Roe vs. Paxton/Vortech superchargers. Which is better?

[VIPER D]

[
:lol:

That's ok Tony, I won't hold it against you that you can't put an intercooler on your car.....and get some manly numbers.... I'll give you the lead. Cmon.. this will only be my 2nd time drag racing.....

Gerald, Why are you quoting someone else and replying to me ???? Did you not read my challange, it included a street roll. Have you never done that ? I think I have seen several videos....so much for that excuse Heres your options: Either race me OR you have to go to Mons with us

hmmm, that might be good money for me. Roll on with you, and you can't run Nitrous? $1,000?

I might fly out to FL just to watch

vd..

 

[99 R/T 10]

[
:lol:

That's ok Tony, I won't hold it against you that you can't put an intercooler on your car.....and get some manly numbers.... I'll give you the lead. Cmon.. this will only be my 2nd time drag racing.....

Gerald, Why are you quoting someone else and replying to me ???? Did you not read my challange, it included a street roll. Have you never done that ? I think I have seen several videos....so much for that excuse Heres your options: Either race me OR you have to go to Mons with us

hmmm, that might be good money for me. Roll on with you, and you can't run Nitrous? $1,000?

 

[VIPER D]

But I still feel that to evenly compare the 2 you should have 2 running the same psi.

HELLO STU, A Roe will not run the same boost, can't, won't, nadda. Would you ask someone to lower their nitrous shot...NO...so why would I lower my boost if I had a Paxton.
ANSWER: I wouldn't....I would tell you tough ******* Get some more booost.


Help me out here, I am trying to "intelligently" defend the Roe cars

Roe looks better?

maybe on a gen 1 or 2 but not on a gen 3 that I have seen.

vd..

Paxton is the only blower for gen 3 and it looks hoooooooooot

just it back tonight from VOS


vd..

 

[Cudaman]

Something for everyone to think about ...... Many of the heavily built cars when they are produced that are laying down the low numbers are being driven by " very experienced drivers" or some what "pros" IE: SW drives Dr. Roofs TT, Jason Heffner test drove Chad William into the 9's and Kevin has driven both of Undergrounds cars. There is nothing wrong with that .... what it does is two things: 1) enables the car to make the fastest times out the box. 2)Lets the current owner get seat time or acquires the learning curve SAFELY.

I personaly feel that the Roe S/C cars have had one true Pro drive one car and that is Tony Armour( All 4 drivers I have mentioned have racing for a VERY long time). Tony has driven his previous Roe setup to a 9.85 in Bradenton last year. When Tony drove his car to the 9.85 I would guess his car had about $ 9,000 to $ 10,000 worth of mods to it. But Tony could give a better figure of the exact amount. ALL of the Roe S/C Vipers are driven by their owners.

Something for everyone to think about when costing of mods to a car, the non creampuff are lots less costly to mod because they already have the correct pistons in the cars.

There are some Roe S/C Vipers out there almost producing the same amount of torque as the heavily moded Paxton/Vortech superchargers. "Torque wins races, horsepower sells cars."

There would be more Roe S/C Vipers in the 9's if we had some more "pros" driving them. But many of the faster Roe are driven by their hard headed owners that are trying to prove something to themselves and drive their cars into the 9's themselves.

Hard Headed Cudaman

 

[VIPER D]

Something for everyone to think about ...... Many of the heavily built cars when they are produced that are laying down the low numbers are being driven by " very experienced drivers" or some what "pros" IE: SW drives Dr. Roofs TT, Jason Heffner test drove Chad William into the 9's and Kevin has driven both of Undergrounds cars. There is nothing wrong with that .... what it does is two things: 1) enables the car to make the fastest times out the box. 2)Lets the current owner get seat time or acquires the learning curve SAFELY.

I personaly feel that the Roe S/C cars have had one true Pro drive one car and that is Tony Armour( All 4 drivers I have mentioned have racing for a VERY long time). Tony has driven his previous Roe setup to a 9.85 in Bradenton last year. When Tony drove his car to the 9.85 I would guess his car had about $ 9,000 to $ 10,000 worth of mods to it. But Tony could give a better figure of the exact amount. ALL of the Roe S/C Vipers are driven by their owners.

Something for everyone to think about when costing of mods to a car, the non creampuff are lots less costly to mod because they already have the correct pistons in the cars.

There are some Roe S/C Vipers out there almost producing the same amount of torque as the heavily moded Paxton/Vortech superchargers. "Torque wins races, horsepower sells cars."

There would be more Roe S/C Vipers in the 9's if we had some more "pros" driving them. But many of the faster Roe are driven by their hard headed owners that are trying to prove something to themselves and drive their cars into the 9's themselves.

Hard Headed Cudaman

maybe the pro's drive paxtons for a reason??? maybe we should follow their lead??

vd..

 

[Cudaman]

maybe the pro's drive paxtons for a reason??? maybe we should follow their lead??

vd..

Approximately 2 years olds ago, SW was lined up to drive my car at Bowling Green when I ran a 10.3 I decided then, I would be the driver of my car, to get it into the 9's and NO ONE else would FIRST. After I drive my into the nines then I will let SW drive it deeper into the 9's. I have been there twice recently, last Thursday with a 10.077 and at the V-10 Nationals at Bowling Green with a 10.078.

My PRIDE is way more important to ME that the glory I would have received approximately 2 years ago.


Cudaman

 

[VIPER D]

I gotta say roe paxton or whatever a 9 or 10 sec driver gets my respect. well done


vd..

 

[MaxedGTS]

How come you don't see most big tq number cars running nines??....the reason is USABLE power. i know alot of Roe owners are GOOD viper people but you have to call it like it is. You CANT turn up the boost on Roe blowers to make equal paxton power. and i call b.s. to anybody that says its because of intercooling. Because some of you Roe guys are using nitros, alcohol, water, racing fuel, sling shots, blah blah blah.... NOw take a paxton blower car and a good fuel system and you will smother the competition with NO b.s.
Jus my .02
Max

 

[Cudaman]

MaxedGTS how much power does your 2000 make and what is your best time? The facts there are numerous DLM cars making enough power to run 9's, but only a couple have. There is also many others Paxton cars capable of it too. There is only a few drivers that are capable of driving a car into the nines.

The facts are: it is EASY to produce big numbers on a dyno. It is easier to talk about or typing a 9, but very few people are capable of driving a stick (6 speed ) car into the nines. Hence talk is cheap and BS is even cheaper.

Cudaman

 

[Shelby3]

MaxedGTS how much power does your 2000 make and what is your best time? The facts there are numerous DLM cars making enough power to run 9's, but only a couple have. There is also many others Paxton cars capable of it too. There is only a few drivers that are capable of driving a car into the nines.

The facts are: it is EASY to produce big numbers on a dyno. It is easier to talk about or typing a 9, but very few people are capable of driving a stick (6 speed ) car into the nines. Hence talk is cheap and BS is even cheaper.

Cudaman

 

[1TONY1]

[


hmmm, that might be good money for me. Roll on with you, and you can't run Nitrous? $1,000?

I will give you a few days to reconsider........maybe you will want me to take the headers and k&n filters off too

 

[RedGTS]

Cuda, you make some good points, but when comparing these setups head to head w/o worrying about a lot of other factors, I keep coming back to the fact that no Roe car has sniffed 9's without nitrous (that I am aware of), while several Paxton cars have run 9's on boost alone. That may change once the intercooler for the Roe comes out, but we'll have to wait and see. I wonder what one of these 15 psi Paxton setups would do with a 75-100 shot of NOS, and I also wonder whether a Roe car could make 15 psi with some sort of intercooler.

 

[1TONY1]

Cuda, you make some good points, but when comparing these setups head to head w/o worrying about a lot of other factors, I keep coming back to the fact that no Roe car has sniffed 9's without nitrous (that I am aware of), while several Paxton cars have run 9's on boost alone. That may change once the intercooler for the Roe comes out, but we'll have to wait and see. I wonder what one of these 15 psi Paxton setups would do with a 75-100 shot of NOS, and I also wonder whether a Roe car could make 15 psi with some sort of intercooler.

Who has run a 9 second pass with the base Paxton kit ? Who has even ran a sub 10.50 pass with the base paxton kit ? Whos got the balls to put nitrous on top of 15 psi ?

Edit: In fact, I think that is a loaded (attorney )question. How many of ANY cars done by anybody or tuner with ANY mods have run in the nines ? It's still a fairly short list.

 

[RedGTS]

Who has run a 9 second pass with the base Paxton kit ? Who has even ran a sub 10.50 pass with the base paxton kit ? Whos got the balls to put nitrous on top of 15 psi ?

Simmer down there my budget minded buddy before I have to serve a subpoena duces tecum or something on you! I wasn't talking about comparing base kits, which is why I said "without worrying about a lot of other factors"--meaning, forget about dollars invested, boost level, heads, cam, etc. Obviously I singled NOS out as most people consider it another "power adder," and it does usually make a more significant difference on almost any combo than other mods. You're absolutely right that it is still a relatively short list, but the list of Roe blown cars in the 9's isn't really even a list--it's just you! And the list of boost only Roe blown cars in the 9's is empty, despite the fact that several cars with heads/cam/higher boost/water **** etc. have been racing regularly. Some of the Paxton cars have gone 9.7's (or is it 9.6's?) Anyway, I was talking about highly modded cars using those compressors, not base kits--I've said before (I think in this thread in fact) that I think the base Roe kit is the clear choice between the DIY kits. What I'm questioning is whether the Roe compressor will ever be a match for the Novi 2000 in a highly modified boost only setup--it certainly could happen, but it hasn't happened yet.

 

[1TONY1]

Who has run a 9 second pass with the base Paxton kit ? Who has even ran a sub 10.50 pass with the base paxton kit ? Whos got the balls to put nitrous on top of 15 psi ?

Simmer down there my budget minded buddy before I have to serve a subpoena duces tecum or something on you! I wasn't talking about comparing base kits, which is why I said "without worrying about a lot of other factors"--meaning, forget about dollars invested, boost level, heads, cam, etc. Obviously I singled NOS out as most people consider it another "power adder," and it does usually make a more significant difference on almost any combo than other mods. You're absolutely right that it is still a relatively short list, but the list of Roe blown cars in the 9's isn't really even a list--it's just you! And the list of boost only Roe blown cars in the 9's is empty, despite the fact that several cars with heads/cam/higher boost/water **** etc. have been racing regularly. Some of the Paxton cars have gone 9.7's (or is it 9.6's?) Anyway, I was talking about highly modded cars using those compressors, not base kits--I've said before (I think in this thread in fact) that I think the base Roe kit is the clear choice between the DIY kits. What I'm questioning is whether the Roe compressor will ever be a match for the Novi 2000 in a highly modified boost only setup--it certainly could happen, but it hasn't happened yet.

I AM NOT mad.... ....certainly not at you !!

I know....heads and cam and intercoolers are not power adders
:r o l l e y e s:

Why are the Roe guys running nos....because we can. You can run it on a higher boost centrifical...that may be like russian roulette, then again maybe not. Either way the gains won't be as much....lb per lb of nitrous.

This thread started out (I think) as a Roe s/c vs a base Paxton kit. I'm game for comparing the two. Larry is faxing me dyno sheets of both on cream puffs with the same mods. I would also like to see some et's on the base Paxton to compare. Heck, I know of several tuner cars that have barely (if that) out et'd some of the heads/cam Roe cars w/o nitrous. I think the gap would close considerably if we took away the "well known" tuner centrifical and Paxton heads/cam kits and looked at all the others we don't normally hear about and compared those to Roe cars w/o n02. I have personally driven a very stout heads/cam tuner Paxton and a heads/cam Roe car and the Roe car was faster/quicker (disclaimer: different tracks/different days) Could this answer your last sentence ???? I don't know, I was actually agreeing with your last sentence until I remembered that I have a little personal experience with this. Whats a good heads/cam no n02 Roe car capable of ? Cudaman.....what have you went no nitrous ? I'm thinking 10.10 to 10.30's for Roe heads/cam
cars ......take away the top 5 or so fastest centrifical cars (normally well driven) and then compare the two. A Roe car (no nitrous) set on kill like some of the centrifical cars will run a nine second pass. Maybe in December. I CAN prove this point, but I WILL need donations

p.s. I will admit to being "budget minded" but "broke" is probably a better word

 

[Shelby3]

Tony, Wat is involved in setting a Roe on "kill?"

 

[carguy07]

Seems kind of pointless to compare two blowers with no consideration at all for $ invested. Can we start this over with which is better for $8,000-$10,000, $10,000-$12,000 etc. Money=HP with few exceptions.

 

[STUGOTS]

I AM NOT mad.... ....certainly not at you !!

I know....heads and cam and intercoolers are not power adders
:r o l l e y e s:

Why are the Roe guys running nos....because we can. You can run it on a higher boost centrifical...that may be like russian roulette, then again maybe not. Either way the gains won't be as much....lb per lb of nitrous.

This thread started out (I think) as a Roe s/c vs a base Paxton kit. I'm game for comparing the two. Larry is faxing me dyno sheets of both on cream puffs with the same mods. I would also like to see some et's on the base Paxton to compare. Heck, I know of several tuner cars that have barely (if that) out et'd some of the heads/cam Roe cars w/o nitrous. I think the gap would close considerably if we took away the "well known" tuner centrifical and Paxton heads/cam kits and looked at all the others we don't normally hear about and compared those to Roe cars w/o n02. I have personally driven a very stout heads/cam tuner Paxton and a heads/cam Roe car and the Roe car was faster/quicker (disclaimer: different tracks/different days) Could this answer your last sentence ???? I don't know, I was actually agreeing with your last sentence until I remembered that I have a little personal experience with this. Whats a good heads/cam no n02 Roe car capable of ? Cudaman.....what have you went no nitrous ? I'm thinking 10.10 to 10.30's for Roe heads/cam
cars ......take away the top 5 or so fastest centrifical cars (normally well driven) and then compare the two. A Roe car (no nitrous) set on kill like some of the centrifical cars will run a nine second pass. Maybe in December. I CAN prove this point, but I WILL need donations

p.s. I will admit to being "budget minded" but "broke" is probably a better word

[/QUOTE]

Well put Tony.

From your posts on this thread I learned quite a bit about both blowers so thank you. (as you can tell before i knew close to nothing)

 

[RedGTS]

p.s. I will admit to being "budget minded" but "broke" is probably a better word

Somehow I think I could make a better case for "broke" than a guy who flies his own plane and owns TWO Vipers.

Personally I have no real interest in comparing the base kits because I don't think it's a contest, for a number of reasons. I'd buy the Roe every time. I even doubt you could make a good case for buying the Paxton base kit because you think you may want 1,000 hp down the road because so much of the base kit needs upgrading you'd be better off monetarily to buy the Roe kit, drive it a while, and then sell it and buy a custom Paxton tuner kit--exactly what I did. I don't think there is much of a market for the parts in the Paxton base kit you'd have to change out.

I don't know much about nO2 but am still curious whether it would work well with a centrifugal. And as far as comparing Roe/heads/cam to Paxton/heads/cam, I'll continue to watch the Roe cars with interest--if someone finds a way to make 850 rwhp and similar torque with the Roe on boost only, who knows, I might switch back.

 

[fuelman]

Tony, my stock engine Creampuff with headers, catback, 5lb Roe, and Macedo tuning made 565 hp / 605 Tq on a hot day this summer. With a 50-75 shot of N2O it made 653 hp / 745 Tq. For all those that say the Macedo Roe, or Tony's Roe cars have a lot of dollars in them, I would think again. Even the heads and cam cars are running stock botton ends and making great power. Chris Nap went 10.34 on Khumos at Bradenton at 135 mph, no nitrous and a stock 1997 motor with a lot of miles on it. I went 10.84 at 128 mph on drag radials last year no nitrous. I would have gone 10.7S if I hadn't busted a half shaft. With the small shot of Nitrous I am now trapping up to 134 mph, again minimal investment in the car, less than 10 grand in all my mods to date. If the person who started this post is looking for an economical and fast proven off the shelf kit, go with the Roe. I agree with Cudaman, lets see some of the owners of the 1000+ horsepower daily drivers, drive their cars into the record books in Bradenton.

 

[1TONY1]

p.s. I will admit to being "budget minded" but "broke" is probably a better word

Somehow I think I could make a better case for "broke" than a guy who flies his own plane and owns TWO Vipers.

Personally I have no real interest in comparing the base kits because I don't think it's a contest, for a number of reasons. I'd buy the Roe every time. I even doubt you could make a good case for buying the Paxton base kit because you think you may want 1,000 hp down the road because so much of the base kit needs upgrading you'd be better off monetarily to buy the Roe kit, drive it a while, and then sell it and buy a custom Paxton tuner kit--exactly what I did. I don't think there is much of a market for the parts in the Paxton base kit you'd have to change out.

I don't know much about nO2 but am still curious whether it would work well with a centrifugal. And as far as comparing Roe/heads/cam to Paxton/heads/cam, I'll continue to watch the Roe cars with interest--if someone finds a way to make 850 rwhp and similar torque with the Roe on boost only, who knows, I might switch back.

When the offense brought up my two Vipers and airplane....they just made the "broke" case for the defense

I have really gotten a lot farther into the Roe defense (bandwagon) then I wanted too. There are a few on here that needed to tell me: "to much cheerleading" I probably deserve it. My apoligies to them.

Centrifical and nitrous: I do have both on my LT-1 f-body. About 13 psi Procharger and a 100 shot. Maybe I need to rethink my earlier post because my et/mph gains on that car are very similar to my Viper. The difference in that car and say your car (redgts) is that you are starting out at a much higher hp/tq level. The LT-1 does have aftermarket crank/rods and most Vipers use stock crank/rods (doesn't mean they are weaker though)

That's an interesting position on the Paxton base kit for future upgrades. I thought that would have been a big plus for getting a Paxton. I will have to give that some thought.

Now, the DLM/Paxton kit for the Gen3......well those results are very, VERY impressive. Will it last ?? My money says yes because the DLM stamp is on it. I would like to do an install on one of those babies. Maybe the Roe kit will give a similar increase, only time will tell.

 

[TX WHOS YOUR DADDY]

Something for everyone to think about ...... Many of the heavily built cars when they are produced that are laying down the low numbers are being driven by " very experienced drivers" or some what "pros" IE: SW drives Dr. Roofs TT, Jason Heffner test drove Chad William into the 9's and Kevin has driven both of Undergrounds cars. There is nothing wrong with that .... what it does is two things: 1) enables the car to make the fastest times out the box. 2)Lets the current owner get seat time or acquires the learning curve SAFELY.

I personaly feel that the Roe S/C cars have had one true Pro drive one car and that is Tony Armour( All 4 drivers I have mentioned have racing for a VERY long time). Tony has driven his previous Roe setup to a 9.85 in Bradenton last year. When Tony drove his car to the 9.85 I would guess his car had about $ 9,000 to $ 10,000 worth of mods to it. But Tony could give a better figure of the exact amount. ALL of the Roe S/C Vipers are driven by their owners. HEY WARD U LEFT OUT THE BEST 6 SPEED VIPER DRIVER ON THE PLANET "BIG GUN" SCOTT WIECK.HE WAS THE FIRST TO DRIVE MARK HIEDECKERS NO2 VIPER A FEW YEARS BACK INTO THE NINES(THE OLD TIMERS REMEMBER} AND HE IS THE FIRST TO DRIVE AN ALL MOTOR ONLY VIPER INTO THE NINES. OH AND HEY WARD IM VERY PROUD OF U AND LARRY!LOL......BRINGING THE PAIN ONCE AGAIN THIS TIME AT BRADENTON,FL YOUR PAL NORM .....SEE U SOONER THEN U THINK

 

[CHAD]

What about the TT's. With my little bolt-on econo system from Heffner, the car ran a 9.5 @ 155.

Must have been the pro driver.

 

[CHAD]

BTW, bolting a S/C on a Gen III is like putting a ******* in a Ritz Carlton; delightfully tacky yet unrefined.

 

[CHAD]

Something for everyone to think about ...... Jason Heffner test drove Chad Williams' car into the 9's.

Hard Headed Cudaman

Don't worry buddy, I'll make ya proud. Car's just a little far away to drop by and test drive right now.

 

[MaxedGTS]

BTW, bolting a S/C on a Gen III is like putting a ******* in a Ritz Carlton; delightfully tacky yet unrefined.

yeah right you cant knock a 2 week install that gains 90percent more power for under 12 grand and drives completely stock and pulls like ***** ape. i ENJOY and drive it EVERYDAY.Do you drive yours everyday or do you prefer to keep it as a TUNERS SHOP CAR & money pit????

Max

 

[99 R/T 10]

BTW, bolting a S/C on a Gen III is like putting a ******* in a Ritz Carlton; delightfully tacky yet unrefined.

yeah right you cant knock a 2 week install that gains 90percent more power for under 12 grand and drives completely stock and pulls like ***** ape. i ENJOY and drive it EVERYDAY.Do you drive yours everyday or do you prefer to keep it as a TUNERS SHOP CAR & money pit????

Max

I'm assuming you're talking about the twin turbo, but I would like to know who installs it for $12K?

 

[CHAD]

Did you really bring up cars staying at tuners' shops for lengthy periods of time?

Now it is true my car is still in Baltimore but that is because the car made MUCH more power than anticipated and we decided we better build the bottom end. Pretty cool, actually.

As for time, Heffner just built a customer's TT in two weeks and you know you can't begin to compare drivability and performance of the TT to a bolt-on S/C kit. The TT does cost more but that is because it is a much more refined package, like the Gen III itself. That is why I think it is crazy to bolt antiquated technology on such a refined vehicle.

As for the Gen II's, there is definitely a place for a rauchous power adder (S/C) as nasty as the cars themselves.

 

[CHAD]

BTW, bolting a S/C on a Gen III is like putting a ******* in a Ritz Carlton; delightfully tacky yet unrefined.

yeah right you cant knock a 2 week install that gains 90percent more power for under 12 grand and drives completely stock and pulls like ***** ape. i ENJOY and drive it EVERYDAY.Do you drive yours everyday or do you prefer to keep it as a TUNERS SHOP CAR & money pit????

Max

I'm assuming you're talkig about the twin turbo, but I would like to know who installs it for $12K?

I believe he is talking about his Paxton bolt-on SRT.

 

[99 R/T 10]

That kit does NOT provide 90% more power, unless my math is way off