Rythmic knock when accelling

[PootyP]

Gen 3 27k miles
When driving and from what i can tell only when im accelling or giving gas i hear a slight knocking sound. What could cause this? My guy is looking at it and has chked plugs and says they look good. Believes cyl 2 bearing has spun and i have seen where wear can cause rhythmic knock. If my brg is worn, why and should i replace all or is it not necessary. Already catchin **** from wife on what it may cost.

Any info would be appreciated. And no i did not search this topic, i like to start my own

 

[Ratical2]

When I first read this, I thought drive shaft, but then you said bearings...so where is the noise coming from?

 

[PootyP]

Sounds like engine, but u know its hard to hear with exhaust

 

[runin1320]

Sounds like rod bearing from description. Hard to tell really without being there. How about draining the oil and sending off for analysis to look for bearing material?(since it is knocking, the oil might look like glitter anyway so analysis may not be needed)

Good luck. Hopefully the crank is still good. Don't run the engine anymore without finding out the source of the noise! Hope for the best!

 

[plumcrazy]

stop driving it ! and like said above, check the bearings and cranks.

 

[PootyP]

Thx. I will find out more this morning and let u know. Is this just some fluke? I mean the car only has 26-27k miles on it, doesnt seem like **** should be failing

 

[plumcrazy]

search my friend, search...

start here. http://forums.viperclub.org/search.php?searchid=1406239
then search arrow
or spun bearing
or blown engine
or rebuild
all under the SRT section

 

[speedracervr4]

I'd Pull the valve covers and make sure you don't have a bent pushrod, loose rocker arm, etc...should be a pretty easy check. Oil pressure good?

 

[PootyP]

ok read some of your search sections and see spun bearing is a common problem.. if i did spin a bearing should i go ahead and replace all of them and i see that some people send engine off for rebuild, is this necessary?

 

[TowDawg]

Sounds just like what mine did at around 30k and it was indeed a spun rod bearing.
I got lucky with mine because I still had about month left on the 7/70,000 and got the Arrow re-build.

 

[PootyP]

ok i do know the previous owner tracked this car a few times so it is all making sense.

Also the car is and 04 but has a few bolt ons so i am sure any warranty i might have is gone now correct

 

[SquadX]

I was going to say check pushrods first but I hope its not a spun bearing. If so, Id think you would want to change all. They are cheap but not sure the cost of labor.

 

[PootyP]

I will start checking my dealers on availability

 

[TowDawg]

Depending on the mods, they might or might not honer the warranty as long as you;re still within your 7 years. That's the great part about 2003 and 2004 models. They quit offering it after that. You just have to hope the original buyer took the option. They told me that (in 2003) at least, the original buyer had the option of the 7/70 or some kind of rebate at the time of purchase. Luckily, the original owner of mine chose the 7/70.

I had my Mopar race exhaust, no cats, K&N filters, AB's wires, and Quaife with the 3.33's when mine was fixed under warranty. I had a tune from VS as well, but flashed it back to stock about a week before I took it in. They didn't give me any trouble at all fixing it under warranty.

The other thing is that the way warranties are usually written, there has to be link between whatever mods are done and the failure in order for them to deny coverage. It's a pain in the ass if they deny you and you want to fight it, but given the cost of tearing the engine down to replace the bearings, it's a fight worth fighting IF they turn you down.

What kind of mods do you have? Can it be put back to stock if needed? If they are major mods that you're thinking about removing, I wouldn't post them here just in case they did some digging in you claim. ie, supercharger, etc.

 

[Martin]

I'd suggest having a dealer run a check on your VIN to see if the car is still under warranty. Depending on what the 'in service' date is, and whether you have the 7/70, you might be in luck. I've heard of this problem on several '03 cars, but I'm sure there are some '04 cars out there with the same engine and associated problems. If you get lucky, you might get an Arrow rebuild out of this - but it looks like you're right on the fine-line of any possible warranty coverage. Keeping my fingers crossed for you.

 

[bluesrt]

spun rod = pull motor and crank= oil pressure will show good on a rod, usually mains is what flunks on oil pressure

 

[PootyP]

ok checked with dodge and of course warranty is expired and didnt take the extended.
So far all i have from my guy is that two bearings have spun....

With this info in mind what am i looking at getting in to both mechanically and financially?

Also if i am getting in to something nasty here is there something i should do during the rebuild process

 

[TowDawg]

That ***** to hear about the warranty situation. The dealer told me the warranty repair bill came to around $18,000 for them pulling the motor, shipping it to Arrow, Arrow going through it and rebuilding it, shipping it back and them putting the engine back in.

I'm sure that number is heavily inflated, but labor is going to be high for pulling the motor apart to get to the bearings.

Then your next problem is controlling your "while your in there, you might as well" thoughts. I had a ton of stuff running through my head (forged rods, pistons, getting the heads ported and polised, new cam, etc) while mine was apart, but thankfully the folks at Arrow informed me they were only allowed to put stock components back in when doing warranty work.

Seriously though, if you can swing the cash and ever plan on making real power, doing it while the engine already has to come apart is the time to do it.

 

[plumcrazy]

in my experience, its gonna cost you a few bucks. its mostly because of the "might as wells"

might as well build it right
might as well get new pistons
might as well do rods
might as well do billet mains
might as well do ARP studs
might as well do head work
might as well do the intake
might as well bump compression or go with boost on top of it all.

a built engine will run you around $10 - 12K plus in and out labor of around $3K ? plus boost

 

[bluesrt]

you could roll the dice/ if the car runs smooth and your just a cruise around driver,pull the motor- put a crank kit in it and b done. i bet you can get by with that. a ton cheaper- i have done it and the motor never new it.

 

[PootyP]

well i am on pins and needles right now waiting to see what my guy finds as he finishes going through it if it even happens today!!
I will wait to see what he says we should do and if there is any rebuilding to be done he is the man for the job....
Fkin 10k good night my wife will have my balls.... and there is no way i could sneak in boost, that would cost me my pal as well!!!

Plum thanks for the list of upgrades that is exactly what i was looking for as far as a wish list of ideas

 

[plumcrazy]

if you search, there are a ton of build threads. even gen2 would give you some ideas.

 

[TowDawg]

Nobody said you had to add boost NOW!

You can build the motor up to handle whatever you can throw at it, and then add the boost next year.

 

[PootyP]

Ok here is the update...
three bearings were spun.. one was worse for sure... some minor particles in oil... also he said that the bearings dont look like they were starved for oil, maybe cold run to hard or over rev conditions cant really pin point exactly what caused this...crankshaft can see some minor marks but is in good condition...
Right now he want to see if they make a harder race bearing to go back with and flush the oil twice to clear most debris
you guys know of a good hard race bearing?

Any help thoughts bad/good are appreciated

 

[runin1320]

Ok here is the update...
three bearings were spun.. one was worse for sure... some minor particles in oil... also he said that the bearings dont look like they were starved for oil, maybe cold run to hard or over rev conditions cant really pin point exactly what caused this...crankshaft can see some minor marks but is in good condition...
Right now he want to see if they make a harder race bearing to go back with and flush the oil twice to clear most debris
you guys know of a good hard race bearing?

Any help thoughts bad/good are appreciated

Bearings are "soft" to protect the crank/rod. Much cheaper to replace bearings than rods/crank. I would just put in a set of quality bearings all the way around.

Like Plum said...here is where the "might as well's" start.

Might as well...put in a new oil pump.
Might as well...change the cam.
Might as well...replaice all the main bearings.


Sorry to hear about your situation....Hope you have it back on the road soon!

 

[AZTVR]

So, I have a question to the experienced guys. On a Viper engine, could you replace the main bearings without removing the engine, if the crank journals have no scoring that can catch a fingernail. Is it possible, is it false economy, or does it put inordinate stress on the crank to remove one main cap at a time and do this?

I did this on my Jeep, due to being cheap and lazy. The process is even described in the factory service manual. The crankshaft is probably similar or longer length. Of course, operational stresses on the crank are probably less on the Jeep.

 

[plumcrazy]

those might as wells always get us.....lol

 

[PootyP]

From what he says so far you can replace the bearings while crankshaft still in car. Mine is still installed he just rolled it and took off rod caps and i am
Assuming rolled out the bearings. He is mad bc cant figure out what caused it says there is really no abuse??

 

[PootyP]

Question still remains what are good main bearings

 

[cfiiman]

Sorry to hear about your misfortune, please keep reporting back until this issue is resolved so we can see how you got on. I'm still confused, if it is a bearing, why not just drop the pan and pull them off one at a time as asked above and put new ones in instead of spending $$$$ for a full rebuild, just asking trying to learn, is there something I'm missing? Seems to me that is kind of like rebuilding a garage b/c of the cracked window, so I'm just wondering what is wrong with doing it as stated above