Scratched Viper idea and going with a C7 Z06
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Caddylac10
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The C&D video states the Z will be under 100K fully loaded. Sounds like a ridiculously good deal.
The MT video talks about the new 8 speed. Chevy states that under full throttle shift times are actually eight-hundredths of a second faster than the Porsche's PDK.
A targa top is also available.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3cc059rg1A#t=395
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXIWZtpE5zk
The MT video talks about the new 8 speed. Chevy states that under full throttle shift times are actually eight-hundredths of a second faster than the Porsche's PDK.
A targa top is also available.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3cc059rg1A#t=395
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXIWZtpE5zk
Better suspension? Really. I thought the Vette is still sitting on leaf springs?!?!?!?
Nine Ball
Enthusiast
They aren't 1950's leaf springs. That statement is just as silly as saying OHC is better than OHV. Every design has its merits. The Corvette uses a transverse mounted composite leaf, a single one for both front and rear. It works very well. I also like the fact that you can change the Corvette ride height in 15 minutes, without changing the spring rate or ride quality. If anything, the Corvette suspension is more unique than the Viper suspension setup.
Me? If so must have me confused with someone else. Plus it's not like I'm bad mouthing the car. If your the same Nine Ball from the Corvette forum I remember seeing pics of your car collection, it's very impressive.
VENOM V
Enthusiast
Me too. I'm warming up to the new Z06 and fast. If only I had enough money for a Z and a V! Maybe one day I'll replace the Camaro with a used C7 Z06.
If you say Corvette, people say "leaf springs". If you say Viper, people say "truck engine". The truth is, like Nine Ball mentioned, even if it sounds antiquated, the Vette suspension system is actually quite good. It rides and handles well, and is simple to work on.
I'm sure the new Z will be a car comparable to the best out there.
Both are completely different cars and appeal to a different buyer. You guys are comparing the two like its a mustang and a camaro. Since when did the viper get put in to the same category as the corvette? If your thinking about a vett vs a viper then your are not a true viper fan and do not appricate all and everything the car stands for, period.
With that said, the C7zo6 is an awesome machine and will look good in my drive way while the viper and the cl take up the garage.
This thread needs to be moved to general discussion. This is the gen 5 forum.
With that said, the C7zo6 is an awesome machine and will look good in my drive way while the viper and the cl take up the garage.
This thread needs to be moved to general discussion. This is the gen 5 forum.
VENOM V
Enthusiast
Not a true Viper fan if one is thinking about a Vette? I agree that the Viper is in a class all its own, but give credit where credit is due. The new Z06 is quite a machine by any performance measure. And like the Viper, they finally brought the interior up to *****. I know a number of guys that own both Vipers and Vettes and they are authentic car guys to their core, they understand and appreciate all the Viper stands for. I choose the Viper above the Italian beauties, the Vette and all other comers. But if the Gen V hadn't come to fruition, I'd likely have a Z06 in the garage and on the track.
klamathpro
Viper Owner
The problem is the new Z06 is now in the same class as the Viper and is a direct attack on the GEN5. It beat the ZR1 record at MRC and is still in development. GM has now alluded that this will replace the ZR1 entirely and still be under $100k loaded. The old Z06 did the 'Ring in 7:22 with just 505hp. That was just 3 seconds shy of the ZR1. This thing will likely beat the old ACR records and the TA at just about every track. It now finally looks unique enough to truly stand out as not being your wife's Vette.
It concerns me for several reasons. I have always hated GM products and my grandfather and father even worked for them. When I was younger, I thought the C4 was boring and could not understand how that lackluster design lasted for 13 years. When I first saw the Viper, I had to have one. I knew one day I would. All you ever heard and saw in the car mags were comparison tests on how much the RT/10 and GTS spanked everyone. Well, two Vipers later, I am the perfect buyer for a GEN V. I have driven a C3, C4, C5, C6, and now a C7. What an amazing drive, comparable to an F430 in steering feel and acceleration. But this still wasn't enough to win me over. I still felt my GEN2 gave me more emotions, but man is the Stingray pretty close. I was almost set on picking up a TA until I saw the Z06 and read the specs...
The Z06 is going to be a mod monster, everything is forged and setup for more power. It looks like it wants to kill you. It looks like it wants to target and destroy everything in its path. And this is what concerns me... I just described the feeling I got when I saw my first GTS. Other aspects that were once held by the Viper... It will be a world dominating record breaker. (Never has a Corvette held this honor for more than a month since the Viper came out in 92') It sounds amazing from some of the reports. It will have a removable roof. It will turn heads, even if you see one every other day, it just looks that good. These things concern me because all this can be had for under $100k now and a perfect buyer and loyalist like myself is now considering just keeping my GEN2 and getting a Z06 to play in the street and the track. Had this been called the next ZR1 and priced at $130k+, I would have shrugged it off and continued on to the TA. I know the days of being King of the Hill are over and may not return. But even after all these amazing announcements, GM is still holding back the real numbers. They said this thing is at least 625HP. There are a few leftover ZR1's on the lots that need to sell first. I have a feeling it will actually match the Viper's 640HP when it's finalized. A simple pulley and tune will bump that to 700+hp. Calling this the Z06 and pricing it so right is as if GM is giving SRT the middle finger. I know SRT will likely respond back in full force with the ACR, but if it costs as much as a 911 turbo and doesn't beat the Z06, I don't see how they will sell any volume to fresh new Viper buyers. It ****** me off that SRT doesn't unlock that PCM and at least let the tuners upgrade the GEN5. That has been one of the issues holding me back from snatching one up. I want to be able to mod my engine without requiring a standalone. If I wanted a bump in over 100HP, I'd be looking at $20k with the GEN5. This would cost a measly $1000 tops for a tune and pulley on the Z06. Why doesn't SRT just give us a track fuel MAP option that opens the floodgates if MPG's are a concern? It could be turned on in the computer. And for those that say the Viper has more than enough power, you forgot what the Viper once was. It was once a mod king back in the day, capable of nearly doubling its output without needing a piston/rod/crank overhaul. There is never enough power and why would they bother putting forged parts on in the first place? It's like finding out that your really hot wife came with a chastity belt and you weren't given the key.
BTW, I ended up purchasing a C4 as a gift for my father a while back. I thought that would be the only Vette I'd ever purchase.
It concerns me for several reasons. I have always hated GM products and my grandfather and father even worked for them. When I was younger, I thought the C4 was boring and could not understand how that lackluster design lasted for 13 years. When I first saw the Viper, I had to have one. I knew one day I would. All you ever heard and saw in the car mags were comparison tests on how much the RT/10 and GTS spanked everyone. Well, two Vipers later, I am the perfect buyer for a GEN V. I have driven a C3, C4, C5, C6, and now a C7. What an amazing drive, comparable to an F430 in steering feel and acceleration. But this still wasn't enough to win me over. I still felt my GEN2 gave me more emotions, but man is the Stingray pretty close. I was almost set on picking up a TA until I saw the Z06 and read the specs...
The Z06 is going to be a mod monster, everything is forged and setup for more power. It looks like it wants to kill you. It looks like it wants to target and destroy everything in its path. And this is what concerns me... I just described the feeling I got when I saw my first GTS. Other aspects that were once held by the Viper... It will be a world dominating record breaker. (Never has a Corvette held this honor for more than a month since the Viper came out in 92') It sounds amazing from some of the reports. It will have a removable roof. It will turn heads, even if you see one every other day, it just looks that good. These things concern me because all this can be had for under $100k now and a perfect buyer and loyalist like myself is now considering just keeping my GEN2 and getting a Z06 to play in the street and the track. Had this been called the next ZR1 and priced at $130k+, I would have shrugged it off and continued on to the TA. I know the days of being King of the Hill are over and may not return. But even after all these amazing announcements, GM is still holding back the real numbers. They said this thing is at least 625HP. There are a few leftover ZR1's on the lots that need to sell first. I have a feeling it will actually match the Viper's 640HP when it's finalized. A simple pulley and tune will bump that to 700+hp. Calling this the Z06 and pricing it so right is as if GM is giving SRT the middle finger. I know SRT will likely respond back in full force with the ACR, but if it costs as much as a 911 turbo and doesn't beat the Z06, I don't see how they will sell any volume to fresh new Viper buyers. It ****** me off that SRT doesn't unlock that PCM and at least let the tuners upgrade the GEN5. That has been one of the issues holding me back from snatching one up. I want to be able to mod my engine without requiring a standalone. If I wanted a bump in over 100HP, I'd be looking at $20k with the GEN5. This would cost a measly $1000 tops for a tune and pulley on the Z06. Why doesn't SRT just give us a track fuel MAP option that opens the floodgates if MPG's are a concern? It could be turned on in the computer. And for those that say the Viper has more than enough power, you forgot what the Viper once was. It was once a mod king back in the day, capable of nearly doubling its output without needing a piston/rod/crank overhaul. There is never enough power and why would they bother putting forged parts on in the first place? It's like finding out that your really hot wife came with a chastity belt and you weren't given the key.
BTW, I ended up purchasing a C4 as a gift for my father a while back. I thought that would be the only Vette I'd ever purchase.
-nighthawk-
Enthusiast
Apparently they aren't going to do a ZR1 version of the Corvette, at least not within the next 3 or so years.
I think it's the perfect timing to come out with the ACR to put the Viper back into #1.
I think it's the perfect timing to come out with the ACR to put the Viper back into #1.
It is unlikely that you will be able to do a simple pulley and tune on the new Z06. It is a lower volume higher RPM supercharger. There are physical limits on how fast a supercharger's internals can spin. As to its road course capabilities vis a vie the production TA, I doubt that it will beat the TA on a road course if both cars are running the same tires. I think a 640 HP NA is superior to a 625 HP supercharged car in the road race environment.
However, with that said, it would be nice if there was a reliable, tested and proven positive displacement supercharger kit for the Gen V. Perhaps Arrow or Arrington will come out with one soon. Arrow in particular has a close relationship with SRT.
But, as I said before, the Gen V is fast - very fast. If you have not driven a production car through the gears, see if you can do so and then report back. I think you will be surprised. It surprised me and I was used to driving a supercharged Gen III.
However, with that said, it would be nice if there was a reliable, tested and proven positive displacement supercharger kit for the Gen V. Perhaps Arrow or Arrington will come out with one soon. Arrow in particular has a close relationship with SRT.
But, as I said before, the Gen V is fast - very fast. If you have not driven a production car through the gears, see if you can do so and then report back. I think you will be surprised. It surprised me and I was used to driving a supercharged Gen III.
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
Bruce H.
Enthusiast
The Viper and Vette have been in the same performance class for years. Now they've both improved recently...great!. Love or loathe their very different styling, but I can't imagine that those who could afford either, but love the Viper's styling, extraordinary paint and hand built quality, and exclusivity would be drawn over to the Vette based solely on performance that is yet unknown and marginally better at best. Modders could, I get that. Ferrari and Lambo won't likely lose any more sales to GM that they did to the old Z06 and ZR1, and may even do better as the desire for exclusivity becomes stronger. Viper still holds track records, and rather than going head to head with Corvette on price they seem intent on going after all of the more expensive and exclusive brands. I couldn't afford a gorgeous new F458 Italia, but I could afford a gorgeous new TA. The Corvette was never a threat to my buying the TA, and a track friend who prioritized price above all else chose the base Corvette with Z51 and MRS despite his serious concerns about its quality. He simply couldn't pass up $56k or whatever for a car he could take to the track occasionally instead of his GT-R.
Two track rats, two entirely different customer priorities, two different cars to address them. It's like Corvette and Viper brass got together and planned it that way...and it's working! The problem for everyone else is figuring out which buyer they are, and threads like this always get consumed with that struggle...and unfortunately for many, SRT shows no sign of changing direction.
Two track rats, two entirely different customer priorities, two different cars to address them. It's like Corvette and Viper brass got together and planned it that way...and it's working! The problem for everyone else is figuring out which buyer they are, and threads like this always get consumed with that struggle...and unfortunately for many, SRT shows no sign of changing direction.
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VENOM V
Enthusiast
Here's my track rat perspective, for what it's worth:
There's a side of me that agrees with you, because I want the Viper to be the uncontested champ. It's like having two football teams that you root for, one that you watch on occasion and one that you are fanatical about. Well I like the Vette but am a Viper fanatic. When those two teams play, I want the Viper to crush the Vette. But when the Vette is up against the Germans, Italians and Japanese, I root for the Vette.
Then there's the other side that could see owning both a Viper and a Z06 one day. It's good to have choices. I have two cars that I track, the Viper on special occasions, and my Camaro SS 1LE which is my low budget, easy to fix, easy to mod main track machine. If I scrape a wall with the Viper, holy cow what the hell would I do? Ship it to Prefix and add a second mortgage on my home to pay for the repairs? I'm exaggerating, but if I damage this beautiful Viper, it's gonna hurt emotionally and in the wallet. If I damage the Camaro, I buy a replacement fender from a junk yard and have it repainted for a reasonable cost. The Viper is clearly faster on the track, but the Camaro is lower stress because the stakes are not as high. I could see replacing the Camaro with a used C7 Z06 as my main track machine in a few years. I don't think the Vette would be as expensive to repair as a Viper due to their high volume and parts availability, but certainly more expensive than the Camaro so I'm still not sure if I could afford it as a primary track car. All you need to do to a Viper is put in a 6 point harness and it's track ready and safe. The Camaro, on the other hand, required major upgrades (suspension, engine, roll bar, racing seats and harness) to make it perform and safely. The C7 Z06 would not require much at all- just a roll bar, a harness, and maybe seats if the stock seats don't accept a 6 point.
They're both American, they're both at the top of their game and are the big boys that are dominant at the track. It wouldn't be all that bad to cross over to the dark side and also own a Vette
There's a side of me that agrees with you, because I want the Viper to be the uncontested champ. It's like having two football teams that you root for, one that you watch on occasion and one that you are fanatical about. Well I like the Vette but am a Viper fanatic. When those two teams play, I want the Viper to crush the Vette. But when the Vette is up against the Germans, Italians and Japanese, I root for the Vette.
Then there's the other side that could see owning both a Viper and a Z06 one day. It's good to have choices. I have two cars that I track, the Viper on special occasions, and my Camaro SS 1LE which is my low budget, easy to fix, easy to mod main track machine. If I scrape a wall with the Viper, holy cow what the hell would I do? Ship it to Prefix and add a second mortgage on my home to pay for the repairs? I'm exaggerating, but if I damage this beautiful Viper, it's gonna hurt emotionally and in the wallet. If I damage the Camaro, I buy a replacement fender from a junk yard and have it repainted for a reasonable cost. The Viper is clearly faster on the track, but the Camaro is lower stress because the stakes are not as high. I could see replacing the Camaro with a used C7 Z06 as my main track machine in a few years. I don't think the Vette would be as expensive to repair as a Viper due to their high volume and parts availability, but certainly more expensive than the Camaro so I'm still not sure if I could afford it as a primary track car. All you need to do to a Viper is put in a 6 point harness and it's track ready and safe. The Camaro, on the other hand, required major upgrades (suspension, engine, roll bar, racing seats and harness) to make it perform and safely. The C7 Z06 would not require much at all- just a roll bar, a harness, and maybe seats if the stock seats don't accept a 6 point.
They're both American, they're both at the top of their game and are the big boys that are dominant at the track. It wouldn't be all that bad to cross over to the dark side and also own a Vette
Bruce H.
Enthusiast
Good thoughts on having at least two track cars, Todd. I wouldn't be surprised if you decide to not track the GTS much after a while. Once I've taken the TA back to my favorite courses I'm likely to be rather selective about when I track it, and won't be trying to set any records when I do. Just too beautiful a car to want to thrash on a permanent basis or to risk emotionally. If I just wanted a dedicated track car to beat on that could generally dominate everywhere I'd choose the C6 or C7 Z06/Z07 in a nanosecond.
I want to like the Z06 but the styling just doesn't sit well with me, and if their target is matching the outgoing ZR1 in terms of performance then the difference between the Viper and Z06 on a track is largely going to be a drivers' race. Just be glad they're not doing something ******** like making it into an eco-diesel or hybrid...
Paul Hawker
Enthusiast
Interesting is how much this post is like so many that have gone before it.
Initially, it will look like the proposed car will be perfect. Fastest, quietest, never a problem. Will post the fastest times, get the best gas mileage, never break down, is a great price, has magic brakes, the smoothest and best controlled suspensions…it's gonna be magic.
Then the car comes out and the early adopters jump all over it…then the complaints start.
The paint *****, the dealers are charging way over sticker, the wheels I want are on back order, there is a problem with suppliers or the plant. The radio has lousy reception, the car overheats, the brakes overheat, the air con does not cool down a hot car. They early dyne results are disappointing, steering pulls to the left, the seats are uncomfortable, no place to mount a fire extinguisher or 6 point harnesses. The engine is getting recalled, the cars catch on fire, the transmission has skip shift…all the normal issues.
The manufacturer jumps all over the reports, and makes the changes that are announced for the next years model, and it starts all over again.
Chevy does not have the best reputation for first year cars, especially when the chassis, engine, tranny, suspension are all brand new for the release.
Initially, it will look like the proposed car will be perfect. Fastest, quietest, never a problem. Will post the fastest times, get the best gas mileage, never break down, is a great price, has magic brakes, the smoothest and best controlled suspensions…it's gonna be magic.
Then the car comes out and the early adopters jump all over it…then the complaints start.
The paint *****, the dealers are charging way over sticker, the wheels I want are on back order, there is a problem with suppliers or the plant. The radio has lousy reception, the car overheats, the brakes overheat, the air con does not cool down a hot car. They early dyne results are disappointing, steering pulls to the left, the seats are uncomfortable, no place to mount a fire extinguisher or 6 point harnesses. The engine is getting recalled, the cars catch on fire, the transmission has skip shift…all the normal issues.
The manufacturer jumps all over the reports, and makes the changes that are announced for the next years model, and it starts all over again.
Chevy does not have the best reputation for first year cars, especially when the chassis, engine, tranny, suspension are all brand new for the release.
Boxer12
Enthusiast
Lets put a dose of cold water to the mass hysteria that the bump in power has created over the new Z06. You aren't going to dominate anything but mag test laps and HPDE even if the Z06 does happen to be faster than the Viper. For example, not even talking modded Vipers there are tons of C5 and C6 Vettes that are running 850 NA HP and have wings the size of doors and racing parts galore at the track. There are GT-R's with mega-mods that you will encounter. Let's be real about the 'field' you expect to dominate. Not to dampen the enthusiasm for the new Z06, its a triumph for Chevy and I applaud it, but don't expect to buy one and go dominate at your local open track day unless you're running with other showroom stock cars. Same with your stock G5. There are too many modded cars out there to contend with. For the most part, you're talking about bragging rights which I admit does sell cars and a Ring time is a big piece of that (but certainly not necessary for some cars). It would hurt the Viper to be beat at the Ring, but right now the speculation is rampant due to the fact that the ACR spec Viper hasn't been revealed. It will be faster than a "GT", or a "TA", you can count on that.
VENOM V
Enthusiast
Sounds like we think alike! I buy track day insurance for the Viper, which takes some of the stress off. I think I will always track the Viper on occasion, especially with the local Viper club. The goal for the Camaro is to make it enough fun on the track that I don't constantly want to run home and swap it for the Viper, LOL.
bluestreak
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agree, and there are hardly any If any vettes pushing 850 na. With some skill it will be easy to dominate most events with just tires if not bone stock. It will not beat good drivers in cup cars and raced out c6, c5, viper, radical, etc. with an equal driver.
Other than those types of cars though, it's all over.
Nine Ball
Enthusiast
Stop making sense. You just shattered the dreams of all the bench racing magazine quoters. Shame on you.
VIPER GTSR 91
Enthusiast
These are all very good points and will probably happen but the same happened when the new Gen V Viper was introduced for many new owners.
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
Sometimes I wonder if I am even on a Gen V Viper forum.
The two most active threads here are about the Z06.
The two most active threads here are about the Z06.
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
lol, ain't that the truth
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