Quick recap of latest G-Tech results: Z06 is faster than Viper 0-60

[Y2K5SRT]

Great numbers and thanks for doing the comparison for us! Now, did you try your new launch technique with the Viper? I suspect you may find that you will get similar reductions in time with the Snake. Let us know!

Chris

 

[Marc Lublin]

The thing to look at here is that both cars are stock. Like so many Viper owners you will probably modify the car. I think a modified Viper has alot more potential than a modified Vette. You have many more cubic inches to help breathe better.

 

[Venom Lover]

Chris,
Excellent point about trying the same technique on the Viper. I'll let you know as soon as I get the Viper back on the road with street tires.

Dennis,
I was running 30 psi cold. As soon as I feel I'm getting a good reproduceable launch, I'll start lowering the pressure to see if it helps. However, I see from the Vette forum that guys are getting 1.79-1.80 sec 60 ft times with 30-32 psi, so heaven help us if that can be reduced by lowering the rear tire pressure!

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Marc,
Note that my Viper already has some mods. I'm dynoing at 450 rwhp and 480 rwft-lbs (SAE corrected on a Dynojet). No dyno results on the Z06 yet, but if I had to guess, I would say around 335 rwhp and about the same rwft-lbs. (Most guys with broken in Z06's are dynoing about 7-10 hp & ft-lbs higher than those numbers.) So, if one thing is clear, it is that I'm very traction-limited on the Viper. But I also agree with you, at 56 fwhp/liter for the Viper vs. 70 fwhp/liter for the Z06, there has to be way more potential in the Viper motor (I'm giving the Z06 credit for 400 fwhp, which is what most guys are getting). Also, consider that Chevy has already done a bunch of the tuner tricks on the Z06, including more aggressive gears (at least 1st-3rd), increased compression ratio, etc.

Ron, Ron, Ron,
Why are you so mean to me?

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Did I not say that the Viper is ultimately faster past 60 mph? Now, let's say for sake of argument that I can get my launch down to achieve 1.8 sec 60 ft times (if I can, I will be very happy -- we shall see -- I'm not promising anything!). That will shave more than two tenths off my ET, as many seasoned drag racers will attest. Let's say for sake of argument it shaves 0.3-0.4 sec off my ET (my best 60 ft time was 2.001 sec on Sunday as you know). Next, my motor is still breaking in. Weekend before last, I ran a best of 13.0 at 111.2 mph at Carlsbad with 700 mile on the car. I don't know what 13.4 at 104 mph in Palmdale translates to at sea level, but I'm guessing around 12.9. This is pretty typical for Z06's with <2000 miles from what I understand. Once the engine is fully broken in (3000+ miles), people are achieving 12.0-12.4 at 117+ mph with the Z06. Bone stock, including tire pressure. Maybe those guys have extra-strong running cars, but in any case, I'm thinking my motor will ultimately give me another 4-5 mph and another 0.2-0.3 sec. That puts my in the low to mid-12's at 115+ mph at Pomona or Carlsbad once the car is fully broken in and I know how to drive it! Your 12.5 at Palmdale will translate to around 12.0 at Pomona. That puts you dead even with the best Z06 numbers I've seen. I might add that you are not stock with your gears and flywheel, so it isn't even really a fair comparison (at least not a comparison of stock to stock). If you let me modify the Z06 enough, I'm sure I can beat your modified Viper -- no point in even going there.

Finally, as far as Pomona on the 9th and 10th, I hate to disappoint you but I'll be bringing the snake with my new Mickey Thompson setup, so actually I believe it is <u>I</u> who doesn't need to worry much.

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(Actually, you should stay away from me as I try to learn to do wet burnouts!)

 

[SoCal Rebell]

Mike, Mike, Mike,
I ain't mean to you, I luv ya that's why I give you smack, that an I'm a little jealous you got two cool cars and I only have one now. Take you anger out on me at Pomona, I know with slicks you'll spank me.
As far as my car not being stock well the Vette has the same gear as me and I don't think the flywheel has anything to do with anything. But one thing for sure once you get your technique down on the Vette I'd LOVE to run ya, you're a better driver judging from reaction times but I will practice. Don't take what I say seriously, I talk smack to you because your a good guy and have alot of the same competetive juices as me.

Ron (SoCal Rebell)

 

[Matt M PA]

I simply can't believe that the Vette is quicker than the GTS. This is not meant to be nasty about Vettes either. (Although I have never had any interest in owning one) All I can think is that your G-Tech is less than accurate. Correct me if I am wrong, but all it does is plug into your cig lighter. How does it know when you raeached 60? If you have to get off the throttle at 60, or press a button for the G-Tech know you hit 60...maybe the speedometer is late at reporting during harder acceleration in the Viper?

 

[Venom Lover]

Matt,
The G-Tech is an accelerometer. That means it measures g-forces, and it does so 400 times per second. According to the laws of physics, velocity is determined by integrating the measured acceleration curve (numerically), and then distance is determined by numerically integrating the resulting velocity curve. This is all done based on internal acceleration measurements, not based on any manual or electronic connection to the car's speedometer or anything else. True, it plugs into the cigarette lighter, but that's for power only. In short, accoridng to the laws of physics, the G-Tech knows you've reached 60 when the measured area under the acceleration curve reaches 60.

The G-Tech has been shown to have a very high degree of precision, i.e., repeatability of results, to within hundredths of a second. The G-Tech has also been shown to have accuracy within a tenth of a second in the quarter mile, and better than that for 0-60. The accuracy is biased about a tenth of a second on the slow side on the drag strip, for reasons I won't go into here, but that bias does not affect 0-60 results. Suffice it to say that it has been shown in a number of tests that for 0-60 and quarter mile results, the G-Tech is very precise and very accurate as well. If you like, I can show you some of my own time slips comparing Pomona results with G-Tech results.

In short, I believe the results are a fair comparison between the Viper and the Z06. About all you can say is that I know how to drive my Z06 for better potential on street tires than my Viper. Note that on slicks, my Viper still kicks a** on my Z06 (on street tires).

Ron,
I was mostly kidding you, talking some smack back, though I guess I got a bit defensive. We do have the same competitive spirit! Actually, I'm not sure I'm a better driver. In fact, I'm jealous of your 60' times! We'll see how December goes. I am worried about getting this burnout thing down -- though, once I have it, I know I'm going to love it!

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[Matt M PA]

Mike..
Thanks for the info on the G-Tech. I was considering buying one of those but just could not see how it would be accurate. I understand that the cig lighter is just for power, and that was my point. You see, I still can't understand how it works accurately, when it does not ready anything other than "G". I may just have to buy one now that someone has told me that they work...and work well. By the way..to get a 0-60 reading...what do you have to do with the unit?
Thanks!

 

[Venom Lover]

You're not going to like this, but here it is.

Last weekend I did G-Tech runs on my Z06 and Viper, and my best on the Z06 was 4.39 sec compared to 4.29 sec on the Viper (both on street tires). I do think my Michelin Pilots are starting to lose it on the Viper (11,000 miles, original tires). Later with slick, I got 3.93 sec on the Viper and probably could've shaved another tenth or so with a proper burnout and more aggressive launch.

Yesterday on the way home (late ~ 8:30 pm), I decided to practice a new launch technique that was recommended by one of the Z06 guys who was getting 12.4s-12.5s in his Z06 with 1.8 sec 60 ft times. He revs to 2000 rpm, then slips the clutch while quickly applying throttle. (I was revving to 3500 rpm and dumping the clutch, which gave me a best 60 ft time 2.001 sec at Palmdale on Sunday.)

So, first run, I bog (it felt bad), but I managed to turn 4.39 sec, same as my best last weekend. Second run, I get more aggressive with the throttle, and I spin half way through first gear. Felt bad, but that run was 4.31 sec. The third run was like magic: it all clicked and the car shot out of the hole. It was so smooth and impressive in acceleration I had to really focus to make sure I got the right shift point (6000 rpm). 4.15 sec 0-60. I called it quits after that third run, but I'm sure with more miles on the motor (1400 right now, still being broken in) and more practice, I can shave another tenth on street tires. So, Chevy's claim of 4.0 0-60 is definitely within reach!

All that's being said, I still think the Viper is faster past 60 mph. However, there are guys on the Vette forum posting 12.00x quarter mile times with 117-118 mph trap speeds. Bone stock, street tires. Not bad for only 350 cubes, eh?

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[SoCal Rebell]

Venom Lover, the proof is on the track, the Z06 did not show to much last Sunday (best run against me was 13.43), a new launch might net a couple of tenths. I don't think the snakes need to worry too much, I guess we'll find out Dec. 9-10 at Pomona (SMACK).

Ron (SoCal Rebell)

 

[SoCal Rebell]

David, I'm sorry I MUST disagree with you, I beleive the Viper quicker then the Z06 in a straight line. On a road course it's probably close. On the track last Sunday I turned a 1.815 60 ft. time, best for the Z06 2.001 both with street tires, with the only Viper mod being a 3.54 gear. Granted the Z06 might of needed more break in time, and with a little practice and getting used to the car run a better 60 ft. but it was my first time running the snake and feel I can get better 60 ft. times.

Ron (SoCal Rebell)

 

[dtittle]

Hey Mike,

Your write-up was great! Unfortunate for the more expensive Viper but I think the Z06 is a little quicker in the short gears. More RPM, lower gear ratios, lighter weight, and enough power (but not too much) to make 1st, 2nd, and 3rd really spank. My Z06 can beat my 2000 GTS almost every time stoplight to stoplight.

I'll see this weekend how the Z06 holds up against Vipers on the track as I'm leaving in a few minutes to attend Viper Days at TWS and hopefully can give some Vipers a run for the money.

I'm going to use the GTS to display my brake systems this weekend as there will be (I think 6 or 7) other cars running with the brakes.

C-Ya There,

 

[FUSCUCLA1]

Can you explain the launching method you use on your viper. How high are the RPMs before you start to release the clutch, how much wheel spin, shift points? Also, is it possible to get the viper to shoot out of the hole w/o any wheel spin and still get a time thats competitive? The reason I ask is b/c I can get low HP cars to shoot off the line like rockets but the viper either bogs or gets wheelspin, so I am wondering maybe the HP and torque are too high to get it to shoot out like the low HP car.

 

[Jeff-00-ACR]

I'm not sure how official the G-Tech results should be taken, but good write up. I went out to the track Friday night for the first time and ran a 12.096 at 118.53 in my bone stock ACR, and the best times I saw for the Z06s were in the 12.6s. My 60' time was 1.97 which again remember this was my first time out..ever..in any car on the 1/4 mile track. Also I just returned from todays Autocross and I annihilated every corvette out there including 2 Z06s, and it was a VERY tight track. I turned a 53.1 sec lap and the 2 Z06s were in the 57s and 58s. Not trying to be argumentative and I don't own both as you do, but I like to see it happen on the track.

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BTW: Dec 17th is the Porsche/Corvette Autocross shootout at the Houston Police Academy. Here is the Z06s chance to prove me wrong!

Jeff

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[FUSCUCLA1]

Best I have gotten on a gtech is 4.96, my first run was 5.25, but hey I am new at this and I had a 210 pound passenger. I need to figure out just exactly how to launch the thing, and I have been playing with shift points between 5200 and redline, but the launches arent consistent so I cant determine which shift point is optimal.

 

[Venom Lover]

Allen,

On street tires, my best launches have been accomplished by revving to 1800 rpm and dumping the clutch. Any higher revs, and I get too much wheel spin. However, with this launch technique, the car does bog a bit. Note my dyno numbers above -- I tend to agree with your comment, with serious hp/torque numbers, launching on street tires is pretty tough. Also note that I haven't had a chance to go back and try applying the same launch technique on the Viper, as Chris suggested. I'll keep you posted. Also, I still think that the age of my street tires is costing me.

Ron,

Let's swap rides some time. I'd love to experience the Viper with the lower gearing (since I'm likely to change to a 3.54 rear end some day), and you should try the Z06. I'm sure you can get 1.8 sec 60 ft times consistently with your Viper. I know the same is possible with the Z06. Best I've seen is 1.79 sec on street tires. Whether I'm able to achieve this is another question. In any case, you should also borrow my G-Tech (or buy your own) and post your 0-60 times. I bet you can get 4.0-4.1 sec.

Bottom line is that I believe to 60 mph, it's close between the Viper and Z06. Above that, clearly the Viper has the advantage in straight line acceleration.

David,

Please let us know how your track event went!

 

[Venom Lover]

Hey, Darth, I'm the guy who ran 13.4 at Palmdale, so chill out.

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Why don't you post your best G-Tech 0-60 time, and then we'll talk about who can drive and who can't....

If you go back and read the whole thread, you'll see that the 13.4 was at Palmdale, which is at 2600 ft, and so ETs are at least 0.5 sec worse than tracks nearer to sea level. I also note that if my new launch technique buys me at least 0.1-0.2 sec in 60 ft time, which I believe it will, then I should be running in the mid-12's.

Ok, now I'm waiting to hear your best 0-60 time....The time to beat is 4.15 sec!

 

[SoCal Rebell]

You tell em Mike. I would be happy to swap rides any time you want. How crowded do you thing Pomona is going to be? Any idea of how many runs we can get? I'd love to shoot for a 12 flat. See ya!!!

Ron (SoCal Rebell)


Live as long as you want too, want to as long as you live.

 

[Venom Lover]

Darth,
In re-reading my message, I think I over-reacted a bit. It was early in the morning, and perhaps I was crabby about being back at the office. Anyway, you seem like a cool guy, and I suppose you didn't mean anything personal. I admit I have no time slips in my Z06 that I'm proud of yet, but I hope to correct that soon.

Ron,
As far as Pomona on the 9th-10th, definitely go on Saturday if you can. Less "rice" and more muscle cars, which are always more fun to watch (for me anyway). Also, it tends to mean fewer break-downs on the track than on Sunday. However, for every Honda fewer on Saturday, there will be one more Chevy! You won't get anywhere near as many runs as Palmdale. Probably 5-6 runs if you stay all day. 4-5 runs on Sunday. Still, it's worth it, because it's a great track. Since you got a 12.5 at Palmdale, you will definitely achieve 12 flat. Your objective should be to break into the 11's!

 

[Supercharged Vipermad]

Hi Gang, there have been some impressive times put down by the ZO-6...And for all intense and purposes that MAY be true...But one thing in life I always practiced "Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear"...Johnny...

 

[Supercharged Vipermad]

Dave Tittle brought his Z06 to Texas World Speedway last weekend, and while it's a VERY fast and competent car, it is not as fast as a Viper. Coming onto the front straightaway you could visibly see the difference as the cars were accelerating from 3rd through 5th gear.

Dave was nice enough to take me for a ride, and the brakes (his Wildwood package) were nothing short of amazing. He was able to brake literally 3 times later than I was. It felt like the car could handle similar corner speeds, but clearly didn't have as much steam coming off of the many 3rd gear corners. I'm sure off a stoplight the Z06 would hook up and pull the Viper, but once the Viper is in 2nd gear it's just a matter of time before the Z06 gets caught. All in all, an amazing car for 50K.

My advice is be careful with a Z06 because even though it's not quite as fast it is VERY close under 100.