Roe vs. Paxton/Vortech superchargers. Which is better?

[Gerald]

Just look at what RPM range you drive your Viper at.

If you drive it at 5000+ RPM all the time go with the Paxton.

If you drive it 1500-4000 RPM almost all of the time go with the Roe.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SUN RA KAT]

We all know Gerald is only below 5000 RPM when he has it parked. And only then.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Sun Ra Kat how often are you at 1500 rpm at the drag strip. And no fair counting your staging, no-load, rpm.

 

[1TONY1]

fast? (mr. T )

Were your dyno numbers with the water injection or without ?

 

[carguy07]

Take 2 equal cars, one with a Paxton intercooled pulleyed for 10lbs and a non intercooled Roe 10lbs also. Drive along in 3rd at 1500rpm no downshift, just roll on and see which car feels stock and which car lurches forward and kicks ass. That is what makes the Roe such a good "street" blower. It's all about torque down low. Will the Paxton ever catch the Roe in this situation?? It's almost like a *** car vs a V8. The *** car if run in it's power band can stay with the V8. That should start some ****. I actually love the Paxton cars and kick it around everyday, but for "street" driving the Roe should be a bigger bang. Flame away.

 

[RedGTS]

does Procharger make a kit for the vipers??????????

No.

Were your dyno numbers with the water injection or without ?

Tony, I think he said in an earlier post they were without, but they were using 100 octane. Still awfully high numbers, and I have serious doubt about the 8 psi part (not accusing anyone of anything but I wonder how the boost was measured).

 

[SUN RA KAT]

Sun Ra Kat how often are you at 1500 rpm at the drag strip. And no fair counting your staging, no-load, rpm.

First of all, my Viper is a street car that rarely goes to the dragstrip. I run on the strip on stock Michelin Pilots inflated to the psi I drove it there on the street (29 psi). Obviously, that combination won't get me the best times, but at my level of inexperience I find it quite challenging. That said, I launch at around 1500 RPMs - no bog and the wheelspin isn't too bad.

On the street I am at 1500-2500 RPMs around 97.5% of the clock time I am moving on the road. I am at more than 2500 RPMs to 5700 RPMs about 2.5% of the clock time while moving on the road. The Roe S/C with my other mods gives me a very usable 6th gear (especially from 80-140 MPH) and the lower gears are very exciting (only on private closed course roads, of course). My Roe S/C is the stock 5 pounds boost, BTW.

 

[STUGOTS]

STUGOTS, do you even know how a supercharger works?

NOPE no idea however I think its only fair to compare the 2 with equal psi and both either intercooled or non intercooled now the paxton may very well win but is it really fair to compare a 5 - 8 psi non intercooled blower to a 14- 16 psi intercooled blower **** NO.

Like I said the paxton may win and thats fine but at the very least give them equel psi and both either intercooled or both non intercooled then see what makes more power.

Besides like it was said earlier in this thread as far as im concerned whats important to me (on the street) is when someone pulls up beside you can you take em from a roll and with the Roe the answer to that is yes.

 

[GR8_ASP]

It may not be fair to compare them at different boosts. But what if one type is more capable of higher boost, because the boost rise through the rpms allow a higher maximum.

That is based on displacement superchargers like roots, twin screw, etc, make maximum boost at low engine speeds where they are more prone to detonate. And if they are set for too much boost they can be fighting a losing battle in retarding spark to prevent detonation. Without electronic boost control that is a condition that can lmit the max boost condition.

On the other hand, centrifugal type superchargers do not make constant boost as the turbine efficiency is very turbine and airflow speed dependent. If a turbine was designed just for a Viper with a given airflow and boost, then the turbine efficiency could be maximized to maximize the area under the torque curve in the engine speed range of greatest interest (probably near the top end). Unfortunately, no one will design one specifically for a specific application, and therefor it starts with a compromise.

But back to the conditions. Unequal boost is apples and apples as long as each is pushing the envelope the same amount. i.e. max capability on pump gas, stock bottom end, etc, regardless of intercoolers and the like.

 

[STUGOTS]

Thats true if the Roe were reaching max capability on pump gas which arocding to Sean it is not.

Its not that the intercooler gives more power its the fact that the Roe needs cooler temps to make more boost safely so with that being said im sure you can set a Roe with 16 psi right now but would it be safe with those temps NO and thats the reason for the intercooler.

 

[FE 065]

FWIW, HERE'S an article about what increasing psi (and heat) with smaller pulleys can do to a blower...

 

[fast?]

hi tony. the hp #'s were made on 100 octane fuel no water/methanol on a hot 105 degree day (in the shop it was 95 degrees).

red gts, i am using a 2.5 inch pulley which is giving me 8lbs of boost(because of my free flowing heads 296cfm @600lift) measured off my boost gauge. we are measuring boost from back pressure not pulley size, right? i doubt the paxton guys running high hp #'s are telling boost back pressure not pulley size.

i have seen 9lbs of boost when on the water/**** but i have not dynoed the car with the injection system on yet.

 

[1TONY1]

Stu, I'm not so sure about a roe running 16psi on a Viper engine Maybe you should talk to Sean a little.


Gerald, What are you dyno numbers ?

 

[Simms]

Isn't there a limit to the Autorotor compressor (Roe setup) that prevents it from pushing so much air? I thought you could only go to a certain pulley size.

 

[Gerald]

Tony, my dyno numbers allowed a 1st time drag racer at Bradenton on street tires to hit ALMOST 140mph with a wing and full stereo gear. How'd'ya like that one? hhahaha
Oh,forgot, this system is about 4 years old

Cya'!
G

 

[1TONY1]

Tony, my dyno numbers allowed a 1st time drag racer at Bradenton on street tires to hit ALMOST 140mph with a wing and full stereo gear. How'd'ya like that one? hhahaha
Oh,forgot, this system is about 4 years old

Cya'!
G

So are you embarrassed of your numbers I know there good, we can only blame the driver for not having better times.

p.s. Were you on Kumhos or Michelins ? My et streets are d.o.t. but I wouldn't call them street tires. Kumhos would be classed with drag radials at any race that has tire rules.

 

[Gerald]

I was on Kuhmo's. I think I can take you if you don't spray a "small" shot.... LOL!

That's funny about the tire remark. I drive with them everyday. They're 100% street tires. Just a little stickier. I'll take ya'!

I'll tell you what my dyno numbers are ( I think it was 720rwhp at 8 lbs) if you tell me really how much juice your spraying... I think it's a little over a just a 25 or 50 shot to use as an intercooler. this is fun!

 

[1TONY1]

I was on Kuhmo's. I think I can take you if you don't spray a "small" shot.... LOL!

That's funny about the tire remark. I drive with them everyday. They're 100% street tires. Just a little stickier. I'll take ya'!

I'll tell you what my dyno numbers are ( I think it was 720rwhp at 8 lbs) if you tell me really how much juice your spraying... I think it's a little over a just a 25 or 50 shot to use as an intercooler. this is fun!

You take your intercooler off and run 8 psi and I won't run the nauuuus and it's on !!! But the way I usually look at it...run whatever you want too. I won't complain if somebody has a TT or a 30K RSI stroker/sc...it's my choice to run lower boost and spray on top. I can run with the big boys at the track and I can kick their ass at the autocross.

Another p.s. I ran a 6.63 et and 105 mph in the 1/8 the other day (NO NITROUS). Remember, stock engine. It was in worse air the Bradenton....curious what your 1/8 mile numbers were ?? Close im sure....I did have the street tires on (et streets )


ALSO PS: when I say it's my choice.....it's actually the choice of my po boy wallet

I edited the no nitrous et and mph...what was I thinking....duh.

 

[2MANYTOYS]

I've owned both setups. Both are good systems. But there is something that Sun Ra Kat seems to always say in his posts concerning the Roe. He typically says that the Roe is better for street driven purposes. That the Roe makes most of its power down low where he drives 97% of the time. I don't disagree that the Roe makes it's power down low in the RPM range but I do disagree that the Roe is easier or better for normal street driving. The Paxton makes its power higher up the RPM range. Therefore, when I'm driving around town from a 1000 to 3000 rpm my car drives better than it did with the Roe. It feels closer to stock and it should, it is not pulling very much boost assuming normal driving or simply rowing up through the gears. You wouldn't know that my car has 1000+ rwhp. So I'm not understanding nor agreeing with the myth that the Roe cars are better for street driving. If anything the Roe I had was more difficult to drive on the street especially with an aluminum flywheel installed. If I didn't pay attention to how hard I was mashing the go pedal then I would start pulling a good portion of the Roe boost.
Unfortunately, most people on here that post one way or the other only have one or the other setup and have not driven both. Some don't have either setup. Therefore they are going to have a biased answer. Everyone likes to think that there setup is the best. In reality it is simply an opinion of how one person chooses to make bigger hp and which way he/she thinks is best. Personaly, I like the paxton better not only for the big power it makes but for the ease of driving it on the street.

 

[1TONY1]

1033 rwhp

I could be wrong, but I think somebody has been doing some more tuning ???

p.s. according to ME, I'm not usually wrong Just ask my wife !!!

 

[2MANYTOYS]

lol! No more tuning! That's what it was prior to Shreveport. But she'll be tweaked prior to FL.

 

[SUN RA KAT]

2MANYTOYS, you'll have to let me drive your car so I can compare the two. The only comparision I have so far are a stock viper and my slightly modded Viper before the Roe S/C and my Viper after the Roe S/C.

I still say my Viper is a better street Viper with the Roe S/C, though maybe after I drive yours I'll say your set up is even better.

 

[2MANYTOYS]

2MANYTOYS, you'll have to let me drive your car so I can compare the two. The only comparision I have so far are a stock viper and my slightly modded Viper before the Roe S/C and my Viper after the Roe S/C.

I still say my Viper is a better street Viper with the Roe S/C, though maybe after I drive yours I'll say your set up is even better.

Someone else that could give a good comparison would be RedGTS. He's had both as well.

That's the point of my post. Most people havn't driven or owed both setups. You might be surprised at how well a properly tuned paxton car drives, I know I was.

 

[STUGOTS]

But I still feel that to evenly compare the 2 you should have 2 running the same psi.

 

[1TONY1]

I think Kenny is talking about the power is on tap where his rpm normally is at. I have some miles on a aftermarket Paxton car and where I am used to power...it is not there. My driving habits would need to be changed. Doesn't help that this car has a 3.07 and mine has a 3.55. I will not dispute a custom centrifical car can make more power (by far) than a Roe car. Will the fully built Roe car be way behind in a drag race ?? not as much as the power numbers would indicate.
This thread (I THINK) is really about the off the shelf DIY Roe vs DIY Paxton. Here, in a drag race there is no clear cut winner. The driver could easily make the difference

Now, In Bradenton.....Is Gerald going to race me ?? I will even take a dose on the street.
Is 2manytoys going to race me ?? I will try my best to run the unlimited class, so I am sure I will get to run Kevin.

 

[1TONY1]

But I still feel that to evenly compare the 2 you should have 2 running the same psi.

HELLO STU, A Roe will not run the same boost, can't, won't, nadda. Would you ask someone to lower their nitrous shot...NO...so why would I lower my boost if I had a Paxton.
ANSWER: I wouldn't....I would tell you tough ******* Get some more booost.


Help me out here, I am trying to "intelligently" defend the Roe cars

 

[STUGOTS]

ok in that case whats the max psi a Roe car can do (in your opinion) when it is properly intercooled?

 

[1TONY1]

ok in that case whats the max psi a Roe car can do (in your opinion) when it is properly intercooled?

12 psi IMO, but 10 psi with more timing may be a better combo. It doesn't matter.....because I can't have an intercooler today. It's like....which is faster, a modded gen2 or a gen3 coupe. Don't know....I can't get a 06 coupe yet.

There is a rpm limit OR a maximum EFFECIENT rpm the Roe blower can turn. I forget what I was told (not by Sean) but I don't think a 14 psi pulley was advised.

 

[STUGOTS]

I understand what your sayin its not available yet so no one really knows I got cha.

If 10 is available now and Sean says more will be available with the intercooler and your saying 14 is not advised then it looks like about 12 psi should be the max.

 

[Shelby3]

But I still feel that to evenly compare the 2 you should have 2 running the same psi.

HELLO STU, A Roe will not run the same boost, can't, won't, nadda. Would you ask someone to lower their nitrous shot...NO...so why would I lower my boost if I had a Paxton.
ANSWER: I wouldn't....I would tell you tough ******* Get some more booost.


Help me out here, I am trying to "intelligently" defend the Roe cars

Roe looks better?