Reccommendation for Big Brake Kit

Jaymz

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What is the preferred Big Brake Kit for a 98 Viper GTS? I am looking for nice stopping power for track use and street use. Is the 14" Brembo kit the one to get? What kind of prices am I looking at? How much are replacement pads? Do they offer street pads as well? I would hate to drive around on some race pads. I have a set up 18" CCW wheels on order so size shouldn't be a problem. Does everyone use a brake proportioning valve? Does it come with the kit? If not what did you get?

What kind of SS Brakelines is everyone using?

Thanks
James
98 Red GTS
 

Brad Manhattan Beach

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James:

First of all, I must clearly state that I looked for big brake solutions for 2 years before deciding to go with Stop Tech. I can vouch for everything that Dan says about the Stop tech brake kit. I am running them on my GTS and I love them. I get:
- (dramatically)better stopping distances
- better modulation and feel.
- No proportioning valve required.
- Australian Bendix pad is good for street and track days.
- the ability to lock up my brakes above 65 mph (which doesn't happen on stock brakes).

Dan Cragin was intimately involved with the development and testing of this brake system. It is not an adaptation of someone else's brake for a Viper. Stop Tech develops the 2 piece floating hat rotors, calipers and SS brake lines. This is the best price performance brake solution that you will find on the market (with quantifiable results and no downside).

Feel free to email me if I can answer any other questions.
 
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What about the Baer brake system?
Most people I seem to speak with recommend the Baer over the Brembo; not too many have heard of Stop Tech. Also there are the kits from Dilusi, and the Porsche Turbo Big Red kits that adapt to the Viper.
Anyone have success with something other than the Stop Tech?
 

Frank Parise

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Desert Venom uses the Porsche Big Red system which comes with modified caliper mounting hardware and hats to fit the Viper. No mods are necessary to the pedal assembly or the brake master cylinder. We use SS lines and the Porsche air deflectors. We use Pagid race pads. These cars are dedicated to strictly track use. The set installed on front and rear is about $6,000.
I change front rotors ($225 each) once every 15-20 track weekends. The rear rotors last 30-40 track weekends and are the same price. The front Pagid pads are changed once every 5 or 6 track weekends and the rears are changed about half as much. Front pads are about $200 per set and rears are about $170.
My teammate had the complete $12,000 BAER system and recently sold it to put the Porsche system on his car. The Rotors for the BAER system were something like $800-$1,000 each and didn't last as long! The BAER system also produced inconsistent pedal pressure requirements over the term of a 30-minute sprint race. Phil loves the Porsche system. There are 5 or 6 wheel to wheel race Vipers using this system.
 

TAPROOT

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I have a Baer kit on one of my cars and I can vouch for the Expensive rotor part.I actually had a problem with one set of rotors being somewhat warped after a unexpected stop (while in seasoning) when rotors were new .I would go with a company that will pre season them for you.I do that with Baer now after the Expensive mistake.Baer systems are pretty good. Viper systems go for around $3,400 .I would change fluid to SRF Castrol.The caliper will melt before the fluid reaches its boiling point!Good stuff!Brembo is a very good brake also.Alcon - Baer do the job for me !
Good luck!
 

Brad Manhattan Beach

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Jay:

Nice right up on your brake changes. What kind of stopping distance improvements did you get out of them? I looked at the Wilwood/Dilusi setup and was concerned about the torsional rigidity of the caliper. I also researched Baer, Brembo and Porsche big brake packages. I heard from several sources that they all recommended proportioning valves to off set the sensitivity and brake bias. I was also never able to get real performance numbers from any of them. It seems that the guys doing the Porsche, Baer and Brembo upgrades were on cars mostly dedicated to the track.

I decided to go with the Stop Tech solution for a few reasons like:
- They designed the entire brake system and did not use some manufacturers components that were adapted to Vipers.
- The guys at Stop Tech are brake and suspension design engineers, who have spent most of their time developing brakes for racing applications.
- They designed the brakes to do the following things:
- Work with the Vipers stock master cylinder (with no need for modifications to the proportioning valve or master cylinder)
- Works with stock 17 Viper wheels
- Installs on stock mounts
- Priced economically
- And first and foremost, perform

All of the solutions that I mentioned, did not come forward with actual performance numbers. because of this, I delayed making a decision until I could find a vendor that disclosed solid performance numbers. There were very few references that would come forward to dicuss any downsides to their upgrades (like overly sensitive pedal and lock up or rear brake lock up).

Why Stop Tech? Probably one of the main reasons that I went with them was because they were working closely with people like Dan Cragin (of Claude Short Dodge) and John Purner to develop a system that could be used on the street, as well as the track. Although this might not be the best system for a racing application, it is certainly the most competitive brake systems available for the money. Stop Tech's front brake kit is yielding better stopping numbers than those who are proposing 4 brake solutions. Stop Techs provide definitive performance numbers between Viper's stock brakes and theirs with incredible numbers (i.e. 60 to 0 numbers of 113 feet versus stock at 140s to 155 feet).

Finally the feel... the Stop Techs provide extremely good pedal modulation, excellant brake bias and cooling that helps you endure on track days without boiling your fluid and extend your pad life. The Bendix Ultimate pads provide great feel without the traditional downsides to racing pads (especially with regards to warm up and cool weather performance). Brake dust is also reduced with them. For the first time ever, I can actually lock my brakes up above 65 mph (which doesn't happen with stock brakes).

The bottom line is that this package is unbeatable for the price of $2,300 (which includes 4 piston calipers, 2 piece floating hat cross-drilled rotors and stainless steel brake lines that are all designed by Stop Tech). Talk to Dan Cragin who was intimately involved with their development and testing (I would suspectthat Dan has installed more brake upgrade kits than any other Viper Tech in the country). Stop Tech's work on stock Vipers with stock sized wheels, and provide some of the best performance numbers (aside from being the most competitvely priced solution there is). It is definitely worth the call to Dan Cragin at Claude Short, or Bob Lee at Stop Tech.

I do not benefit by endorsing Stop Tech. I am just a very happy customer. Make sure to check references with all of the vendors that you consider. Good luck with your search. Please feel free to contact me if I can be of further assistance.
 

Brad Manhattan Beach

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James:

Based on Paolo's comments, I think that he is addressing a full racing application with the Brembo Monoblock brakes. They use these same brakes on the Oreca Le Mans cars. The Stop Tech is not designed for or targeted at this marketplace. It is targeted on people that use their Vipers on the street, with occasional track days. The price point and the actual performance reflects that.

If you are going to spend big money on racing brakes, it makes most of the options presented to you a moot point. There are some very high priced brake solutions for the street, but it's hard to beat the experience and input of the engineers at Stop Tech and Dan Cragin (of Claude Short Dodge).

Just an FYI, there are also pretty high priced ABS systems made by ViperSpeed (Ben Madley) and Silver State Racing (Jason Tarnutzer). They need your car in their shops for about 2 weeks to machine the fittings to accomodate the new system (these are NOT kits). The committment to this is pretty serious, and it would be difficult and expensive to return your car to stock (if you decide to sell the car later on).

Be cautious of different vendors who are out there that are adapting someone else's brakes technology to Vipers. They are most likely NOT engineers, and do not know the intracacies of the brakes design or it's limitations. Stop Tech does design ALL of it's components that go on all of their brakes. From the patented rotor designs, to the stainless steel lines and calipers. Don't be fooled that just because someone has a 6 piston caliper, that it can stop you better or be controllable under stress. Pistons can be designed with a large variety of combinations to achieve a purpose. The guys at Stop Tech have a long hisory of race proven brake engineering and design.

Whatever direction that you decide to go in, do your homework very carefully. This is not a bolt on part like a header, that is not without serious consequences. Don't take this decision lightly, because it could been the difference between serious injury or worse. You want to know ALL od the pluses and minuses with each system that you are considering. You need to talk to references that use the brakes for the same applications that you do, and have a similar skill level as you.

Understand that there are guys like Paolo, are serious committed racers, and understand their cars at a much higher level than the rest of us. They also have driving skills that will get them out of situations that most of us will never see. Decide where your priorities are with respect to:
- Safety (for street and track) and real stopping numbers?
- Controllability,sensitivity (pedal modulation) and brake bias?
- How well does the brake system interface with the Viper's stock master cylinder and wheels?
- How well does the system perform for your application?
- Replacement costs and can my Viper Tech service and install it?

Even with a bottomless wallet, you could be making a decision that you might regret. Please do your homework and ask vendors to provide hard facts and performance numbers (as well as how they got the numbers). I have heard of nightmares with certain brakes that only came out on the race track (when the driver found out about rear bias as he followed his rear end down the track). Be wary of vendors that recommend proportioning valves or modifications of the stock master cylinder (as in pulling O-rings).

Finally, use resources like Dan Cragin who have a tremendous amount of experience installing after market brakes. It's easy to get blinded by the sales talk that everyone throws around.

Good luck in your search. Email me if I can be of any further help.
 

GTS Dean

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jaymz:
What is the preferred Big Brake Kit for a 98 Viper GTS? What kind of SS Brakelines is everyone using?

Thanks
James
98 Red GTS

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James,

This board is a tremendous technical resource for any and all-things Viper. I think Marv Spatz has a quote in his signature line that says "A Search Key is a terrible thing to waste." Please, consider well all you read in this thread, but don't overlook the "history files."
 

Joel

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Brad, I think I may at some time this year be interested in Dan's stoptech setup, as it would sound ideal for street and occasional track use. Sounds like the bias problem has been well sorted due to those stopping distances, but whats it like on a wet surface, is the bias still acceptable in those conditions ( which we get a lot of in Europe !) I'm tired of trying to make a silk purse out of the sows ear which the standard system is.
 

K Adelberg

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As most of you know I have the Stop Tech four wheel brake system which I choose after a horrific experience with another tuner. I continue to be more then satisfied with the system. Two weeks ago I entered into another wheel to wheel race. Not only did the system performed perfectly, but one of my competitors was driving a fully prepared Porsche 944 turbo, gutted and the whole nine yards and was unable to capitalize under braking even though his car weighed at least 1,000 lbs. less than mine. Another victory for Stoptech!
 

jcaspar1

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Can the Stop Tech two wheel package be upgraded to the four wheel set at a later time simply by adding the rear calipers?
 

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