Since we have forged bottom ends, whats the horsepower limit on stock stuff? ---

[alwayscode390]

I was curious to what the horsepower limit was on our stock bottom ends before the engines have catastrophic issues?

When the issues come up , whats the weak link that usually causes the problems?

Thanks ---

 

[Blown408]

This is a great question I am interested in seeing what others say. All I can tell you is from tons of research before I bought my twin turbos, most guys run between 8-900rwhp without issue and some are 1000+

Seems most of it is in the tune.

 

[speedracervr4]

No definitive answer, there are too many factors to put a number on it. You're going to have people who say 720, 850, 1000 and the list goes on and on. There are guys out there running the stock block with 850-1000rwhp. Different components will stress the engine more than others (supercharger vs. turbo). The tuning is also extremely important when looking at longevity. Detonation will kill any motor, built or factory forged.

 

[alwayscode390]

So they are pretty much bullet proof if you have a solid tune? ---

 

[speedracervr4]

I would not say bullet proof because sh** happens. Like modifying any platform, the risk of failures goes up with the increase in HP/TQ.

 

[Red Snake]

You really should qualify which models your are talking about also. 2000-2002 have cast pistons that are extremely fragile. When you say forged bottom ends, the 96-99 are the models that include forged pistons.

 

[DrTaco]

You must be registered for see images attach

(or somewhere around there)

 

[dascorcha21]

keep in mind creampuff motors came in 1999 - 2001, and forged motors came in 1996/7-1998.

 

[Speed SG]

Forged motors came in 1992-1999 model year vehicles. From what I understand the power limits are greatly relative to how the power is delivered...via twin turbo, supercharger, ect. ( Large hot side, good tune)

 

[FastMatt]

You really should qualify which models your are talking about also. 2000-2002 have cast pistons that are extremely fragile. When you say forged bottom ends, the 96-99 are the models that include forged pistons.

My 2001 "extremely fragile" bottom end is making 909 rwhp.

 

[alwayscode390]

The Hyperuetic pistons aren't that fragile guys LOL ... they are a step below forged , and are more light weight. I don't think they would be the weak link personally

Thanks FASTMATT , that's exactly what I was looking for ---

 

[speedracervr4]

. I don't think they would be the weak link personally
---

What makes you say that? FastMatt owns his own performance shop and has fine tuned his Viper to his area/elevation, sorry but it's not the norm. No Viper tuner is going to push a cream puff motor beyond 5-8psi because they know from experience what will happen.

 

[alwayscode390]

OK, well I am not saying they will take as much boost as the forged engines will.

I trust what you say with our applications. I haven't done research in the boosting area in relation to Vipers.

I own a GMC Syclone and have messed with Turbo Buicks a little bit ... I see people push 25lbs of boost on the STOCK Hyperuetic pistons in those applications all the time. Just spray a little **** and they are fine.

Hence why I am asking the question , what usually fails first ... you are saying the pistons in the "creampuffs" ... what gives out first in the earlier engines? ---

 

[plumcrazy]

its all in the tune

 

[Red Snake]

For every FastMatt that has successfully boosted their cream puffs, there are probably 10 or more that have popped.

 

[mbccenter]

I would not push past 875-900rwhp

 

[evomind]

Most of the vipers that I have personally seen that were twin turboed or supercharged and running big horsepower were basically garage queens, and the owner tells me it has held up for like 4 years. Then he tells me he has like 6k miles in that 4 years.
To me those kind of accounts dont carry a lot of weight, there simply isnt enough miles to say it holds up or it doesnt. I know a few people with basic supercharger set ups that have held up well with lots of miles, but I dont think thats what the poster is referring to.
Those that have that kind of set up here saying they hold up under "X" amount of boost or horsepower, how many miles have been driven on these cars with 800 plus HP?

 

[plumcrazy]

valve springs are your first issue somewhere around 700rwhp

 

[alwayscode390]

Good answer ^^^

I also wonder that EVOMIND ---

 

[FastMatt]

What makes you say that? FastMatt owns his own performance shop and has fine tuned his Viper to his area/elevation, sorry but it's not the norm. No Viper tuner is going to push a cream puff motor beyond 5-8psi because they know from experience what will happen.

Make the motor make power first (striker heads/cam) then add the boost as simply icing on the cake mine makes 909 rwhp on only 8psi of boost.

And your mistaking what "will" happen for would "could" happen. Power does not brake pistons, detonation does. My cream puff has been supercharged for 2yrs now.

Forged pistions do add a larger margin of error, but there not required to make big power if you get the tune right.

 

[Roysviper]

My current 1000 h.p. HEFFNER TT Viper has 32,000 mi on it. It is not a garage queen and not trailered. I love to drive my cars and not afraid to go out to the Dragstrip in them once in a while when I want too.
THE last TT Viper I had and sold about 6 months ago for top dollar, not bottom line prices everyone keeps talking that our modified Vipers are not worth as much as stock ones are.......As is the case with every modified Viper I have ever owned......had 24,000 mi on it. When I get ready to get rid of my cars they are pretty much like new....I don't buy ***** Vipers and most Viper owners keep theirs like new. I have only seen 3 ***** Vipers since I bought my first Viper in 1998.
My ROE S/C Viper had 60,000 mi and was still going very strong.When I sold it, it was running AWESOME...
My wife and I have traveled from Florida to Vegas and back in these Vipers.Not once have we been broke down....
Just sayin......




UOTE=evomind;3151983]Most of the vipers that I have personally seen that were twin turboed or supercharged and running big horsepower were basically garage queens, and the owner tells me it has held up for like 4 years. Then he tells me he has like 6k miles in that 4 years.
To me those kind of accounts dont carry a lot of weight, there simply isnt enough miles to say it holds up or it doesnt. I know a few people with basic supercharger set ups that have held up well with lots of miles, but I dont think thats what the poster is referring to.
Those that have that kind of set up here saying they hold up under "X" amount of boost or horsepower, how many miles have been driven on these cars with 800 plus HP?[/QUOTE]

 

[plumcrazy]

what matt said, its all in the tune

 

[JAY]

Interesting perspective ! Thanx !

My current 1000 h.p. HEFFNER TT Viper has 32,000 mi on it. It is not a garage queen and not trailered. I love to drive my cars and not afraid to go out to the Dragstrip in them once in a while when I want too.
THE last TT Viper I had and sold about 6 months ago for top dollar, not bottom line prices everyone keeps talking that our modified Vipers are not worth as much as stock ones are.......As is the case with every modified Viper I have ever owned......had 24,000 mi on it. When I get ready to get rid of my cars they are pretty much like new....I don't buy ***** Vipers and most Viper owners keep theirs like new. I have only seen 3 ***** Vipers since I bought my first Viper in 1998.
My ROE S/C Viper had 60,000 mi and was still going very strong.When I sold it, it was running AWESOME...
My wife and I have traveled from Florida to Vegas and back in these Vipers.Not once have we been broke down....
Just sayin......




UOTE=evomind;3151983]Most of the vipers that I have personally seen that were twin turboed or supercharged and running big horsepower were basically garage queens, and the owner tells me it has held up for like 4 years. Then he tells me he has like 6k miles in that 4 years.
To me those kind of accounts dont carry a lot of weight, there simply isnt enough miles to say it holds up or it doesnt. I know a few people with basic supercharger set ups that have held up well with lots of miles, but I dont think thats what the poster is referring to.
Those that have that kind of set up here saying they hold up under "X" amount of boost or horsepower, how many miles have been driven on these cars with 800 plus HP?

[/QUOTE]

 

[evomind]

My current 1000 h.p. HEFFNER TT Viper has 32,000 mi on it. It is not a garage queen and not trailered. I love to drive my cars and not afraid to go out to the Dragstrip in them once in a while when I want too.
THE last TT Viper I had and sold about 6 months ago for top dollar, not bottom line prices everyone keeps talking that our modified Vipers are not worth as much as stock ones are.......As is the case with every modified Viper I have ever owned......had 24,000 mi on it. When I get ready to get rid of my cars they are pretty much like new....I don't buy ***** Vipers and most Viper owners keep theirs like new. I have only seen 3 ***** Vipers since I bought my first Viper in 1998.
My ROE S/C Viper had 60,000 mi and was still going very strong.When I sold it, it was running AWESOME...
My wife and I have traveled from Florida to Vegas and back in these Vipers.Not once have we been broke down....
Just sayin......




UOTE=evomind;3151983]Most of the vipers that I have personally seen that were twin turboed or supercharged and running big horsepower were basically garage queens, and the owner tells me it has held up for like 4 years. Then he tells me he has like 6k miles in that 4 years.
To me those kind of accounts dont carry a lot of weight, there simply isnt enough miles to say it holds up or it doesnt. I know a few people with basic supercharger set ups that have held up well with lots of miles, but I dont think thats what the poster is referring to.
Those that have that kind of set up here saying they hold up under "X" amount of boost or horsepower, how many miles have been driven on these cars with 800 plus HP?

[/QUOTE]

I honestly think thats awesome. I know the kind of work, dedication, time and money to do a project like that right entails.
Ive been around the viper community long enough (owned 4) and seen a good share of customized vipers to know that you are not the norm when it comes to big horsepower builds and the amount of miles you have put on them. Again, most of the ones Ive seen personally (dozens) with big HP dont have many miles on them. Either the owner is scared $hitless of it, afraid it will break and doesnt have the money to build it twice, just likes garage queens, or doesnt like some of the nuances that come from driving some of these on the street. I dont know.
Im just saying that with low production vehicle and an even lower percentage of big HP builds out there, seems like statistically its hard to get a good feel for what a reasonable expectation for reliability over time and use is.
Im not knocking anyones car, build, or anything like that. Just saying theres very few of them out there and even fewer with representative miles to base an educated conclusion.
Maybe Im wrong, maybe I havent seen enough, I just dont know but I think I make a valid point.