Roller-Rocker Question /Oil Pan Question

[Viper Specialty]

Roller Rockers: I am planning on installing T&D roller rockers, and my question is this: I know I will most likely need new pushrods from TNT, but is there anything else I am going to need for the use of these? I read in one post about the need for stiffer valve springs due to floating valves-any truth to this?

Oil Pan: I also have my eye on the Oil Pan upgrade with Windage Trays, Trap door anti-slosh pan, and ACR Adaptor. My question is this: Is the PAN itself different than the 2002 oil pan? or is it only different from the earlier Gen-2 pans? In other words, do I need all three components, or just the second two?

 

[jimandela]

Dan,
Are you doing this work yourself?
if so, once you have it mastered on yours want to do mine?
Keep track of your cost and then add your labor and let me know.
I would rather have you work on my car than anyone else.

I asked my tech to install new roller rockers for me and he told
me no. not worth the headache to get them right.

keep me posted..

JIM

 

[Ron]

<FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Know nothing about the rockers, but 2000 on up have the good (higher capacity) pan and the improved windage tray. To maximize, you need to mod your windage, mod your oil pan cover and install the new baffles. </FONT f>

 

[Viper Specialty]

JIMANDELA- of all my Mods, I will be doing all of them but 2 I have determined. (at least, for now...) I was planning on having McCann Racing do my spoiler and Rockers. I met them all at their shop on the way to VOI7, and they are really good friends of John from Ohio-a friend of mine, who is also Robs brother.

Ron- what exactly do you mean by "modify"? is the "upgrade" pan they are selling the same as 2002 Stock?

 

[Hoosier Daddy]

You have the corect pan already and windage tray (2000 and above). My 98 had the smaller capacity pan (8.5 quarts) and different windage tray. What you need to do if possible. Get your own pan modified with trap doors (fore and aft) (contact Joe Dozzo on this board does a great job as he did mine) and then the ACR oil filter adapter swap out. That is all you need. I have no info for roller rocker upgrades.

 

[Viper Specialty]

HOOSIER- Will the Trap Doors/baffle assembly offered by PartsRack-(from which the pan is also available)-work for my application?

Also, you com'n over here sometime this coming summer? we cruise all the time...always looking for more!

 

[GTS Bruce]

Yes you can get the trap doors from Jon B and the new pan cover.Easy install. Bruce

 

[Ron]

<FONT face="Comic Sans MS">One of the pan upgraders, (I thought it was Joe Dozzo actually) adds not only the baffles within the pan, but opens up the pan cover in order to get oil into the pan quicker and then modifies the new style windage tray to direct the oil to the new pan cover openings.

There were some nice pictures of the mods a while back. Perhaps a search will find them.</FONT f>

 

[jimandela]

Dan
I have heard nothing but good things about McCann.
Good luck
keep me posted
JIM

 

[pauls]

McCann's are great!

 

[Mike H]

For the T7D rockers call Nick at Modern Performance in North New Jersey. He has done plenty of T&D's and knows the routine. His # is 732-222-3679.

 

[Joe Dozzo]

Hoosier's right, the pan and windage tray you already have are a great start. JonB's baffles will do the trick and there's some element of simplicty in one-stop-shopping. There's also a bit more work that can be done on the pan itself and what I call the oil pan top plate (there is a flat sheet metal plate that is attached to the top of the oil pan and is separate from the windage tray.) Oh, and thanks for the kind words Hoosier!

If you're interested, JonB and I have actually collaborated before, have the pan dropped shipped to me, I'll do my stuff and send it on. All your decision, of course.

Best wishes whichever way you go!

Joe

 

[Henry Cone]

We have been running Joe Dozzo modified oil pans and windage trays in both of our '96 GTS's for a couple of years now. The 2000 pan in my '96 was actually the first new pan that Joe modified. We have had great results in 2 years of Viper Days Michelin Challenge series use. Joe's modifications on a 2000+ pan and windage tray is one of first modifications that should be made to a Viper that is going to be tracked.

Joe's modifications are highly recommended!!!

Henry

 

[Viper Specialty]

JOE- Is that pan that JonB sells the same as mine? or would I need the PartsRack pan for you to modify...?

 

[Joe Dozzo]

Hello Daniel,

To the best of my knowledge, there are only two oil pans that fit Gen II Vipers, the 96 (or 97 for RT's) - 99 pan and the 2000+ pan. The 2000+ pan has slightly more capacity and the bosses cast in the 2000+ pan we all (me, JonB, Dodge and all others) use for our baffles are a bit more "flat", that is, the baffle doors fit a bit more flush than the earlier version.

Since you already have a 2002 GTS, I would suggest all you really need is an oil pan baffle system from someone. Which of us gets to be a question of price, system design and such. But I can't see that you need a new pan. I'd have a quick follow-up chat with JonB again, make sure he knows you have a 2002 car, perhaps he forgot or misunderstood - he's too stand-up a guy to sell you a pan you have no need for.

Hope this helps. If I can be of further assistance, please feel free to call or e-mail me.

 

[Viper Specialty]

JOE- does the Baffle system you refer to (the Jon-B baffle), include the "trap doors"? or is the baffle and the trap door mod completely separate?

 

[Marv S]

It's not very expensive protection. To modify your current pan there are 2 excellent kits to consider:

[email protected] makes a nice kit for both pre and post 2000 pans.


[email protected] can hook you up with a baffle/door kit that has a bit different approach.

Both do the job

I don't recall what the capacity is on the MPP pan. It may not have the higher capacity of the 2000+ pans. Jon B. was going to measure the stock 96-99 pan, the MPP pan, and the 2000 pan.
There are less expensive options than the MPP pan.
Both Joe Dozzo and K&P make baffle kits. Dozzo baffle is like the MPP (CDI) baffle design So put them and a 2000 windage in your 96-99 pan and it's pretty close to MPP.
I got the 2000 pan, windage, & Gasket from Jon @ PartsRack for great price. He now has the full kit of the above plus Dozzo's baffles.


Some basic info below. The Pics on the North Texas Site are Dozzo Baffles from PartsRack:

http://vca1.viperclub.org/ubb/Forum14/HTML/008712.html http://vca1.viperclub.org/ubb/Forum14/HTML/011156.html http://www.northtexasviperclub.com/2000oilpan.htm

2000 Oil Pan: Some of the internal casting CLEARLY shows Dodge is thinking about baffle systems. There are 4 cast bosses that look purpose-cast for this purpose - that is inner side is cast flat on the castings so that baffles will lay nearly flush when in the "closed" position. While most people don't talk about the windage tray, it really should be considered as part of the "package". The 2000 windage tray is a BIG improvement over the 96-99 tray and at about $60, IS worth obtaining - will work like a charm in a 97 GTS with either your existing or a 2000 pan.

2. Any pan with baffles (and all the 96-99 Gen II and 2000+ will take them with very little work) is better than without. The baffles Joe Dozzo has for the 2000+ pans are very simple to install An optional thing to do, in addition to installing the baffles, is semi-polish the inside of the pan. Viper pans, new and old, are very rough on the inside. The OUTSIDE of the pans have a slightly better finish than the insides! It's work an hour or so of time ($50) to smoothe the inside of the pan to promote oil return, rather than clinging to the rough cast finish. Does not need to be a mirror surface and some of the corners are very difficult to get, but I feel it's an hour+ very well spent.

3. Modify your 99-99 pan. This is the price performance winner if you have a 96-99. The baffles for the 96-99 Gen II pan are a bit easier to make and cost less than a 2000. I'd very definitely recommend a 2000 windage tray. (Note, Joe will provide a template showing where to add the additional drain holes at nocharge for those who've been buying the baffle kits to install themselves.)

4. I don't have a recent price for the MPP pan, maybe $1200? Yes, It is all factory parts, including baffles, but at a price and you still need a windage tray and might want to to clean out the inside! In summary...

1. 2000 Pan + Windage Tray ~ $500 assuming VCA discounts.
2. 2000 Pan + Tray + Baffles + "semi-polish" ~ $725 - $775.
3. 1997 pan + Tray + Baffles + "semi-polish" ~ $200 - $300.
4. ACR Pan + Tray + "semi-polish" ~ $1200+

Prices may have changed over the past 3 years. Just buying a 2000 pan (and tray) does little to improve the oiling system, leaving choices 2 - 4, all of which, in my opinion, are roughly equal improvements in oiling system performance.

<FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Marv S on 01-10-2003 at 06:27 PM</font>

 

[Ron]

<FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Thanks for the excellent write up Marv, but a question regarding your value assessment on the 2000 pan and tray alone.

Given the increased capacity vs. the pre-2000 pans, doesn't that alone provide an additional level of G force protection and is the basic reason why D/C changed the pan in the first place? Admittedly, the addition of baffles adds further protection, but the additional 1.5 qts. of oil the 2000 pan can take, especially given it's bottom feeder design, has to help the high corner oil starvation issue that early GTS's experienced to some degree.

My question would be if 2 and 4 are optimal, how would you rank 1 vs 3... Baffles vs capacity?</FONT f>

 

[Joe Dozzo]

Yes, nice write-up Marv!

 

[Jack B]

I just went thru this with Joe Dozzo. He is exceptionally helpful and does exactly what he says. I bought his kit direct and the ACR filter adapter from Jon B. His new kit and directions actually makes improvements to the windage tray that are an improvement beyond the performance of the ACR tray.

I did not change my (97) pan to the newer/higher capacity pan. In my opinion the baffling and windage modifications were more important than gaining the extra capacity. Does anyone know why the Gen I's went from ten quarts to 8.5 in the Gen II and then back to 10 quarts in the later models.

 

[Ron]

<FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Can't be sure, but my understanding was the reduced capacity was part of the engine weight reduction effort. </FONT f>

 

[KWIK]

Daniel,

Have installed 8 sets of T&D roller rockers, have found that the shim packages supplied with the rockers have been adequate to get the proper adjustment on stock cylinder heads. On cylinder heads that have been modified you may need different link push rods.

As for oil pan kits, I've been manufactoring the kit sold by Jon B at Parts Rack for the last four years. Of the four hundred plus kits sold, no reports of oil starvation. And Todd at Arrow Racing recommends my kit to owners. I have kits that fit the 96 through 99 shallow pan and the 2000-up deep pan. Give JonB a call and we'll both thank you.

To view the pan kit, go to Timberline Dodge.com and click on KAX Motorsports.

Ken Klickman,
Viper Tech