Putting a new cam i'n few questions

[happy]

I have a 02 gts and have the creampuff cam how much work is involved i'n putting a bigger cam i'n?? And what cam do you guys recommend?? I like a real nice lumpy idle and mine dosent have that.,,

 

[plumcrazy]

greg good is going to be your best for info and he sells cams.

to do the cam, the heads have to come off so its a "might as well" kinda thing. greg is the man for head work. some guys around here are going to say to do the 708 cam. thats a stupid thing to do with having to do all that work. if youre going to do that work, you might as well put a much better cam in there. and there are MUCH better cams available to us.

talk to him about a package and also search for vipertony's thread. he did the same thing recently with a lot of info and details on how to do it.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

I gotta agree with Plum. If you're going that far into it you might as well go further with head work.

Yep, Greg Good is the goto guy.

 

[EllowViper]

Send your bleed-down lifters to Greg as well so he can turn them into solid roller lifters. Get a set of 1.7 roller rockers as well.

 

[Vipuronr]

Not to sound redundant (redundant, redundant), but agree with Plum as well. Why take the top of your motor apart and only do the cam. Car will run much stronger if you do the other work and actually, doesn't really make sense to only do the cam. 1.7 rr's are a definite as well as some nice head work...Greg Good seems to be "the man" for this kind of work.

Tony just finished his car, so looking at the work he did would be a good start. His car is running real strong and sounds incredible!

Good luck!

 

[happy]

thanks guys!!

 

[SquadX]

Talk to chuck tator, you can do the cam swap without removing the heads but Im sure few have the experience to do this but as mention, do the heads while your at it. Not worth it not too.

 

[97snk]

Talk to chuck tator, you can do the cam swap without removing the heads but Im sure few have the experience to do this but as mention, do the heads while your at it. Not worth it not too.

I agree, I don't think you will have to remove your heads...just remove valve covers and push rods, unbolt the motor mounts, pull fan out, jack the motor up,

Here's what I remember from when I did my head/cam, I'll skip the heads removal...

1. disconnect battery
2. drain oil
3. remove valve covers
4. loosen Rockers/remove push rods
5. unbolt motor mounts
6. remove fans
7. jack the motor up as far as it goes
8. remove timing cover - there's a thread on the directions
9. remove oil pan
10. remove cam
11. install cam

do it all over in reverse order...

EDIT:

Ignore my post...list to the guys below...

 

[EllowViper]

...a bit misleading. Something needs to be done about lifters in the lifter bore. You can get at the retainers and retainer bolts with some "creative" drive extensions, flex joints, magnets, etc...working around the head gasket obstructions. And then pull each lifter with an appropriate magnetic tool. Lifters cannot be completely removed from under the head due to the head gasket being in the way. So you end up with 20 lifters hanging off magnets and what not. All in all just easier to remove the heads to get at the lifters. If you do pull the head, make sure you "modify" the replacement gasket to allow removal of the lifters in the future should that be necessary. The part of the head gasket that you modify for lifter access does not effect the gasket. You just remove the pushrod guide portion that isn't needed anyways. Once you pull a valve cover, you'll see the situation.

 

[plumcrazy]

thats why i said the heads come off. and taking the heads off is easy compared to the rest of the stuff you did to get to that point.

and add: ARP head bolts to while you're in there

 

[ViperTony]

I have a 02 gts and have the creampuff cam how much work is involved i'n putting a bigger cam i'n?? And what cam do you guys recommend?? I like a real nice lumpy idle and mine dosent have that.,,

This sounds familiar...LOL. I did a greg good cam, had him port/polish/flow my heads. Definitely worth talking to. Some info here: http://forums.viperclub.org/rt-10-gts-discussions/633639-my-creampuff-na-build.html best feeling in the world sitting in the Viper and feeling it rockin' along with the cam.

 

[EllowViper]

Woodhouse mounts amplify the 'rockin - n - rollin'....actually get a little headlight shudder now at idle.

 

[Vipuronr]

Tony et al, I know yours is a 2001 and has the later Gen II cam. How different is the cam you put in from that of the earlier (thru '99) Gen II cam. I've heard that the earlier Gen II cam is actually a pretty good cam and, now that you mentioned "rocking with the cam", my car does that when it idles (but maybe not to the extent yours does).I did notice you run a higher idle, no doubt required for the cam.

Here is the lift/duration for the GG cam (I think this is right):
Lift
w/1.7 ratio Duration
Exhaust 607 285
Intake 602 281

Did some searching and found (what I think) are the numbers for the factory cam, but now confused about what cam with what year. Anyway, post in Viper Ally says lift of 542 for '98-'02 and 541 for 96/97. The 98/99 cam was listed as best because it had the bigger lift and bigger overlap (66.0 degrees). In 2000, they went to 60.0 degree overlap accounting for a somewhat smoother idle. Not sure how accurate this is, but love to see comparable numbers for the GG cam.

Any help?

 

[Twister]

The 708 cam from the 96-99 is actually a step up from the 200-2002..

It's at 66.0 vs 60.0 for the later years and is lumpier and makes about 10 more rwhp..

96-99 dyno 405-415 while the 200-2002 hit 390-405

Sean Roe has great cams for the gen3 claiming 70 HP increases..Not sure about the gen2 but Id defiently check them out

 

[happy]

For sure I'll check them out!!

 

[ViperTony]

Tony et al, I know yours is a 2001 and has the later Gen II cam. How different is the cam you put in from that of the earlier (thru '99) Gen II cam.

The spec for GG cam is here: http://forums.viperclub.org/2853089-post81.html It's different but Greg can explain it better than I. I just do what he (and Phil) says. I considered swapping out for a 708 cam. I like lumpy, but I wanted power so I went with a more aggressive cam to match Greg's aggressive work on my heads. The lumpiness happened to be a nice side benefit. What you hear from my Viper is the combination of GG's head and cam work. The 708 will never sound like my Viper.

I scared my friend's mother off the toilet last weekend after I dropped him off and left his house. She thought armageddon was coming. It babies and old folks...what's not to love about this setup? I love Greg's work.

 

[plumcrazy]

the 708 is good, but there are MUCH better cams. see tonys build !

GG rocks !

 

[Vipuronr]

Plum, no doubt there are better after market cams out there, but of the factory stock Gen 1/2 cams, the 708 is the strongest... correct? And so, unless you're doing some major mods, it doesn't pay to change out the 708.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Depends on what you're going for too, road racing or drag? Road likes more duration and drag likes more lift...or the other way around. Hell, I don't remember anymore.

 

[1TONY1]

...a bit misleading. Something needs to be done about lifters in the lifter bore. You can get at the retainers and retainer bolts with some "creative" drive extensions, flex joints, magnets, etc...working around the head gasket obstructions. And then pull each lifter with an appropriate magnetic tool. Lifters cannot be completely removed from under the head due to the head gasket being in the way. So you end up with 20 lifters hanging off magnets and what not. All in all just easier to remove the heads to get at the lifters. If you do pull the head, make sure you "modify" the replacement gasket to allow removal of the lifters in the future should that be necessary. The part of the head gasket that you modify for lifter access does not effect the gasket. You just remove the pushrod guide portion that isn't needed anyways. Once you pull a valve cover, you'll see the situation.

I'm not understanding what you are saying about the lifter retainers/bolts etc. You do not need to touch them to use magnets on the lifters. The lifters do not need to come out of the bore. I've done several this way.

You also do not need to tilt the engine...I never touch the motor or trans mounts. It does take pulling the A/C condenser forward just a hair....that's a two minute job compared to doing the mounts.

 

[1TONY1]

Hell, I don't remember anymore.

Good advice Chuck

 

[BOTTLEFED]

Haha, I love seeing people post advice on cam replacement that have never done it

 

[EllowViper]

I would like to see a video of someone holding all 20 lifters up in their bores with the retainers in place and heads still on. Heck a picture would even suffice. Not to doubt those that have done it...but I didn't think there was enough clearance for the roller of the lifter to clear the lobes as the cam is being slid out. Even if the lifter is pulled (by a magnet) to its max height in its bore. I have to chuckle thinking to myself it would take me longer to orchestrate that manuever (if possible) than taking the heads off.

 

[Vipuronr]

Back to specs (sorry)

Can someone post a comparison of specs - lift, duration, overlap - for the 708, later gen II cam, GG and any others that are recommended for Gen II motors?

Appreciate it!

 

[EllowViper]

I will scan my cam card that COMP CAMS cut for me for use with my blower later tonight. Able to use the stock valves with only upgraded springs as well. Running a tight lash solid roller even though it can be used as a hydraulic roller cam.

 

[1TONY1]

I would like to see a video of someone holding all 20 lifters up in their bores with the retainers in place and heads still on. Heck a picture would even suffice. Not to doubt those that have done it...but I didn't think there was enough clearance for the roller of the lifter to clear the lobes as the cam is being slid out. Even if the lifter is pulled (by a magnet) to its max height in its bore. I have to chuckle thinking to myself it would take me longer to orchestrate that manuever (if possible) than taking the heads off.

I have posted a picture either here or at the Alley within the last two years or so. It's not in either of my galleries so it must have been an attachment. It may take me some days to find it. Myself and Ringgold Dodge share 20 large head orange magnets from Harbor Freight. I use the black/orange plastic spring clamps to hold the magnet shaft up and I think the Dodge dealer uses rubber bands.

Magnets:
5 Lb. Telescoping Magnetic Pickup Tool
Clamps like this but seems like I bought a bag full...if not from HF than from Lowes or Home Depot. I like the larger clamps: 3-1/2" Spring Clamp

 

[EllowViper]

Well I stand corrected. Still would be a circus de soleil process for me personally. But good to know there are options.

 

[fe4snake]

I have a 02 gts and have the creampuff cam how much work is involved i'n putting a bigger cam i'n?? And what cam do you guys recommend?? I like a real nice lumpy idle and mine dosent have that.,,

Hey Happy,

Like Plum said you should do the heads if you are going to do the cam.

Also there are two ways to remove your cam from the engine. The first way is to pull the engine out completely. The second way is to remove the radiator, A/C condensor and front facia. I have done it a few times and both ways are fine. It just depends on what you are going to do to the engine. A word of warning make sure you remove the oil pan before removing or especially installing the timing cover or you can find yourself buying a new timing cover and they are not cheap.

I just completed a new engine build with pistons, rods, sleeves, cam and new cylinder heads. If interested, I have a new fresh set of Greg Good cylinder heads that he did for my Gen 2 that I'm thinking of not keeping. PM me if you think this something you might need.

 

[QUICKSRT10/SRT8]

i put the comp coupe cam in on my viper truck

 

[ViperTony]

No need to pull the radiator or fascia. Check my thread below for how I did it, just tilted the engine up and nudged the crossmember out of the way. Easy.