Paxton vs PD Blower - my Z06 vs my Viper

[Roysviper]

DO you really think the blower is the issue in the operating range of the race?

I'd bet my money on it!!! Anyone familiar with ROE will tell you that there is alot of difference between a ROE and Paxton, performance wise. To me that Z06 outrunning that Viper instantly when I first read this post told me something is terribly wrong with that picture and also I have NEVER cared about racing anything from any kind of ROLL. I am ONLY impressed with 0-60, 1/8th mi ETs and 1/4 mi ETs. I used to street race in the old days for money and along the way I went from the street to the track. Someone would want to race from a roll and I wouldn't give them the time of day. Now that is JUST my OPINION about this subject and others will come back on me for my opinion because they are NOT drag racers, so PLEASE don't come back hatin' me for making my comments here about this ROLL racing and Z0 what? I KNOW you will NEVER see PINKS go from the ole arm drop to ROLL Racing....OK, I spoke my piece so I see alot of comments about MY OPINION coming..."Happy New Year Everyone, even you Z0 what owners."

 

[Nine Ball]

A rescritor plate slightly helping on the low end and a smaller pulley at 700 rwhp will get you to where your Z06 was before you added the 60 rwhp to it. Thats it..

Did your drag your cts-v yet?

Valid point. I suppose I'd need to add +60 and then +100 to beat the Z06. That does get expensive.

CTS-V is on my lift, radiator and fans removed, waiting for a cam to show up. I'm upping the boost with a crank pulley swap, doing a cam install on it. Should be good for 550+ rwhp.

Tony

 

[Seb]

I'd bet my money on it!!! Anyone familiar with ROE will tell you that there is alot of difference between a ROE and Paxton, performance wise. To me that Z06 outrunning that Viper instantly when I first read this post told me something is terribly wrong with that picture and also I have NEVER cared about racing anything from any kind of ROLL. I am ONLY impressed with 0-60, 1/8th mi ETs and 1/4 mi ETs. I used to street race in the old days for money and along the way I went from the street to the track. Someone would want to race from a roll and I wouldn't give them the time of day. Now that is JUST my OPINION about this subject and others will come back on me for my opinion because they are NOT drag racers, so PLEASE don't come back hatin' me for making my comments here about this ROLL racing and Z0 what? I KNOW you will NEVER see PINKS go from the ole arm drop to ROLL Racing....OK, I spoke my piece so I see alot of comments about MY OPINION coming..."Happy New Year Everyone, even you Z0 what owners."

i edited my post after I looked at it and figured the engine rpm would drop way lower on the 2-3 or 3-4 shift.

whats killing him is the ability of the zo6 to carry on 1000 rpm later .

 

[Nine Ball]

Agreed Seb, if the Viper could safely push 7000 rpm, it would walk away from the Z06 in this situation. That Paxton pulls HARD up to the redline, as you can see by the hp curve. If you could project that graph out to 7K rpm, the power would be quite a bit more. Not that the stock shortblock could handle it, however. I'm thinking the V10 just wasn't designed to rev like that.

I drove the Viper to work today, it is a nice 48F outside and sunny. I have a 45 mile commute, and the highways were pretty open. The Viper still feels very fun and very fast. I'm not saying I'm disappointed in the Viper, I love this car. Just seeing if anything simple can be done to give it a little more output. Eventually I'd like to twin-turbo it, but I have too many other vehicle projects going on for the next year.

 

[georgethedog]

Agreed Seb, if the Viper could safely push 7000 rpm, it would walk away from the Z06 in this situation. That Paxton pulls HARD up to the redline, as you can see by the hp curve. If you could project that graph out to 7K rpm, the power would be quite a bit more. Not that the stock shortblock could handle it, however. I'm thinking the V10 just wasn't designed to rev like that.

I drove the Viper to work today, it is a nice 48F outside and sunny. I have a 45 mile commute, and the highways were pretty open. The Viper still feels very fun and very fast. I'm not saying I'm disappointed in the Viper, I love this car. Just seeing if anything simple can be done to give it a little more output. Eventually I'd like to twin-turbo it, but I have too many other vehicle projects going on for the next year.

Hi Nine-ball, the problem with the TT setup is the cost. You can buy a nice Gen 1 for the same price. Maybe you have that kind of money (hope so and good for you) but I don't. Take care.

 

[VIPER R]

I think the simple answer is a twin screw supercharger outperforms a centrifugal supercharger on the street.

 

[RECOIL]

Not to come off topic but had anyone gone from a paxton to a roe?

 

[Seb]

solid lifters, pushrods, valvesprings.

 

[Seb]

wouldnt matter if the viper had a screw blower on it. The zo6 will still pull 1000 rpm more. A shift takes what a 2-3 tenths of a second each time? That equates to alot in car lengths. If we have a 2 identical z06's with screw blowers and 1 happens to pull 1000 rpm more guess who will always be ahead?

Now Im not saying it wouldnt help as when the rpm drops on the next shift he will be making power earlier but it wont change the outcome as what he might make up will be lost on the next shift he will have to make. 250 lbs is alot when it comes to mass acceleration.

This is talking close power levels this viper and vette make.

 

[Nine Ball]

solid lifters, pushrods, valvesprings.

The Viper engine builders I've discussed this with have said the oiling system on the V10 isn't adequate at high rpm. They starve the crank and spin rod bearings beyond 6200 rpm. That is a long crank, if you think about it.

 

[ROCKET62]

Can anyone provide any additional information regarding the restrictor plate with a paxton as I have not heard this discussed in the past.

Also - all the talk about Roe is a mute point here since there is NO Roe option for a Gen 3.

 

[FLATOUT]

Tony you really need to think about the restrictor plate idea.

Rocket it works like this.


Lets say Tony is running a pulley on the Paxton that allows his car to make 9lbs of boost. If you switch the pulley to a diameter that allows it to make say 13lbs of boost you'll obviously make a lot more power but on the stock motor have a much higher potential of breaking internals.

So you add a restrictor to limit the amount of total boost to say 9lbs on the 13lb pulley. The difference is the 13lb pulley builds boost much quicker but max's at 9lbs. It essentially adds more torque and changes the power band, but reaches peak boost sooner and holds it longer.

East Coast Supercharging on the Vette boards have been doing this to the Novi's on the Vette's for quite a few years now with amazing results. I added one to my old Vortech S Trim on my C5 Z06 and the car picked up power in the mid range.

It's not a complete fix but it did improve my old setup for about $10.

Andy Wheeler

 

[Seb]

The Viper engine builders I've discussed this with have said the oiling system on the V10 isn't adequate at high rpm. They starve the crank and spin rod bearings beyond 6200 rpm. That is a long crank, if you think about it.

yep and then a dry sump comes into play

 

[Nine Ball]

Andy, where did they install the restrictor plate on your C5? Just after the blower, or just before the throttle body? Do you remember how small the hole was, relative to the intake diameter?

 

[Red Snake]

Twin Screw/Roots ftw.

 

[tucker]

Twin Screw/Roots ftw.

^^^Very true. I would be curious to see how a Roe car at the same RWHP level as the Paxton fairs against the Z.

 

[audiowhiz]

Andy, where did they install the restrictor plate on your C5? Just after the blower, or just before the throttle body? Do you remember how small the hole was, relative to the intake diameter?

on my C5 it was in the intake just before the throttle body.

 

[georgethedog]

That is a long crank, if you think about it.

I've been told that... sorry, just sayin...

 

[Wicked]

You must be registered for see images attach

A couple of years ago I had a Paxton 06 Viper Coupe and Header/intake only 07 Z06. My viper Dyno'd at 666rwhp and my Z dyno'd 502rwhp on the same dyno.

From a roll race at 40 in both cars, the Z would pull ahead a car like in your case and by the time both cars were up to 140, the Viper would have pulled 1 car. Repeat the same race for a 2nd time, and my Z would walk the viper by 3 cars. I even had the upgraded intercooler.

At the track both cars ran the same 1/4mile mph of 129, with the Z running consistant 11.0's and the Viper running consistant 11.1's.

So why would the Viper with 160+ more rwhp not completely destroy my Z? Afterall even saying the Viper weighed 500#'s more(which it didnt), the extra hp should have more than made up for it.

It's simple. Gearing.

When you race your viper, your max power is right at redline 6,000 rpms. When you shift, your rpm's are going to drop down to roughly 4,000 rpms. Meaning after shift, your Viper is only putting down 450rwhp and builds back to 650rwhp. Average that out and your at 550rwhp for your usable RPM range.

When you race your Z06, your max power is 610rwhp. But your pulling to 7000 rpms AND with a flatter HP curve. So for Arugments sake, lets just say your max power is 600rwhp at 7,000rpms, after shift, and the 2000 rpm drop, your still at 550rwhp. Average that out and your Z averages 575rwhp over it's usable RPM Range. Add to that the little bit of weight difference, and there you go. 2-3 cars. The actual usable HP difference is really greater then that, as the Z makes the exact same power from 6000-7000. I wish I still had all my data and graphs, but I had all this maped out at one time.

You can also play with MPH's that you start at. My viper hit much harder at 30 and 50, where the Vett liked 40 and 60.

Hope this helps.
Jason

 

[KenricGTS]

I wonder how my polished head and intake K&Ns and ACRX long tubes do against a modded Z or Paxton Viper. I have a 10 ACR. Oh I forgot have the Mopar ECU

 

[Red Snake]

It's not the gearing. Its the hp and torque UNDER the curve (in the lower rpms). The paxton makes power in the higher rpms the PD blower KILLS it in the lower and midrange rpms (which is where you are for most of a street race).

 

[pumpgas]

I have the same two cars and the exact same thing bothered the crap out of me as well. A 2006 Supercharged Viper and a 2007 Z06. I did not but a blower on the Z however, just an exhaust, intake and tune. 487rwhp but it felt just as fast as the Viper did stock with just the blower.

There is no way around it. I tried forever. To get what you want, you will have to add forged pistons and forged rods. Not too bad actually $$ wise. Then put on the 15lb pulley. 850rwhp all day long. I do also run the snow performance **** system as well.

Tom

 

[Seb]

so when your racing what is the rpm that it drops to in each gear.

2-3=
3-4=

 

[plumcrazy]

id like to know the exact drop in rpms is. i bet its less than 1000 per shift no ?

 

[viperpat]

It's the gears 2006 viper has 3.07 axle ratio Z06 has 3.42 both cars have 6060 trans same gears 1st 2.66 2nd 1.78 3rd 1.30 4th 1.00 5th 0.74 6th 0.50
I have an 2008 viper my friend has 2009 we both have stock vipers with exhaust both cars ran very even in every gear until my friend changed his gears now he pulls me by 2 or more cars in every gear. The only reason viper has 3.07 gears is to get the gas mileage I’m almost at 195 mph when I shift to 6th unless I had thousand HP!!!! I don’t have enough power to to use 6th or get past 203MPH and there is a lot of RPM left in 6th so that Viper would need about 75 more HP to compensate for the gears of the z06 but if both cars had thousand HP the viper would top out at much higher speed and win. so change the viper gears that z06 will have a hard time staying with viper And yes my friends car still goes 200mph and I’m changing my gears too LOL

 

[viperpat]

And on top of that the Z06 shifts at 7000rpm vs the viper 6250 rpm so the z06 has about 2000 to 2500 rpm advantage in every gear!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and on top of that spinning that super charger quicker and longer in every gear.

 

[SquadX]

The z06 is just making more power under the curve. Plain and simple and as plum stated I bet the drop per shift is close to 1000 as opposed to 2000 Tleast when I shift I drop about a grand and I shift below average to average. Again a roe with same power would be nice to see in this line up.
If u changed the viper gears to 3.33 or 3.55 you'd have to shift sooner and same effect. That extra 800rpms the z06 has is hard to get by as well buy again more power under the curve. Clearly.

The z06 can do 80 on second gear. My viper with 3.55 is pretty much redline in 2nd at 60.
Switch out ur Paxton for a roe. More hp will help u but that's not impressive if you beat the z06 as you would have 100 more horses and just barely beat it.

Have you tried power shifting the viper?

 

[georgethedog]

So, if I came down from a different planet (some would say I did) and all I did was read this thread I would conclude that the Vette Z06 is a faster car and according to some opinions there isn't anything you can do about it (some say there are things to do, while others refute). Why buy a Viper would be my question especially since they are more expensive, are not as well equipped, and basically look the same at least from the front (sides slightly different and rear quite different)?

 

[VicTxV10]

It's the gears 2006 viper has 3.07 axle ratio Z06 has 3.42 both cars have 6060 trans same gears 1st 2.66 2nd 1.78 3rd 1.30 4th 1.00 5th 0.74 6th 0.50
I have an 2008 viper my friend has 2009 we both have stock vipers with exhaust both cars ran very even in every gear until my friend changed his gears now he pulls me by 2 or more cars in every gear. The only reason viper has 3.07 gears is to get the gas mileage I’m almost at 195 mph when I shift to 6th unless I had thousand HP!!!! I don’t have enough power to to use 6th or get past 203MPH and there is a lot of RPM left in 6th so that Viper would need about 75 more HP to compensate for the gears of the z06 but if both cars had thousand HP the viper would top out at much higher speed and win. so change the viper gears that z06 will have a hard time staying with viper And yes my friends car still goes 200mph and I’m changing my gears too LOL

2006 did not have 6060 tranny. That was new for 08.

 

[Twister]

Honestly.its just realy the roots vs paxton here...You trapped 134 mph on your paxton wich is actually quite impressive...

Ive noticed that in second gear races starting at 50 mph my srt10 is a slug and gets beat..then 1 minute later I race the same car that just beat me by 2-3 car lengths starting at 50 in second gear and race him again but this time starting in second gear at 70 mph....Dead even or I win by a car length


My srt10 is far from supercharged ect..But with the ligt weight hood/flywheel/crank pully/titanium exhasut/cat delete for under 3300 pounds and a lil under 500 rwhp Ive ran door to door with cammed Z06's and 600 awhp GTR's if I started the race in second gear at 70 mph....

race them again both at 70 mph in second gear...Bet its much closer...Even after you added power to the Z06