Rear lower control arm has a gash in it, does it need to be replaced?

[Morketh]

Have a question about 3 areas around the wheels.

Here is a pic of the rear lower control arm. You can see there is a gash in it, I assume from a curb or something, no idea.
Do you think that it needs to be replaced? I inspected it real good and I don't see any cracks or anything other than that gash.

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These pics are of the cotter pin that is helping hold the rotor on. The first 2 look fine to me. The 2nd two look like maybe that pin needs to be replaced? Looks kinna jacked up. My dad says it's fine but what do you guys think?

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These pics are of the bushing by the rotor, I thought the rubber boot looked like it was laying in a jacked up way, but all of the wheels had the boots looking like that, that is normal?

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[NMviperguy]

The gash doesn't look deep enough to me to be a problem, how's the alignment? That's what I would have checked. As long as the cotter pin is able to still hold you are fine, if it is broken than replace it. If not sure replace it just to make sure. You can buy a whole set of cotter pins from any auto parts store in many sizes for real cheap. Rubber bushings fatigue and dry out over time, and could let dirt in and around the joint. I've replaced most of the bushings on my camaro with polyurethane. Much stronger than rubber and usually give you a grease ****** to keep them filled with fresh grease. I would assume they make them for our vipers too. Haven't checked into suspension for them yet though.

 

[bluesrt]

Dam. I would call don scharf n get a good used one

 

[Allan]

The defect on the lower arm may have been there from when new. Or it happened while the car was being worked on at some point.
Because that part of the arm is inside the wheel and nothing can hit it while driving. No way it hit something on the road.
I'd let it go.

The cotter pin doesn't hold the rotor. It is a safety retainer to keep the spindle nut from ever backing off.
What you have in the pic is totally fine. There is never any 'load' on the cotter key.

The outer tie rod end boots look a little distressed, but not a problem at this point if the mechanical part of the ends are not loose.

 

[Morketh]

Thanks guys! Allan you seem to have a lot of knowledge lol, you are always helping me! Thanks!

I am going to get this toe link support installed as I hear the rear knuckle is a weakpoint so I figure I could change those bushings out at the same time for that outer tie rod.
I found the outer tie rod itself for around $70 on one of these viper parts websites so I would think the bushings are just as cheap.

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[MoparMap]

I'd agree there's no problem with the pin, just looks like that one has probably been out at some point and reinstalled. As mentioned, if it bothers you they are real cheap to replace. The boot doesn't look too bad. The main reason it looks funny is probably because you have the car jacked up and the weight off that corner of the car, so the suspension is going to sag and flex the boot one way. It does look a little dry, but not terrible. I'd say it's moderately easy to replace, assuming you can get the link off the knuckle, which can sometimes be a pain.

 

[Morketh]

Yea I got the service manual so I will be following it step by step hehe, I am by no means a master mechanic Thanks!

 

[bluesrt]

Your smokin crack if you think that control arm came new like that

 

[Allan]

Your smokin crack if you think that control arm came new like that

You'd be surprised what comes down the assembly line sometimes..........
I know that *****, but it is a reality

I pull wrenches on vehicles for a living. Have been in the automotive service industry for over 30 years now. Independent shop owner for the last 19 years. ASE certified master auto tech, heavy truck tech, L-1 advanced engine performance, engine machinist, part specialist, and service consultant.
Not a poser, newbie, or an idiot, and I don't smoke crack.

Like I posted before, that could have happened while the car was being worked on (by somebody with a big hammer).
But there's no way that happened on the road. It's inside the wheel.

 

[Allan]

Thanks guys! Allan you seem to have a lot of knowledge lol, you are always helping me! Thanks!

I am going to get this toe link support installed as I hear the rear knuckle is a weakpoint so I figure I could change those bushings out at the same time for that outer tie rod.
I found the outer tie rod itself for around $70 on one of these viper parts websites so I would think the bushings are just as cheap.

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No problem on the advice/help. That's what the forums are for.
I do also recommend the toe link supports. I have those on my car as well.

 

[Morketh]

Definitely getting them supports!!! I will do any modification that provides more safety, not really looking for more power from the car.
Just sent my wheels in to get reconditioned and 2 of them were center bent so I have to purchase 1 front and 1 rear wheel. Once that is done I am taking the car to a Viper technician to have the following done:

• outer tie rod bushings replaced on rear
• rear toe link supports installed
• smart glass is not functioning properly so need that fixed
• all 4 new tires
• make sure this engine noise I hear is regular (never heard a viper so I am not sure). From what I understand it is normal to hear a sort of clicking sound that kind of sounds like valve lash which is why i plan to use that 15w50 oil I believe you are the one who told me that
• get anything which requires lubrication lubricated
• just have an overall look at the car to make sure there is nothing abnormal that I am missing

After that I will finally be able to drive it without being nervous so I am pretty excited!

 

[Allan]

Good luck with all the repairs and preparations for driving the car.

Once it's ready...................
Be careful and never underestimate it. Find and read the thread for new Viper owners on how to not total the car or get killed in it.

If someone revs on you at the stop light, don't give it a second thought. You have nothing to prove and neither does the car.
It's a Viper, so really........ you've already won.

Cruising around in a Viper is a life changing experience. No other car seems to invoke the feelings the Viper does.
You'll see what I mean, and then you won't be able to explain it either.

Have fun and be safe.

 

[Morketh]

Good luck with all the repairs and preparations for driving the car.

Once it's ready...................
Be careful and never underestimate it. Find and read the thread for new Viper owners on how to not total the car or get killed in it.

If someone revs on you at the stop light, don't give it a second thought. You have nothing to prove and neither does the car.
It's a Viper, so really........ you've already won.

Cruising around in a Viper is a life changing experience. No other car seems to invoke the feelings the Viper does.
You'll see what I mean, and then you won't be able to explain it either.

Have fun and be safe.

Oh for sure!! I spent a lot of time reading about wrecks in vipers and the reasons they wrecked so I don't plan to do anything crazy at all!
I'll search for that thread though, not sure if I've already read it or not. Thanks for all your help!

 

[Allan]

It's a sticky in the 'General Viper Forums' section.

How to keep new Viper owners safe.


Read all of it.

 

[bluesrt]

I would definatly ditch that damaged control arm. For a car that pulls big g loads and capable of high speeds. No way that would be on my car.period.

 

[Morketh]

Do the Isolator bushings where the rear shock attaches to the lower control arm need to be replaced?

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How about the lower control arm isolator bushings?
Believe I found the isolator bushings for lower control arm HERE for $65 but how many do I need to buy for 1 control arm? (there is technically 4 of these bushings per control arm (2 on each arm) but how many does this come with?) for $65 I would hope it comes with enough bushings for 1 control arm so if I do have to replace for both rear wheels it will cost $130

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And finally, does the outer tie rod need to be replaced with a new one found on VPA HERE or just that rubber boot? I am unable to find the rubber boot anywhere, just the outer tie rod itself anyone know where to find that? When I look in the service manual it doesnt say anything about a bushing or boot when removing/installing the outer tie rod.

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Be nice if there was a set you could buy for ALL bushings for that entire area because I think I may need to replace them all

 

[Allan]

Man those bushings are a little ugly..............
It would be a good idea to replace that stuff. Going to need to do it at some point anyway, if you have the means to do it now,... do it now.

Tie rod ends just need to be replaced. Stop trying to mess with looking for just the boots.

I gotta ask, how many miles are on this car? And is it from the east coast, west coast, or great lakes area?

My car has been driven hard all it's life. Dedicated track duty the last 36,000 miles (including commute miles to the track).
My suspension components do not have that much of an aged look to them. I live in a mild climate area though, and the car is always garaged.

 

[Morketh]

It has 12,300 miles on it.
It was from Arizona originally then it moved to Indiana since last December and now I have it in Texas since the beginning of April.

Well I just got an estimate from dealership to do below so I guess I will just ask them to replace all the bushings while they are at it since they are taking the rear knuckles apart to put the supports on and the outer tie rod replacement

rear knuckle supports installed $250
coolant flush 219
brake fluid flush 229
power steering flush 169
possible alignment 259.95
clutch fluid flushed 229
oil change 139.95
REAR DIFFERENTIAL FLUID flush 289
transmission fluid flush 229

Total is somewhere around $1800 for everything

 

[Morketh]

Here's a dumb question... Do I need to buy 2 sets of these toe link supports or are these only needed for your rear? Every article I have read was referring to the rear knuckles being the weakpoint and I don't remember ever reading anything about the front knuckles needing this toe link support.

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Also, the Outer Tie Rods are the same in the front and the rear correct? They sure look exactly the same to me.

 

[Allan]

Toe link supports are for the rear only.

I have replaced all my outer tie rod ends, but not at the same time. Only as needed from wear.
So I didn't bother with part number tracking or to see if front/rear were the same.

 

[Roy]

It has 12,300 miles on it.
It was from Arizona originally then it moved to Indiana since last December and now I have it in Texas since the beginning of April.

Well I just got an estimate from dealership to do below so I guess I will just ask them to replace all the bushings while they are at it since they are taking the rear knuckles apart to put the supports on and the outer tie rod replacement

rear knuckle supports installed $250
coolant flush 219
brake fluid flush 229
power steering flush 169
possible alignment 259.95
clutch fluid flushed 229
oil change 139.95
REAR DIFFERENTIAL FLUID flush 289
transmission fluid flush 229

Total is somewhere around $1800 for everything

OK, maybe I don't get it right..but what the hell are those prices for some fluidswaps?!Rear diff 289 dollars?! I don't have a clue what dealers normally charge for labor for things like brake- clutch- powersteering- or diff fluid, but over 200 dollars for new brake or clutch fluid sounds really insane to me...there is about 5 dollars worth of fluid in each and it takes about 20 minutes...how on earth does someone explain these prices...
the oil is the most expensive swap and there they charge a normal amount...

As said, no idea what is normal stateside, but I would ask my dealer over here if he was drunk writing this quote...

over here quote would look like: 2 hours labor 150, fluids 200, allignment 65 dollar...all done (apart from the knuckle off course)

 

[Morketh]

Yea I'm not sure, I've never had to have any of those fluids flushed in any of my cars so I am not sure on pricing.

 

[NMviperguy]

The brake fluid and clutch fluid can be changed simply by taking a turkey baster to the reservoirs, sucking out all the fluid and replacing it with as stated a $5 bottle of fresh brake fluid... If you want to get really in depth bleed the brakes starting at the back right caliper, back left, front right, front left while someone holds the brake pedal down for you while you or they do it. Then pumping the brake pedal in between. This is what they will be doing in some form. Clutch fluid is the same, usually has the same size drain nut on it as well. Biggest part of the labor is getting the wheels off. These rates are pretty much paying for convenience. It's a simple job any 2 people can do... It's a question of if you want to or not... But then again all the fluid changing could be easily accomplished diy

 

[Roy]

I'm not sure neither, but only about whats normal in the states, I do know that flushing your brakes and clutch doesn't take very long and the fluid isn't expensive ánd it only needs a quarter liter or such. Over here those prices would be called theft

 

[Morketh]

So maybe I will do like you said with clutch/brake and even power steering can probably be done with turkey baster, I did that on my BMW. Just pull it out with a turkey baster, refill it with new, run it for a while and do it again to get most of the old out.

What about coolant though, shouldn't that be properly flushed?

 

[NMviperguy]

No... Just pull the bottom hose really... There is usually a drain on the bottom of the radiator but those seem to usually brake easy... Pull the bottom hose, it's messy but will drain most fluid out... If you'd like to drain it all turn the car and run it till the thermostat opens, that will get the remaining fluid In the engine. It's down and dirty but will get the job done.

 

[NMviperguy]

Manual transmission fluid change is pretty easy as well. Again I haven't done it on a viper but have done it on my 2002 z/28 which has the same transmission. There is a drain plug, let the fluid drain out, replace and feel with synthetic ATF... I used mobile one... Change at every 50k miles or so and the transmission will last forever.... Just don't burn out the Synchro's with bad shifting!

 

[Roy]

transmission fluid on the gen 3 viper is dead easy, get under there, lose the bottom plate, pull the drain plug and refill plug (the upper one where you refill), let it seep out, refill or if you want flush a little with 1/2 a liter or so, than refill until the correct level (use search button, but I believe it is until it comes seeping out) and your done...same thing for the diff fluid EXCEPT YOUR NEED ADDITIONAL FRICTION MODIFIER, do not forget this part.
Diff as well as transmission fluid is easiest with "warm" fluids, else diff oil will be pretty thick. Make sure you have an extension for your diff fluid bottle or put the bottel with the nozzle up there before you cut it off...this stuff is smelly as hell.

brake and clutch is easiest with a drain tool on the bleeds screw, but probably will be possible as well with the old pump and hold 2 man trick. Make sure not to get the fill bottle empty, than you'll have air in your system, that's not good. i let my mechanic do this as this is the same as on any car and they do it quick and cheap (again 5-10 buck worth of fluid and half an hour labor)
coolant is easy on this model, burping is not necessary as far as I know (but use search to be sure)
engine oil is the easiest ever, drain plug, oil filter, drain, replace oil filter with some oil already in it and replace drain plug...refill until correct level, better on the high than on the lower part of the dipstick.

I don't know about power steering fluid, not sure if it is needed at all...

 

[Morketh]

Alright I will definitely look into doing most of this myself. I didn't think it was too hard but I was wanting everything to be done for the first time with a Viper tech but I guess this stuff is not very hard and they are overcharging.

 

[Wiretech]

I just did all my fluids last week, it took the two of us around 5 hours including lubing the suspension,It costed under 300 dollars in parts and picked up a mity-vac to vacuum out the clutch,brakes and power steering.