Roe vs. Paxton/Vortech superchargers. Which is better?

[SUN RA KAT]

BTW - I'm getting slightly more than 350 rear wheel horsepower at 3000 RPMs with my Roe at the stock 5 pounds boost as measured on the dynojet. This probably is why I like the Roe so much for street driving. It's only above 3000 RPMs where the almost too much HP Vipers have significantly more HP.

 

[2MANYTOYS]

If I remember correctly my car is putting somewhere around 900rwhp at 3000. I will have to check that though.

Tony is right, it is a different style of driving with each setup.

BTW, Tony you never did answer the question of how much NOS are you running someone asked that in an earlier post. I'm just curious, your car does run very well. I watched the video of you racing the Z06 and it does appear that you sprayed him the way you walked off from him. Good race by the way. I agree with you 100% run what you brung. You should always do what you need to do to make your car faster.
I'm sure you'll get a chance to run me, kevin, or other paxton cars in FL. Just make sure you've got a monster shot of laughing gas. Hopefully, none of us will break anything and be able to run the whole event. I plan on bringing some extra parts just in case.

STUGOTS do yourself a favor and take a ride in both setups so that you will understand the real difference in both setups. Better yet come to a V-10 event and you will have a variety of different setups to choose from. Maybe Dr. Roof will give me a ride in his TT or Tony in his Roe car. Tony does have the fastest Roe car out there, that's been proven. And yes he has went faster than all of the Roe cars with built engines as I think he is the only Roe in the 9's. I may be wrong though who knows!

 

[Qualitywires.com]

toomany toys...is that 1033 RWHP on pumpp 93 octane?

What other mods do you have?

Are you using the water to air set up also still?

 

[2MANYTOYS]

toomany toys...is that 1033 RWHP on pumpp 93 octane?

What other mods do you have?

Are you using the water to air set up also still?

No not on 93 octane.

Built engine by Underground Racing

yes

Is your car done yet? Any dyno numbers?

 

[Qualitywires.com]

it will be soon. I've been busy and haven't had the time to play.

Next is the fuel system

then half shafts

AEM hopefully soon.

I am working on a stronger tensioner than what the stock paxtons kit offers.

I will have the Paxton water tank heat exchanger for sale. The only thing I am keeping in the paxton is the bracket and and head unit...everything is well...needs to go!

 

[1TONY1]

BTW, Tony you never did answer the question of how much NOS are you running someone asked that in an earlier post.

That has been posted several times....no secret. The jetting indicates 75 to 85 hp. The actual rwhp is 100 hp on the dyno, maybe due to the intercooling effect.

900+rwhp at 3000 rpm ?? Is that right ? Seems like you would gain more than 130 in the next 3000 rpm.

 

[John Myrick]

2ManyToys - Check that dyno...

It seems unusual that you would only gain another 133 hp (900 to 1033) in the next 3000 rpm (3000 to 6000) with a centrifugal supercharger. Typical installations result in a continuous rise in boost pressure as the engine speed increases.

I'm not trying to imply that it is not possible, just that it is very unusual that the system makes 900 HP at 3000 rpm and only 1033 HP at 6000+ rpm.

I would expect a built motor with a centrifugal supercharger to make ~350-375 RWHP at 3000 rpm. That's not much more than a twin screw (Roe) blower would make at 3000 rpm. The centrifugal blower will start showing its potential around 3500 rpm and higher where it produces more boost that the Roe.

Let us know how close my guess is.

 

[Gerald]

I've owned both setups. Both are good systems. But there is something that Sun Ra Kat seems to always say in his posts concerning the Roe. He typically says that the Roe is better for street driven purposes. That the Roe makes most of its power down low where he drives 97% of the time. I don't disagree that the Roe makes it's power down low in the RPM range but I do disagree that the Roe is easier or better for normal street driving. The Paxton makes its power higher up the RPM range. Therefore, when I'm driving around town from a 1000 to 3000 rpm my car drives better than it did with the Roe. It feels closer to stock and it should, it is not pulling very much boost assuming normal driving or simply rowing up through the gears. You wouldn't know that my car has 1000+ rwhp. So I'm not understanding nor agreeing with the myth that the Roe cars are better for street driving. If anything the Roe I had was more difficult to drive on the street especially with an aluminum flywheel installed. If I didn't pay attention to how hard I was mashing the go pedal then I would start pulling a good portion of the Roe boost.
Unfortunately, most people on here that post one way or the other only have one or the other setup and have not driven both. Some don't have either setup. Therefore they are going to have a biased answer. Everyone likes to think that there setup is the best. In reality it is simply an opinion of how one person chooses to make bigger hp and which way he/she thinks is best. Personaly, I like the paxton better not only for the big power it makes but for the ease of driving it on the street.

:lol:

That's ok Tony, I won't hold it against you that you can't put an intercooler on your car.....and get some manly numbers.... I'll give you the lead. Cmon.. this will only be my 2nd time drag racing.....

 

[VIPER D]

But I still feel that to evenly compare the 2 you should have 2 running the same psi.

Ok so run them both on 10 or 11 psi on stock motors for 3,000 miles under boost.


vd..

 

[VIPER D]

ok in that case whats the max psi a Roe car can do (in your opinion) when it is properly intercooled?

AND WHEN IS THAT?



VD.

 

[VIPER D]

But I still feel that to evenly compare the 2 you should have 2 running the same psi.

HELLO STU, A Roe will not run the same boost, can't, won't, nadda. Would you ask someone to lower their nitrous shot...NO...so why would I lower my boost if I had a Paxton.
ANSWER: I wouldn't....I would tell you tough ******* Get some more booost.


Help me out here, I am trying to "intelligently" defend the Roe cars

Roe looks better?

maybe on a gen 1 or 2 but not on a gen 3 that I have seen.

vd..

 

[Casey]

[/QUOTE]

Roe looks better?

[/QUOTE]



Not from my point of view!!

 

[STUGOTS]

I agree with Casey on that one because I always wanted a chromed intake and with the Roe I can't have that.

 

[Simms]

The Heffner package looks 10 times better than the regular paxton setup though. Atleast I think so. That cross member is NICE!

 

[1BADSNK]

I've owned both setups. Both are good systems. But there is something that Sun Ra Kat seems to always say in his posts concerning the Roe. He typically says that the Roe is better for street driven purposes. That the Roe makes most of its power down low where he drives 97% of the time. I don't disagree that the Roe makes it's power down low in the RPM range but I do disagree that the Roe is easier or better for normal street driving. The Paxton makes its power higher up the RPM range. Therefore, when I'm driving around town from a 1000 to 3000 rpm my car drives better than it did with the Roe. It feels closer to stock and it should, it is not pulling very much boost assuming normal driving or simply rowing up through the gears. You wouldn't know that my car has 1000+ rwhp. So I'm not understanding nor agreeing with the myth that the Roe cars are better for street driving. If anything the Roe I had was more difficult to drive on the street especially with an aluminum flywheel installed. If I didn't pay attention to how hard I was mashing the go pedal then I would start pulling a good portion of the Roe boost.
Unfortunately, most people on here that post one way or the other only have one or the other setup and have not driven both. Some don't have either setup. Therefore they are going to have a biased answer. Everyone likes to think that there setup is the best. In reality it is simply an opinion of how one person chooses to make bigger hp and which way he/she thinks is best. Personaly, I like the paxton better not only for the big power it makes but for the ease of driving it on the street.

Very well said. Thank you.


Quote[But I still feel that to evenly compare the 2 you should have 2 running the same psi.]



Thats the whole point! You can't! Because the screw type can't produce enough safe boost to = the centrifugal. Has anybody here ever been to a Super Ford event, Super Chevy, Worlds fastest car shootout, etc.......? 99% of the fast cars either run Turbos, N.O.S., or a centrifugal blower. THAT'S IT! FAST equals 1 of those 3 power adders. End of story. That's not just an opinion just a plan easy fact.

Take a properly tuned screw type s/c Viper with as much boost as it can SAFELY handle and put it against a properly tuned centrifugal s/c Viper cranked out to it's safety max, go to the track or street(who cares), and the centrifugal will eat it up all day, everyday.

 

[RedGTS]

I would expect a built motor with a centrifugal supercharger to make ~350-375 RWHP at 3000 rpm. That's not much more than a twin screw (Roe) blower would make at 3000 rpm. The centrifugal blower will start showing its potential around 3500 rpm and higher where it produces more boost that the Roe.

Let us know how close my guess is.

I don't know how close it is to 2Many's, but it's spot on to my dyno sheet. My car made ~360 rwhp and 615 rwtq at 3k rpm and went up rapidly from there.

Ok so run them both on 10 or 11 psi on stock motors for 3,000 miles under boost.

Can't do it. The Roe blower won't work with stock heads at 10 psi. Sean's testing revealed this early on, which is why everyone running the 10 lb pulley has ported heads.

 

[carguy07]

"Take a properly tuned screw type s/c Viper with as much boost as it can SAFELY handle and put it against a properly tuned centrifugal s/c Viper cranked out to it's safety max, go to the track or street(who cares), and the centrifugal will eat it up all day, everyday."

Yes and no. Cost has to come into the game at some point. Who makes more power for 10 grand? 12? 15? When you take a base screw against a centrifugal with 10 grand extra in fuel, heads, intercoolers and tuning, sure it will always make more power.

And yes, there is a HUGE difference between street and track. RPMs mean something on the street. Most street guys are not running around at 6 grand looking for peak boost. They want to hit the gas and go.

I guess what I need to settle this in my mind would be to drive both "the way I drive" and see how and when they make their power.

I think what makes me go for the screw, is the power is there down low. It's torque I am looking for not HP. Hondas make HP but who cares? Does anyone have a pair of dyno runs to compare? Real ones of similar cars not stock against ported heads, etc. Who wins from a roll? I'm not going back to 1st gear to find power when I'm already in 2nd (that's the "street" thing to me).







I think that is it for me. Within a few thousand dollars invested per car, which wins from a roll, same RPM same gear. I really don't know can someone give me that answer???

 

[Gerald]

I think what makes me go for the screw, is the power is there down low. It's torque I am looking for not HP. Hondas make HP but who cares? Does anyone have a pair of dyno runs to compare? Real ones of similar cars not stock against ported heads, etc. Who wins from a roll? I'm not going back to 1st gear to find power when I'm already in 2nd (that's the "street" thing to me).

Perhaps you should have gotten an automatic then?? Gimme a downshift ANY ******* day...

 

[onerareviper]

I have driven a DLM car (stage 1+) (740 RWHP). My experience was it pulled as a stocker would from idle to 2,500 or so, then the boost came on planting you in the seat. After first gear, you really didn't notice much lag (if any) when powering through the gears (if you shifted at 5,500 or above). I had an opportunity to purchase this car for a great price, but passed. Why? The car made me very nervous powering out of corners. Once the boost comes on the power/torque increase is very fast, making it very difficult to plant the tires. I guess you could argue I just needed more experience with the car, which may be true, but I've never seen a centrifugal type blower do well with autocross or road racing events. With the Roe, you have full torque just off idle, so it just feels like a bigger motor. The torque is not really relevant to RPM, so there are no surprised (ie - you know the power/torque of the car at any RPM). I think this makes the car more controllable/predictable around corners. This is the reason I decided on a twin-screw. But like others have said, a lot comes down to preference and driving style. The best advice is drive both, and YOU decide (not some web post).

 

[1BADSNK]

Quote:
[but I've never seen a centrifugal type blower do well with autocross or road racing events.]

I won't argue with that. Drag racing or street racing though. Forget about a screw type.

 

[fast?]

john, my roe car made 400rwhp @ 3000rpm torque was 750ish @3000 rpm and climbing a bit and was as flat as a board until 5250rpm.. hows that compare to a paxton.

 

[STUGOTS]

Fast? what else do you have done besides the Roe and what psi are you running?

 

[fast?]

stugots, i have roe blower 2.5 inch pulley giving me 8lbs of boost. elites intake system(and it does help with cooling along with my vented cowl), ron davis radiator/ oil cooler, heads and cam, port matched intake, t&d 1.7 rocker arms, blue printed and balanced motor je pistons, carrillo rods, custom billet main caps, gts-r timing chain, spec stage 5 clutch and aluminum flywheel,bb 1 3/4 headers, corsa exhaust, weldon fuel system capable of supporting 1600hp(some day i will be able to utilize the fuel system) semiens deka 60lb injectors, and finally utah vipers methanol/water injection system(not used for the dyno #'s). i probably left something out.

 

[Casey]

Here is another picture of the beauty of a Vortech/Paxton blower!!

 

[STUGOTS]

Jesus Fast? thats alot of mods what are your peak HP/TQ numbers?

 

[Simms]

I won't argue with that. Drag racing or street racing though. Forget about a screw type.

There are plenty of Roe cars doing VERY well at the V-10 Nationals. Take a look at the cars Larry Macedo is producing, as well as Tony Armour's car. They may not be the hp kings, but their times are very respectable. Especially for the money they have invested.

 

[HOdbleFman]

stugots, i have roe blower 2.5 inch pulley giving me 8lbs of boost. elites intake system(and it does help with cooling along with my vented cowl), ron davis radiator/ oil cooler, heads and cam, port matched intake, t&d 1.7 rocker arms, blue printed and balanced motor je pistons, carrillo rods, custom billet main caps, gts-r timing chain, spec stage 5 clutch and aluminum flywheel,bb 1 3/4 headers, corsa exhaust, weldon fuel system capable of supporting 1600hp(some day i will be able to utilize the fuel system) semiens deka 60lb injectors, and finally utah vipers methanol/water injection system(not used for the dyno #'s). i probably left something out.

So basically a pretty run of the mill, stock motor.

 

[1TONY1]

THOSE TWO PICTURES ARE REAL BEAUTYS CASEY !!!!!! Now put the hood on and make the picture from the same location and see what you have got I'm more of a race than a poser so I really have no preference, but I do think it's funny bragging about a view you will never see with the hood on.

Let me tell you what boy's and girls. My car has a stock motor with rockers/headers/no cats/exhaust. I've got $100 bucks that says with no nitrous I can spank any Paxton DIY kit on a similar set up engine that shows up in Bradenton from a roll or at the drag strip. Further more, I've got $1000 that says I can beat that same car at the autocross with ANY driver. You game 1badsnk ????? or do you have a DIY Paxton on a Viper ? Have you ever had a Paxton DIY on a Viper ?

EDIT: p.s. I'm just in a MOOD right now so look over me if your offended.

 

[1TONY1]

[
:lol:

That's ok Tony, I won't hold it against you that you can't put an intercooler on your car.....and get some manly numbers.... I'll give you the lead. Cmon.. this will only be my 2nd time drag racing.....

Gerald, Why are you quoting someone else and replying to me ???? Did you not read my challange, it included a street roll. Have you never done that ? I think I have seen several videos....so much for that excuse Heres your options: Either race me OR you have to go to Mons with us

 

[1BADSNK]

There are plenty of Roe cars doing VERY well at the V-10 Nationals. Take a look at the cars Larry Macedo is producing, as well as Tony Armour's car. They may not be the hp kings, but their times are very respectable. Especially for the money they have invested.

[/QUOTE]


Trust me the Macedo Roe cars have lots of money invested in their engines and tons of experimenting with that s/c to run 10's.

The paxton car(Matt's old car) from undergroundracing with no engine work,exhaust, and a CENTRIFUGAL s/c ran 9's it's first race.

Maybe the guys that prefer screw type s/c can get Kenne Bell to develop a kit for the Viper that incorporates the Blowzilla unit. Then you would have something to brag about out of the box. Unfortunately it would be expensive because it would also have to include a new hood for the car since the screw type s/c doesn't even fit properly under a stock hood