Paint remover question

[Bolt]

I'm ready to strip my paint off my 98 GTS. I'm looking for a really good way of removing the paint. Remover would do the best job but I am concerned about getting the remover in the pores of the fiberglass and urethane and having the paint bubble later. Does anyone have any recommendations of remover or and neutralizer?

Bolt

 

[ROCKET62]

Re: Pait remover question

Good post. What are you stripping? I'm thinking that my front fascia and side sills could use a repaint as my winter project.

 

[94RT10Ohio]

Re: Pait remover question

Paint strippers are a bad idea on a car. The best thing is good old labor intensive sanding or blasting.

 

[Bolt]

Re: Pait remover question

Paint strippers are a bad idea on a car. The best thing is good old labor intensive sanding or blasting.

Sanding and blasting works great on steel but not on soft substraits like fiberglass, urethane, rubber, ect. You have a very hard time controling the sanding when doing it the labor intensive way. For an example if you are powersanding with 60 grit you will have no feeling when you run out of paint and his the substrait material. I've sanded many of metal bodies down to bear metal but never done fiberglass. This has to be done the chemical way.

 

[Bolt]

Re: Pait remover question

Good post. What are you stripping?

The whole car.

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[Bolt]

Re: Pait remover question

Paint strippers are a bad idea on a car.

Please explain

 

[dansauto]

Re: Pait remover question

aircraft stripper will be hard to neturtlize if it gets under the "gelcoat" Sanding is not a good idea eather as you will make it wavy. The best way is to soda blast (they use baking soda) Check around and see if any shops have the equipment. I know of a place in Syracuse NY that does. They strip airplanes and fine furnature. After stripping you will still have to block sand and urethane seal all blasted surfaces.

 

[Mopar Steve]

Re: Pait remover question

Unless the car has several coats of paint, or unless the current paint is checked and cracked or peeling there is no real reason to strip the current paint off. Fine sanding and good surface prep is all that should be needed for a good repaint.

 

[Bolt]

Re: Pait remover question

Unless the car has several coats of paint, or unless the current paint is checked and cracked or peeling there is no real reason to strip the current paint off. Fine sanding and good surface prep is all that should be needed for a good repaint.

The paint has to come off. In 1998 there was a run of ppg red painted Vipers which are bubbling now. The paint must be totaly removed.


Sounds like I'll have to find someone who does soda blasting. Bummer, I wanted to do the job myself to save cash.

 

[ROCKET62]

Re: Pait remover question

Unless the car has several coats of paint, or unless the current paint is checked and cracked or peeling there is no real reason to strip the current paint off. Fine sanding and good surface prep is all that should be needed for a good repaint.

The paint has to come off. In 1998 there was a run of ppg red painted Vipers which are bubbling now. The paint must be totaly removed.


Sounds like I'll have to find someone who dies soda blasting. Bummer, I wanted to do the job myself to save cash.

I've seen a 99 Black Viper that also has the bubbling issue as well. Good luck with the fix.

 

[Mopar Steve]

Re: Pait remover question

Yep, bubbling equals peeling/blistering, Gotta come off sorry to hear. Chemical stripping is the best bet. Just be sure to nutralise the stripper, and rinse, rinse, rinse, rinse, then rinse some more. Be sure to dry completely also.

 

[dansauto]

Re: Pait remover question

Yep, bubbling equals peeling/blistering, Gotta come off sorry to hear. Chemical stripping is the best bet. Just be sure to nutralise the stripper, and rinse, rinse, rinse, rinse, then rinse some more. Be sure to dry completely also.

Only if you really know what you are doing. I have seen many botched corvettes. Soda blasting is the best bet. If you do chem strip, do NOT use catalized aircraft stripper (mostly for removing epoxy and Imron paints from metal) It reactes too quickly and will eat past the gel coat. Once it does that it is is almost impossible to stop it from bubbling later. You use baking soda or lime and water to neutrilze.

 

[big-n-italian]

Re: Pait remover question

what do they do with corvettes? the steps and techniques would be the same, correct?

 

[Bolt]

Re: Pait remover question

I found someone local who can soda blast my car. His question is what is the body made of? What composite exactly? Panels, bumpers, roof, ect…

I'll keep you posted on this.

Bolt

 

[Mopar Steve]

Re: Pait remover question

Yep, bubbling equals peeling/blistering, Gotta come off sorry to hear. Chemical stripping is the best bet. Just be sure to nutralise the stripper, and rinse, rinse, rinse, rinse, then rinse some more. Be sure to dry completely also.

Only if you really know what you are doing. I have seen many botched corvettes. Soda blasting is the best bet. If you do chem strip, do NOT use catalized aircraft stripper (mostly for removing epoxy and Imron paints from metal) It reactes too quickly and will eat past the gel coat. Once it does that it is is almost impossible to stop it from bubbling later. You use baking soda or lime and water to neutrilze.

True

 

[dansauto]

Re: Pait remover question

our cars are sheet molded compostite. (SMC) early Gen 1's were RTM (simular material, but differnat process) He should use the same proceedure as he would any fiberglass substrate. He will need to "feather" the blaster a little unitl he sees what it takes to remove. Make a note where the paint was blistering, after its stripped put a heat lamp on those spots for a couple hours to bake out any uncured material. Then use a good two part urethane surfacer, block that with 220 wet (lot quicker) then seal with a two part tintable sealer. You dont need to sand the sealer unless you get dust/dirt in it (apply it in an booth like you would the color/clear coats) now your ready for paint. If your not painting it yourself, just block out the surfacer and leave the sealer to the painter. Are you going to paint it red again?

 

[Bolt]

Re: Pait remover question

Here is some real good inforamtion on the body pannels.



1998:
Hood and roof (if Coupe) = SMC (Sheet Molded Composite) with *Akzo-Nobel (Sikkens) AP-106 primer and 2k low bake paint.

Doors, decklid, sportcap (if Roadster), fuel door, hinge covers and rear quarters = RTM (Resin Transfer Molding) with *Akzo-Nobel (Sikkens) AP-106 primer and 2k low bake paint.

Sills = E-coated aluminum with *Akzo-Nobel (Sikkens) 2k low bake paint.

Fascias = RIM (Reaction Injection Molding) with BASF primer and 1k high bake paint.

Coupe rear closure = TPO (Thermal Poly Olyphyn) with Rohm and Haas adhesion promoter and 1k high bake paint.

*Some 1998's were painted with PPG Global 2k low bake paint instead of the Akzo-Nobel (Sikkens) 2k low bake paint, because the paint was peeling off the TPO. After painting less than 300 body sets, the PPG Global 2k low bake paint was replaced with the Akzo-Nobel (Sikkens) 2k low bake paint which had been used since 1992. Less than a hand full of cars made it out to the field with the PPG Global body panels on them.

 

[Bolt]

Re: Pait remover question

our cars are sheet molded compostite. (SMC) early Gen 1's were RTM (simular material, but differnat process) He should use the same proceedure as he would any fiberglass substrate. He will need to "feather" the blaster a little unitl he sees what it takes to remove. Make a note where the paint was blistering, after its stripped put a heat lamp on those spots for a couple hours to bake out any uncured material. Then use a good two part urethane surfacer, block that with 220 wet (lot quicker) then seal with a two part tintable sealer. You dont need to sand the sealer unless you get dust/dirt in it (apply it in an booth like you would the color/clear coats) now your ready for paint. If your not painting it yourself, just block out the surfacer and leave the sealer to the painter. Are you going to paint it red again?

Good detailed advice. Thank you!

Bolt

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

Re: Pait remover question

I was looking at a couple GTS's at a Dodge dealership at the beginning of the year and they both were bubbling extensively. They said if I bought one they would have it repainted under warranty. I asked how they could warranty a 8 yr old paint job and the guy checked with his GM and the GM said since it was a known Viper problem, Dodge would still cover the repaint. Not sure how true it is, but it couldn't hurt to check!

 

[94RT10Ohio]

Re: Pait remover question

Paint strippers are a bad idea on a car.

Please explain

In my experience using paint strippers on large areas, such as an entire car, will make a big mess which can be harder to clean and prep than using good old labor. Strippers work great for small hobby type jobs. They also work great in the VIP area

 

[Jay Herbert]

Re: Pait remover question

Paint strippers are a bad idea on a car. The best thing is good old labor intensive sanding or blasting.

Sanding and blasting works great on steel but not on soft substraits like fiberglass, urethane, rubber, ect. You have a very hard time controling the sanding when doing it the labor intensive way. For an example if you are powersanding with 60 grit you will have no feeling when you run out of paint and his the substrait material. I've sanded many of metal bodies down to bear metal but never done fiberglass. This has to be done the chemical way.

There are now many different blasting medias designed for stripping paint from fiberglass, SMC, etc. If you contact a reputable blaster, they'll recommend the proper media.... they use everything from ice (CO2), and soda, to plastic, walnut shells (really), to glass beads. Really.

Look here for an example (sorry, itsa vette ) : plastic media blasting of fiberglass

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One thing I learned when I block sanded one of my Viper doors.... there are many layers of paint, filler, featherfill, more paint, more featherfill, etc, etc on a Viper as it leaves the factory. Not sure If I'd recommend blasting. Lots of block sanding may get you surprizingly close to all of your paint removed. It did for the one door I block sanded.

You can see this on the picture of rear fender.....which had factory paint on it...... not much red left on this fender after block sanding!

same fender after paint:

You'll still want to block sand like mad if you choose blasting, Ed used two part urathane primer on mine as noted above.

 

[dansauto]

Re: Pait remover question

everything but the plastic media Jay mentioned is too course to use on fiberglass. Not many people are using plastic as it is so expensive and not very enviromentaly friendly. Soda blasting is really the only way to go. A guy that know how to use his equipment will feather the blaster and take off the material evenly. As I mentioned in my post, after you strip, lay some heavy surfacer NOT primer as Jay mentioned. There is a differance. Primer is made to bond paint to metal. Examples of primer are epoxy, urethane, laq, ect depending on the top coat. Surfacer is made with the same heavy solids that clear has. It is used to fill imperfections. After the car is blasted dryout the blister areas with heat, Then lay 2-3 coats of surfacer. This is catalized, but let the car sit a week in a heated shop before you block it out. Even catalized materials shrink a litle. To minimize this just let it sit a week. Then comes the hard part...Blocking. However th surfacers are easy to sand. You can to this wet or dry. Wet will save paper but you will need to squeege the surface to see what you have. 220 grit is fine as this will have to be sealed anyway. Using a good tintable sealer will also help with color hold out (reds are very translucent) When you are done the surface will be better than the factory (Vipers are a little wavy-look down the side of a black one and you will see what I mean)

 

[Jay Herbert]

Re: Pait remover question

everything but the plastic media Jay mentioned is too course to use on fiberglass. Not many people are using plastic as it is so expensive and not very enviromentaly friendly. Soda blasting is really the only way to go. A guy that know how to use his equipment will feather the blaster and take off the material evenly. As I mentioned in my post, after you strip, lay some heavy surfacer NOT primer as Jay mentioned. There is a differance. Primer is made to bond paint to metal. Examples of primer are epoxy, urethane, laq, ect depending on the top coat. Surfacer is made with the same heavy solids that clear has. It is used to fill imperfections. After the car is blasted dryout the blister areas with heat, Then lay 2-3 coats of surfacer. This is catalized, but let the car sit a week in a heated shop before you block it out. Even catalized materials shrink a litle. To minimize this just let it sit a week. Then comes the hard part...Blocking. However th surfacers are easy to sand. You can to this wet or dry. Wet will save paper but you will need to squeege the surface to see what you have. 220 grit is fine as this will have to be sealed anyway. Using a good tintable sealer will also help with color hold out (reds are very translucent) When you are done the surface will be better than the factory (Vipers are a little wavy-look down the side of a black one and you will see what I mean)

should have said, "Primer filler", not just "primer"

This is what was used on My Car:

Pimer Filler: URO 1140S-1

Sealer: 42440S

Color: 7175S

Clear: 72500S

Plus some adhesion promoter, reducers, activators, thinners, etc., etc, etc..... I'm sitting here looking at the materials invoice from the paint store, over $2000 just in materials.

The paint line we used was DuPont "ChromaPremier"

 

[Bolt]

Re: Pait remover question

Keep the details coming. I have been reading all the posts for good advice. I got an appointment with a blaster tonight. Now I'm not sure what to do. Maybe I should just sand it off. 80 grit can take the paint off pretty easily and will not leave a powder mess to clean up. And it sounds like a great job for the wife and kids.

Controversy, what to do???? I hate this. I just want to tear into this project.


Bolt

 

[dansauto]

Re: Pait remover question

how bad are the blisters? All over or just in one or two places? Soda is pretty easy to clean up. Its so fine that you can just blow it out. On metal I will use a soft pad and 80 grit, dont try this on your car as it will chew way to fast and you will grind past the "gel coat" (SMC does not have gel coat, rather a barrier coat) and like Jay did, dont do cheap on materials. With paint you get what you pay for. I spent about the same kind of $ on Laurie's car. If you are stripping the whole car, blast it. If you are just doing a qrt panel then dont make more work for yourself-just sand it.

 

[Bolt]

Re: Pait remover question

how bad are the blisters? All over or just in one or two places? Soda is pretty easy to clean up. Its so fine that you can just blow it out. On metal I will use a soft pad and 80 grit, dont try this on your car as it will chew way to fast and you will grind past the "gel coat" (SMC does not have gel coat, rather a barrier coat) and like Jay did, dont do cheap on materials. With paint you get what you pay for. I spent about the same kind of $ on Laurie's car. If you are stripping the whole car, blast it. If you are just doing a qrt panel then dont make more work for yourself-just sand it.

The blisters are on the front nose of the hood about 16 inches wide by 1/2 inch high. I also am having blisters starting around the gas filler area. Not where gas splashes on. I was going to do the whole car. Are you recomending doing the blistered areas and skuff the rest of the paint and spray?

 

[dansauto]

Re: Pait remover question

how bad are the blisters? All over or just in one or two places? Soda is pretty easy to clean up. Its so fine that you can just blow it out. On metal I will use a soft pad and 80 grit, dont try this on your car as it will chew way to fast and you will grind past the "gel coat" (SMC does not have gel coat, rather a barrier coat) and like Jay did, dont do cheap on materials. With paint you get what you pay for. I spent about the same kind of $ on Laurie's car. If you are stripping the whole car, blast it. If you are just doing a qrt panel then dont make more work for yourself-just sand it.

The blisters are on the front nose of the hood about 16 inches wide by 1/2 inch high. I also am having blisters starting around the gas filler area. Not where gas splashes on. I was going to do the whole car. Are you recomending doing the blistered areas and skuff the rest of the paint and spray?

yep, if you are leaving it the same color. You should still take it apart and sand the entire car with 400, I would just strip the areas that are blistering, heat cure them, fill, then seal.

 

[Bolt]

Re: Pait remover question

yep, if you are leaving it the same color. You should still take it apart and sand the entire car with 400, I would just strip the areas that are blistering, heat cure them, fill, then seal.

It would be easer and cheeper. I may not even have to take the doors off.

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