Ralph in Automobile magazine

[Paul Hawker]

Automobile magazine has some nice things to say about what is popular at Viper.

http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_s...illes-downplays-rumors-of-srt-barracuda-dart/

Looks like he has a pretty good handle on what Viper Owners want.

 

[Bruce H.]

Excellent article. Such a relief to hear Ralph discuss direction and express such confidence. He seems fine with lower sales, although he'd have to naturally like more. Doesn't sound like the words of a desperate man.

He knows he's building an iconic supercar not so unlike the Greatest Analogue Supercars assembled by Evo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCpCbZaD8xc&feature=player_embedded

Bruce

 

[VENOM V]

My favorite quote regarding adding more HP:

"Good lord, son. It's got plenty of power!"
"We had that discussion internally -- let's go up to the moon with power -- but we focused on power-to-weight ratio," Gilles says. "There's always a handful of [customers] who would want more power, more for bragging rights than actual usage. But in terms of balancing the car's weight and how it drives, 640 [hp] was the sweet spot."

 

[Bobpantax]

SRT should buy the Ad at the beginning of the YouTube spot and run a 20 second Viper Ad.

Excellent article. Such a relief to hear Ralph discuss direction and express such confidence. He seems fine with lower sales, although he'd have to naturally like more. Doesn't sound like the words of a desperate man.

He knows he's building an iconic supercar not so unlike the Greatest Analogue Supercars assembled by Evo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCpCbZaD8xc&feature=player_embedded

Bruce

 

[BigDawg]

My favorite quote regarding adding more HP:

"Good lord, son. It's got plenty of power!"
"We had that discussion internally -- let's go up to the moon with power -- but we focused on power-to-weight ratio," Gilles says. "There's always a handful of [customers] who would want more power, more for bragging rights than actual usage. But in terms of balancing the car's weight and how it drives, 640 [hp] was the sweet spot."

That's a politician speaking. If he had the budget there's no way he'd have used a slightly updated Gen IV motor for the supposed "all-new" Viper. He's justifying it because there is nothing else he can do about it. More or less letting people down softly who had higher hopes. This whole generation will more than likely be on a shoestring budget. That, or Ralph's a poker player and he knows the 700+NA HP direction injection high displacement V10 is already underway.

 

[Bobpantax]

Call me naive but I think that Ralph meant what he said. At 640 HP, the Viper, unless I am missing something, is the highest naturally aspirated HP road racer on the street. Don't the other high HP cars all have superchargers or turbos?

After driving my TA for a bit more than 1000 miles after previously driving my Paxtonized and modified Gen III, I can assure you that many people who buy the Gen V will never drive it anywhere close to its limits. Its power will scare them. Ralph is/was right. In many cases it is just about bragging rights.

Producing the Gen V in the current regulatory environment was a small miracle. Ralph and the SRT team deserve alot of credit for their work and for keeping the faith.

 

[ViperSmith]

Ralph and Co had $X dollars to spend on the project, they spent it where they got the most bang for the buck. Building the engine out to have >700HP would have been a significant investment and chewed up a lot of that cash, IMHO.

So, they invested where the greatest ROI is.

 

[Twister]

640 hp naturally asperated is just behind the 690 hp Aventador

 

[Paul Hawker]

While I love horsepower, I agree with Bob here.

I also had a 800 hp Paxton Gen III, and while it was fun and exciting, it was also very dangerous and often out of control. I am actually much faster road racing in my Gen IV with 620 hp than with the Paxton. I can remember driving through the traps at a Phoenix drag strip, and spinning the wheels due to the boost. Times were worse than now with my Gen IV as I could not control the traction variability as the boost went up and down.

SRT only has so much developmental time they can spend on their engines, and while peak hp is always good for bragging rights, they also must satisfy the noise, vibration, fuel economy, durability, cost, drivability, producability, and other parameters.

I know that Ralph and Winkles were tweaking the computer most of the way when they made their epic last minute calibration run from Florida to California. They ended up at Willow Springs Raceway, and put tons of laps on their pre-production car, getting those last minute data points before buttoning up the calibration.

Not sure how much more they could have done to optimize the Viper driving experience and HP numbers.

For many, they will say, just put on stickier tires, but that results in more things breaking and reliability going down. Then you need to beef up all the breaking things, and that makes the car heavier and more expensive.

I feel the the engineers have done a fine job with balancing out the engine, chassis, braking, drivability equation. The new Gen is quite the car, and for those who have driven it, it often exceeds expectations (but not always wishes).

Very few of the people compaining about a lack of hp numbers are up to getting everything out of the production Viper that it can offer.

In a like manner I was amused to see that Bugatti has revisited the HP ratings of their Veryon. The just went from +1,000 hp to +++1,000 hp. For many of us, there is never enough HP!

 

[Bobpantax]

Not bad for the Viper considering the 2014 Aventador coupe's base price is $397,500.00; it weighs 3472 pounds;and, and it has a stock compression ratio of 11.8 to one. The SRT Viper has a base price of $102,485.00; weighs 3354 pounds;and, has a compression ratio of 10.2 to one. The Aventador's power to weight ratio is 5.031 and the Viper's is 5.24. With that high a compression ratio, to mod the Aventador will probably cost near what the Viper costs not that the average Aventador buyer would be concerned about that. I'd say overall that the Viper is a screaming bargain for an NA car of its caliber.

 

[Bruce H.]

640 hp naturally asperated is just behind the 690 hp Aventador

I believe they usually say "the most torque of any naturally aspirated engine", which at 600 lbft rather convincingly exceeds the Aventador's 507 lbft. And what's up with that car's dinky 255f and 335r tires? That's just whack

 

[VENOM V]

Does anyone honestly believe that the typical Viper owner would be faster on a road course in a 700HP Gen V than with 640HP? Try keeping the tires from going up in smoke and owners sliding off the course with 700HP. 640HP truly is the sweet spot. Experienced track rats could benefit, but the casual tracker wouldn't. Want to give the Gen V a rep for being even more difficult to approach the limits, just keep increasing the HP.

Ralph meant what he said, and he was dead on. 640HP is plenty, unless you want to win a bench race.

 

[Bruce H.]

I think it likely that out of the tiny percentage of Gen 5 owners that go on a road course (vs Auto-X and strip), that many of those may be rather experienced, will either drive a TA, Track Pack with alignment, ACR (?), and those driver's would benefit from more power on a high-speed track. The way that extra hp would be produced would likely not even be noticable from the driver's seat. Torque below say 4000 would likely remain the same, as would peak torque (closer to 4800 rpm). Small improvements to high rpm volumetric efficiency above that would reduce the torque dropping off above that and produce the bump in the horsepower peak. The car would not feel like it was pulling any harder, even though at high rpm it would be compared to one at 640 hp.

Less experienced drivers might be more likely to short shift closer to 5k and not get into the increased power range, while others would use it down the straights...and then have to brake that much earlier to make the next corner. I wouldn't turn away more power, but I think it will take a long, long time before I think I just don't have enough! And since it's not in their plans for now, or maybe ever, or something I'll need anytime soon, I'm just not going to give it much thought.

Bruce

 

[DingDong]

The car absolutely needs more power. Period.

However, the amount (and how you get it) is debatable based on whether you are a straight line or road race kinda guy!

I think one area they could easily improve on is the valvetrain. The camshaft is anemic!!! A little more duration (just a little) and about .600 lift would really wake this thing up and broaden the torque curve big time!! That would be huge! Then, throw on some roller rockers so we can spin this monster a little faster and I think we'd all be a little happier. I'd dare say we could achieve 700 HP NA with these minor changes!! That's HUGE!

I'm hopeful to design a new camshaft grind to better augment the mods I've done to my Gen V. However, it's AMAZING how well this motor responds to boost just as it is! If Dodge was smart, they'd offer an aftermarket blower or TT option for this car for those of us that require 800+ RWHP.

 

[utahviper]

I think the new limited edition cars have been really nice. I really like the TA. 640 HP is plenty if it is putting the power down efficiently. Look at the 911 (530-540hp). It puts down some of the best1/4 mile times and great trap speeds. 640hp is enough if they had a much better traction control system where the launch control works effectively. Right now, it basically doesnt really work. look at mcclarens launch control, 1.7-1.6 60' times from a "road race" car. Losing weight would also be a good thing. SRt needs to spend more time on getting the power down more efficiently and getting the technology into the car to make it better. I know it had little technology before but in the day and age we are in, that is the difference between HP wars and techno wars. Almost all of the cars that are faster than the viper have less HP and more technology. Very few have more HP. The drive train is where it's at. Transmission, rear ends, and technology that really works.

Competitors- corvette, mcclaren, Porsche, Ferrari 458, gallardo, r8, huracan, etc. all with less HP and more technology.

Go SRT!

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

As far as power goes just remember that the Belanger headers and H/F cats are working with the stock PCM (one test car has almost 4000 trouble free miles.) Although no one has had a chance to dyno a car yet because of the weather where they all went the car feels significantly stronger so you can expect the normal 40+hp gain from the headers alone.

 

[VENOM V]

I think the new limited edition cars have been really nice. I really like the TA. 640 HP is plenty if it is putting the power down efficiently. Look at the 911 (530-540hp). It puts down some of the best1/4 mile times and great trap speeds. 640hp is enough if they had a much better traction control system where the launch control works effectively. Right now, it basically doesnt really work. look at mcclarens launch control, 1.7-1.6 60' times from a "road race" car. Losing weight would also be a good thing. SRt needs to spend more time on getting the power down more efficiently and getting the technology into the car to make it better. I know it had little technology before but in the day and age we are in, that is the difference between HP wars and techno wars. Almost all of the cars that are faster than the viper have less HP and more technology. Very few have more HP. The drive train is where it's at. Transmission, rear ends, and technology that really works.

Competitors- corvette, mcclaren, Porsche, Ferrari 458, gallardo, r8, huracan, etc. all with less HP and more technology.

Go SRT!

Good perspective. And the McClaren is able to do it with rear wheel drive. Technology is where I would like to see the development dollars go, specifically in suspension, traction, active aero, weight reduction and carbon ceramic brakes.

I should rephrase my previous post. Sure a small HP bump would be nice but I put that lower in priority than all the other items. It already has enough smooth, linear torque but to satisfy the HP junkies a mild bump would be nice.

Dingdong- Regarding tweaking the cam, try to pass emissions with increased duration. Don't you think they would have done that if it were feasible? Ask Dick Winkles, I know what his answer would be. The engine needs to keep the longevity that it's famous for, as well.

 

[ViperSmith]

utahviper hits the nail on the head.

The Mac is amazing because they are able to transfer the power to the road so well.

Sure, more power is aways cool, but what good is it if you can't leverage it.

 

[Bobpantax]

2014 Base Viper price: $102, 485.00
2014 Base McClaren coupe price: $258,900.00

Do any of you think the difference is worth $156,415.00?

I don't. The McClaren performs well. No question. But you pay through the nose for it. And, at least from my point of view, the Viper TA is a much better looking car with a more comfortable interior which is much easier to get in and out of. Also, unless I am misinformed, the McClaren is not available with a stick manual transmission which so many of us like..

 

[VENOM V]

2014 Base Viper price: $102, 485.00
2014 Base McClaren coupe price: $258,900.00

Do any of you think the difference is worth $156,415.00?

I don't. The McClaren performs well. No question. But you pay through the nose for it. And, at least from my point of view, the Viper TA is a much better looking car with a more comfortable interior which is much easier to get in and out of. Also, unless I am misinformed, the McClaren is not available with a stick manual transmission which so many of us like..

I agree with this too. Whatever they do to the Viper, they need to keep the winning formula of pricing it within reason. So the technology needs to be reasonable in price, some technologies won't fit the Viper cost model.

 

[ViperSmith]

I thought the Mac was a breeze to get in and out of, the Viper isn't all that easy.

If you've got the coin for a McLaren, it really isn't a discussion of price. It is like saying the C7 is a better buy than the Viper because it is cheaper.

 

[Bobpantax]

You must be a gymnast. The wide lip on the McClaren from the CF tub is a PITA. If someone has any back issues, forget about it.

I thought the Mac was a breeze to get in and out of, the Viper isn't all that easy.

If you've got the coin for a McLaren, it really isn't a discussion of price. It is like saying the C7 is a better buy than the Viper because it is cheaper.

 

[Paul Hawker]

Another way to look at this is should Viper go all techno to appease the people that are impressed by electronically controlled performance, or stick to being a drivers car that offers a fantastic driving experience?

In other words would you prefer to drive a car that puts down great numbers independent of driver input. Turn over the management of power to the computer.

I kinda love the way my Viper response to my driving inputs. Not all that sure I would be as happy, turning it over to the computer to determine how it drives.

MOPAR stresses Direct Connection for their performance. Not sure it is the same if it goes Driver > Computer >Car.

 

[vancouver-gts]

Call me naive but I think that Ralph meant what he said. At 640 HP, the Viper, unless I am missing something, is the highest naturally aspirated HP road racer on the street. Don't the other high HP cars all have superchargers or turbos?

The Ferrari 599 GTO has 661 BHP. The 599 GTB has 612 BHP, so it's a NO.

The non street legal 599XX EVO has 740 BHP.

 

[vancouver-gts]

Also, unless I am misinformed, the McClaren is not available with a stick manual transmission which so many of us like..

Yes, you're right, it is not offered with a manual! Friend of mine went to Toronto to test drive one and was impressed with the car but didn't buy one because it's an auto only.
He's 6'1 and find it OK getting in and out but he's used to cramped cars since owning a Noble M400,lol.

 

[Austin]

Anyone else notice that the Stryker Green Viper behind Ralph is either a T/A or an SRT with the aero package? I thought this color was only going to be offered with the special package that includes that huge ugly wing? Sorry, that package name escapes me at the moment.

You must be registered for see images

 

[Bobpantax]

I do not think either car is made for 2014. I could not find a price for the GTO but the GTB started at $426,843.00 back in 2010 and it had 28HP less than the Viper and both cars had less torque than the Viper.

The Ferrari 599 GTO has 661 BHP. The 599 GTB has 612 BHP, so it's a NO.

The non street legal 599XX EVO has 740 BHP.

 

[ViperSmith]

The wing is a MOPAR prototype part - it was in the press release.

 

[Bobpantax]

I did not find it to be cramped. I did find the seat to be a bit hard and, at least for my lower back, the twisting needed to get in and particularly to get out was the worst I have ever experienced outside a Lotus. The frame is a CF tub. Its height and width next to the driver and the passenger are not friendly to anyone with back issues. It will be interesting to see or read about a heads up road race between the new TA and the McClaren coupe to see if it is as capable on a road course as it is on the drag strip. Does anyone know whether the production version has broken the rcord set at any road course tracks? For that matter, has anyone seen anyone run one at a track day yet? If so, how did it do? Did it heat soak? What kind of endurance did it have?

Yes, you're right, it is not offered with a manual! Friend of mine went to Toronto to test drive one and was impressed with the car but didn't buy one because it's an auto only.
He's 6'1 and find it OK getting in and out but he's used to cramped cars since owning a Noble M400,lol.

 

[Austin]

The wing is a MOPAR prototype part - it was in the press release.

Ah, gotcha. Did not know this. Thanks.