We have had a number of internal discussions here at APEX about providing a PERFORMANCE/POWER GUARANTEE with our products, parts, and packages. We decided that there was no one better than our current and future VIPER CUSTOMERS to help us out! So now is your chance to provide input for what a guarantee really means. You will see below how complicated this can become.
Now before everyone jumps in, here are the issues to consider and some of our thoughts:
1)Power guarantee: Usually a horsepower/tq guarantee on a specific part; ie cam, heads, exhaust, etc.. We have seen them in the form of engine/crank hp and dyno hp.
*ENGINE HP CLAIMS: It is very common to see hp claims that do not hold up. If it is an engine hp, it makes it difficult to measure, and most people won't pay the price to truly test this method. Then the actual car comes into question. Is guarantee on a stock car, modified car, or a combination, and then, how should other mods effect the power in the end.
*DYNO HP CLAIMS: This becomes tricky because every dyno is different, and the correction factors come really into play. For example, we have tested a number of combinations that claim X hp improvement. Many times, our dyno numbers come up short. Is it our dyno...maybe, but doubtful since we have the latest/greatest dynojet and use the most current software version. Maybe it's better since our dyno seems like it yields conservative numbers.
* FLOW/CFM CLAIMS:It is very common for people to receive heads or intakes that SHOULD flow *** cfm. When tested independently, they could flow less and sometimes, MUCH less. Were they tested on a different machine with different test pressures at different conditions? If they are different, what is an acceptable difference (since like dynos, flow testing is seldom identical between different facilities)
In the end, it seems guaranteed dyno hp performance numbers make sense, but there are so many variables that can effect the power. Case in point, we normally install Belanger headers with a Corsa or Belanger cat-back and have dyno'd MANY cars with this combination. While many Viper owners claim 40-50 rwhp on the dyno with this setup, our dyno usually indicates only a 25-30 rwhp improvement. It obviously doesn't make sense that our cars would make less power with the same parts, so I assume it's the dyno.Hmmmm...
2)CUSTOMER RECOURSE: What should we/you do??
OK... SO let's say you purchase an exhaust system or cam, header, rocker, etc.. package. It gets installed, and for some reason the power isn't there.
*MARKETING TRICK OR THE REAL DEAL? This is where a PERFORMANCE GUARANTEE gets really tricky! Traditionally and unfortunately, this is where most guarantee's fall apart and are nothing more than a 'ploy, hoax, etc'. We have worked with manufacturers/vendors that quickly back peddle when these incidents come up. HERE's what happens: The vendor/manufacturer requires that you remove the parts(at your own expense), pack up the parts (at your own expense), ship them back to them (at your own expense), and then you will be credited either fully or partially for the parts. In the end, you would pay a ton to remove and THEN re-install your parts, and it doesn't make monetary sense. In the end, you lose and are 'stuck' with them. WE DON'T WANT TO OFFER THESE, that's for sure!
* SITUATIONAL CIRCUMSTANCES:What if the parts are not installed at the tuner, vendor, or manufacturer?
* Is it realistic to provide a guarantee if the parts/packages are installed somewhere other than the source and the power is not as advertised. Is the installer's fault, was something done wrong, or did the parts just nor perform as promised? The same customer recourse situation comes into play.
4) Last, but equally important is another type of promise, more of a WARRANTY. What is the parts don't work, or cause a major failure or breakdown? Not as common, but it certainly happens.
* How should these situations be dealt with? Was the car not maintained properly. Was there another problem going on? If there is a problem, do you have to bring it back to the tuner or manufacturer OR can another shop be compensated for the work?
SUMMARY:As you can see, this situation is complicated!
As for consumers, be smart!!! Have the tuner, vendor, manufacturer put everything in writing and sign it!! If you are not satisfied with the warranty/guarantee, then have them change it so you are comfortable with it. Our job is to keep you happy and satisfied!!
We would welcome any suggestions, comments, etc..
If you prefer, you can e-mail me privately.
Thanks for your time, and we look forward to working with you to help you reach your VIPER GOALS!!
Regards,
Wayne (LTHL VPR)
Now before everyone jumps in, here are the issues to consider and some of our thoughts:
1)Power guarantee: Usually a horsepower/tq guarantee on a specific part; ie cam, heads, exhaust, etc.. We have seen them in the form of engine/crank hp and dyno hp.
*ENGINE HP CLAIMS: It is very common to see hp claims that do not hold up. If it is an engine hp, it makes it difficult to measure, and most people won't pay the price to truly test this method. Then the actual car comes into question. Is guarantee on a stock car, modified car, or a combination, and then, how should other mods effect the power in the end.
*DYNO HP CLAIMS: This becomes tricky because every dyno is different, and the correction factors come really into play. For example, we have tested a number of combinations that claim X hp improvement. Many times, our dyno numbers come up short. Is it our dyno...maybe, but doubtful since we have the latest/greatest dynojet and use the most current software version. Maybe it's better since our dyno seems like it yields conservative numbers.
* FLOW/CFM CLAIMS:It is very common for people to receive heads or intakes that SHOULD flow *** cfm. When tested independently, they could flow less and sometimes, MUCH less. Were they tested on a different machine with different test pressures at different conditions? If they are different, what is an acceptable difference (since like dynos, flow testing is seldom identical between different facilities)
In the end, it seems guaranteed dyno hp performance numbers make sense, but there are so many variables that can effect the power. Case in point, we normally install Belanger headers with a Corsa or Belanger cat-back and have dyno'd MANY cars with this combination. While many Viper owners claim 40-50 rwhp on the dyno with this setup, our dyno usually indicates only a 25-30 rwhp improvement. It obviously doesn't make sense that our cars would make less power with the same parts, so I assume it's the dyno.Hmmmm...
2)CUSTOMER RECOURSE: What should we/you do??
OK... SO let's say you purchase an exhaust system or cam, header, rocker, etc.. package. It gets installed, and for some reason the power isn't there.
*MARKETING TRICK OR THE REAL DEAL? This is where a PERFORMANCE GUARANTEE gets really tricky! Traditionally and unfortunately, this is where most guarantee's fall apart and are nothing more than a 'ploy, hoax, etc'. We have worked with manufacturers/vendors that quickly back peddle when these incidents come up. HERE's what happens: The vendor/manufacturer requires that you remove the parts(at your own expense), pack up the parts (at your own expense), ship them back to them (at your own expense), and then you will be credited either fully or partially for the parts. In the end, you would pay a ton to remove and THEN re-install your parts, and it doesn't make monetary sense. In the end, you lose and are 'stuck' with them. WE DON'T WANT TO OFFER THESE, that's for sure!
* SITUATIONAL CIRCUMSTANCES:What if the parts are not installed at the tuner, vendor, or manufacturer?
* Is it realistic to provide a guarantee if the parts/packages are installed somewhere other than the source and the power is not as advertised. Is the installer's fault, was something done wrong, or did the parts just nor perform as promised? The same customer recourse situation comes into play.
4) Last, but equally important is another type of promise, more of a WARRANTY. What is the parts don't work, or cause a major failure or breakdown? Not as common, but it certainly happens.
* How should these situations be dealt with? Was the car not maintained properly. Was there another problem going on? If there is a problem, do you have to bring it back to the tuner or manufacturer OR can another shop be compensated for the work?
SUMMARY:As you can see, this situation is complicated!
As for consumers, be smart!!! Have the tuner, vendor, manufacturer put everything in writing and sign it!! If you are not satisfied with the warranty/guarantee, then have them change it so you are comfortable with it. Our job is to keep you happy and satisfied!!
We would welcome any suggestions, comments, etc..
If you prefer, you can e-mail me privately.
Thanks for your time, and we look forward to working with you to help you reach your VIPER GOALS!!
Regards,
Wayne (LTHL VPR)
