-speed road race transmission. At the time, my car had 465 RWHP and 503 RWTQ which was a lot more than everybody else's stockers @ about 400-420 RWHP and 450-470 RWTQ. My car easily spanked everybody especially in the first 3 gears. Well, as happy as I was with the lightning quick shifts of the dog ring lift and shift box, when I raced a stock Gen 2 and got my ass handed to me, I realized I had to change the gears and that my car had not become any slower or less powerful, I just had taller gears and therefore the lesser powered cars I would normally spank, were now spanking me!
My example is comparing a Gen 4 with it's stock gearing and torque curve and numbers to a Gen 5 with 40 more HP/TQ and revised gearing.
You could also take a Gen 5 and de-tune it to the identical power numbers and torque curve profile and also put the Gen 4 differential gear and transmission ratios, this car would need the additional power in those gears to stay even with the current Gen V configuration.
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InjectTheVenom
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I seem to remember it was something like getting around tighter regulations to underrate a car.
Boxer12
Enthusiast
I haven't read all the comments (6 pgs already) but as I understood from SRT, the drivetrain was certified by the Feds and had to be maintained for this Gen due to the cost of the recertification process...the bean counters are to blame!!
Boxer12
Enthusiast
Dan, I haven't read whether the new PCM is programmable...what have you heard?
SylvanSRT
Enthusiast
publically under rating an engine wont get you a law suit like for had w the Cobra Mustangs years ago, when all the cars were found to be under the "claimed" hp
I'll never forget that whole debacle with the '99 Cobra. I owned a '97 Cobra at the time and followed it closely. Problem with those cars is that they were way overrated. The engine was supposed to make 320 crank horse and they were dynoing in the 230-240s.
NICE.
I just ran them through a calculator and compared the G5 setup to the G4 w/.81-.63 modification. It looks like they are nearly identical in terms of performance, with the only difference being that the G5 has a slightly narrower spread, while the G4Mod has a wider spread, but is more evenly spaced through the gears with regard to rev-drop during a shift. The G5 has a goofy jump from 3rd to 4th, they are too close together. Ideally, 4th should have been a .96 or so to get rid of the near 50% difference in rev drop from 2-3 and 4-5 as there is from 3-4.
My only comment at this time is that I wonder how this is going to affect mileage & Gas Guzzler nonsense. Sure, it will make it more usable, but it will now be near 1800 RPM @ 65 mph, which is a BIG jump from 1200RPM @ 65 with the old .50/3.07
If someone wants to check it out or post a screen shot comparison, I just used this application to visualize it: http://www.gearboxman.co.uk/inforatios.html
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joedud
Enthusiast
Sorry if this is a simple question/answer, but why not just deliver the Gen V with upgraded bolt-ons, take it to 675HP? On a 100K car what would better flowing headers, cats, exhaust add to the final price, 4-5K? Seems like good $ to HP figure, and accomplishes a final number that would please most owners. I thought the aftermarket upgrade to my Gen IV was worth every penny.
SnakeBitten
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Will it pass emissions with that though? It would be nice to have that part of the "Track" package though.
345s-bspinnin
Enthusiast
I made a thread a few days ago related regarding GenV gearing (CLICK ME)
Here is an image on the GenV gearing:
Here is an image on the GenV gearing:
You must be registered for see images attach
The data approach is useful, but there is no better way than to visualize it. The link I posted above allows you to do so, and even tell you shift points and speeds, and rev drops between gears.
v10enomous
Enthusiast
Look at the Lexus LFA. 552hp and 354 lb-ft tq in a v10 and it's $400k and 3,500 lbs.
ROCKET62
Has Left the Room!
I think the stated 640 number was because of the "Ferrari Limiter" that Fiat built in.
Looks to be underrated and it will be fun to see some real numbers once it hits the streets.
For those that think this is still a 20 year old truck engine - you know nothing about the history of the engine and the evolution of it. If you're going to make that analogy - you might as well say - heck it's really 150 year old 4-stroke combustion technology - blah, blah, blah. I only have one complaint - lose the plastic engine covers - look cheesy to me.
Looks to be underrated and it will be fun to see some real numbers once it hits the streets.
For those that think this is still a 20 year old truck engine - you know nothing about the history of the engine and the evolution of it. If you're going to make that analogy - you might as well say - heck it's really 150 year old 4-stroke combustion technology - blah, blah, blah. I only have one complaint - lose the plastic engine covers - look cheesy to me.
slitherv10
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Ok guys !!
Look at these stats on 0-60 times for the mustang your all cooked up about and its HP rating. First of all you can see on teh chart the 2011 gt500 shelby does the same numbers as the 1996 GTS does. Hp rating for that car is 550HP and 510Trq. 96 GTS is 450HP and 490 Trq. Yet the same quarter and 0-60 times. Now take the Gen III cars with 505 Hp and less Hp again that that Mustang, and you get numbers beating that 550 Hp car. Numbers mean nothing. It is what is put to the ground. The 2010 ACR with 38 less Hp and 40 less trq than the ZR1 put out better numbers and Nurburing numbers they still cant beat.
With the new SRT GTS, the new mUstang with its 650 Hp will be eaten alive by this Viper if history tells the tale. If you do the equations , the Gen 4 cars and even the Gen 3 cars will keep up and maybe take the 2013 Shelby. The Nwe 2013 will destroy it in all aspects. Wait and see. Then all the mustang guys will ** hum. Where were they in Nurburing?...where are tehy in the 24 lemans...nowhere!!..They dont belong there. They can't compete there. Even with all that HP they supposidly produce.
Proof is in the pudding and, those guys never stood or stand a chance once again. The ZR-1 will also be looking at the LED taillights of the New SRT. They wre with 38 more Hp and will once again with less.
Here is the link to the 0-60 and quarter times of the mustang and which ever car you want to look up
http://www.zeroto60times.com/Ford-0-60-mph-Times.html
Look at these stats on 0-60 times for the mustang your all cooked up about and its HP rating. First of all you can see on teh chart the 2011 gt500 shelby does the same numbers as the 1996 GTS does. Hp rating for that car is 550HP and 510Trq. 96 GTS is 450HP and 490 Trq. Yet the same quarter and 0-60 times. Now take the Gen III cars with 505 Hp and less Hp again that that Mustang, and you get numbers beating that 550 Hp car. Numbers mean nothing. It is what is put to the ground. The 2010 ACR with 38 less Hp and 40 less trq than the ZR1 put out better numbers and Nurburing numbers they still cant beat.
With the new SRT GTS, the new mUstang with its 650 Hp will be eaten alive by this Viper if history tells the tale. If you do the equations , the Gen 4 cars and even the Gen 3 cars will keep up and maybe take the 2013 Shelby. The Nwe 2013 will destroy it in all aspects. Wait and see. Then all the mustang guys will ** hum. Where were they in Nurburing?...where are tehy in the 24 lemans...nowhere!!..They dont belong there. They can't compete there. Even with all that HP they supposidly produce.
Proof is in the pudding and, those guys never stood or stand a chance once again. The ZR-1 will also be looking at the LED taillights of the New SRT. They wre with 38 more Hp and will once again with less.
Here is the link to the 0-60 and quarter times of the mustang and which ever car you want to look up
http://www.zeroto60times.com/Ford-0-60-mph-Times.html
SylvanSRT
Enthusiast
^^^^ 
Agreed!
Agreed!
SylvanSRT
Enthusiast
a number of years ago a car mag/rag did a comparo of the Ford GT, Corvette ZO6, and The Dodge Viper SRT-10('04 or '05 so 510 hp) at Gingerman Raceway in SW Michigan the best track time was basically a tie w/ Viper and GT. The Viper is/was way down on hp compared to the GT
SRT IAM POSITIVE would have LOVED to produce a 700 hp motor the problem is how do you do it and STILL STAY IN BUDGET AND PASS EMISSIONS .Superchanging exotic valvetrain ,dry sump ect is out because of the Rand D costs .Modifying the existing platform (bigger cam )is also out because it would never pass emissions and driveability tests .The Viper is at a disatvantage because there s no other platform in CHRYSLER to share parts with .Ford instance has that new MUSTANG MOTOR producing 660 hp BUT that engine platform is shared on a million other FORD cars and trucks per year
Because not in a MILLION YEARS would it pass emissions and driveability tests. They also could have put a dry sump in there but THATS EXPENSIVE TO DEVELOP
