Six Magazine's Huh?

[shooter_t1]

I do not even get why people are arguing about this! For the record, no I do not own a 1:1 Viper and haven't owned one in the past either but who the heck cares as long as I pay what I owe for the things I want in supporting the club!!

Because it's a slap in the face to every other member who ponied up the price of a Viper, then pays the $135 to $150 for Venom membership compared to a non-owner (who's been active for 8 yrs) who has exactly the same access with few exceptions. So far I haven't heard a single thing to make me think any other way. And I am not the only member to think this way. I'm just the one not afraid to be the "bad guy" that raises the concern online.

 

[FLATOUT]

Because it's a slap in the face to every other member who ponied up the price of a Viper, then pays the $135 to $150 for Venom membership compared to a non-owner (who's been active for 8 yrs) who has exactly the same access with few exceptions. So far I haven't heard a single thing to make me think any other way. And I am not the only member to think this way. I'm just the one not afraid to be the "bad guy" that raises the concern online.

I'm with Shooter, it's dumb.

 

[NK BREKR]

I read this whole thread and I can't figure out what the big deal is for ITV to be able to come into the Members Only section, doesn't take away from my enjoyment or ownership experience. I don't know ITV personally, but know from reading his posts he's very passionate about all things Viper, the NY/CT chapter vouched for him and he's attended a few VOIs without ******** about the distance.

Let's not be elitist about this, he's just a car guy like the rest of us, plain and simple...no black ops involved... Viper Tony and Lee have addressed the areas of concern and they seem fair to me.

Oh and

So let's all just

 

[shooter_t1]

I read this whole thread and I can't figure out what the big deal is for ITV to be able to come into the Members Only section, doesn't take away from my enjoyment or ownership experience. I don't know ITV personally, but know from reading his posts he's very passionate about all things Viper, the NY/CT chapter vouched for him and he's attended a few VOIs without ******** about the distance.

Every body else that's "passionate about all things Viper" that wants full access to the forms on this site bought a Viper and pays for a membership. The only people that don't "***** about the distance" to the Viper OWNERS Invitationals are usually the people that don't have a Viper to drive to one.

 

[shooter_t1]

The magazine cover price is $9.00 per issue if bought retail without a subscription - plus tax if purchased in a store or plus shipping if purchased directly. The reason to consider bringing it back to store shelves boils down to awareness - both of the club and of the car itself.

As many, many people already know about the VCA - "you come for the car but you stay for the people." With the magazine now more club-centric than ever we are hoping more people will understand owning a Viper can be even more exciting when you are part of the VCA. As the majority of Vipers changing owners right now are used rather than new, many of those owners don't know about the Viper Club. Instead, they might see the magazine at Barnes & Noble and realize that there is a totally different facet to Viper ownership that they hadn't even considered.

The economics of retail sale are the main things we are weighing and there is no immediate plan to start stocking shelves nationwide. However because it costs very little to prepare for that possibility (bipad number assignment, bar code creation, and discussions with distributors), it only makes sense to explore it. Don't expect to see this next issue on store shelves, even though you may want to buy an extra copy - that we can do already.

I remember when I 1st thought seriously about buying a Viper. I looked for a Viper mag in one of the big book stores......Vette's and Mustangs galore, but as y'all know, no Viper mag. I hope it happens one day, as it could only be good exposure for the car and club.

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

I used to go to Barnes and Noble and buy the latest Viper mag issue before I was an owner. I'd love to see it back on newsstands!

 

[shooter_t1]

An as of yet unfinished discussion to set up associate memberships (see board/site suggestions section) that need to be paid for, something I would gladly do to be rightfully entitled to be in this section

FYI I did ask that question over there and it was not answered. Plus, because of the rules of that section no one else aside from admins can see it.

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Shooter, what the heck is going on here....You most certainly had your question answered in the other forum. In fact this is what you said...

"Thanks Lee, that was answered clearly and concisely and I appreciate it."

So why in the world are you inferring we did not answer your question and additionally now that I am reminded your question WAS answered why did you bring it up again in a thread that is about the magazine?

Let me make it clear for all, associate members are provided for by the bylaws, it is the option of the Region whether they wish to entertain having them. Associate Members are not allowed voting privileges nor can they participate in the raffles. But the bylaws and the site rules are completely silent on whether an associate member can participate in the VCA Members forum. So there is absolutely no violation of any rule going on here.

But in PRACTICE we have not enabled anyone other than this ONE grandfathered individual access to that forum, nor do we plan on doing so.

Additionally the NY/CT Region completely supports this individuals associate privileges. So no harm, no foul all around.

 

[InjectTheVenom]

I actually need to correct you Lee because it was on the second forum installment that I first joined (2001/2002-ish), when that crashed everyone had to re-register or something causing my join date to be 2004. Feels like a LONG long time ago. Still remember going nuts after finding out there actually was a Viper club with a forum of it's own!

 

[shooter_t1]

Shooter, what the heck is going on here....You most certainly had your question answered in the other forum. In fact this is what you said...

"Thanks Lee, that was answered clearly and concisely and I appreciate it."

So why in the world are you inferring we did not answer your question and additionally now that I am reminded your question WAS answered why did you bring it up again in a thread that is about the magazine?

Let me make it clear for all, associate members are provided for by the bylaws, it is the option of the Region whether they wish to entertain having them. Associate Members are not allowed voting privileges nor can they participate in the raffles. But the bylaws and the site rules are completely silent on whether an associate member can participate in the VCA Members forum. So there is absolutely no violation of any rule going on here.

But in PRACTICE we have not enabled anyone other than this ONE grandfathered individual access to that forum, nor do we plan on doing so.

Additionally the NY/CT Region completely supports this individuals associate privileges. So no harm, no foul all around.

Actually the clearly and concisely was because in any other question I had asked, (namely stuff about VOI) you were pretty condescending in your dealings with me. You weren't that time and I appreciated it. I should have worded it different then and I apologize, because it made it seem to you, that I was satisfied with your answer then. Plus, no one else could see our discussion.

On to this now. So this guy has enjoyed full access here for 9-10 yrs, yet has never owned a Viper. Pretty clear Viper ownership is not planned in the near future after 10 yrs of being a member here with posting freedom.. Like I said before, and what has been communicated to me, is that this is a slap in the face of EVERY other member, that in order to have the same level of access, has had to buy a Viper. Pretty unfair, no?

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

I think that everyone agrees in this matter and we are just extending it for no real beneficial reason. Shooter, Lee agrees with you, as does everyone else, but like so many other things in life, some things are " Grandfathered ," as there was not a definitive rule at the time or it was not acted upon. At this point , Lee, is stating you are right , but can't change what someone else ( the Board members, Natl. Officers , etc. ) decided years ago. Likely, due to your concern and others, it is stated you must have a Viper to be in the members section ( along with a paid membership ), but rationally since our friend in the Netherlands was okayed by others years ago, and he paid his share of what he supposed was an approved situation, it is hard to go back and take that away. We all make mistakes in life, but future boards saw this flaw and changed it, and at the same time did not try to override a decision made by prior officials of the Club , as that is somewhat counter productive in itself.

A mistake that is corrected, yet has some empathy for prior committments leaves me with alot better feeling than funds paid , but disallowed, and promises broken. I also know that many Dealers have been approached by ITV, and I do feel he will have a Viper one day.

Things are in place as they should be now, but nothing is ever perfect. One tiny misstep of years ago, does not linger and affect those today in my humble opinion.

 

[Coloviper]

So now that everyone has had their tiff, when exactly is the new magazine coming out.

 

[PDCjonny]

So, in this car club, ownership has no benefits. Every other member with full access had to buy a Viper.

Stop moaning.
Willem is in the Netherlands for Christ sake and has been here a lot longer than you.
He gets nothing for his money and doesn't cry about it.

 

[99 R/T 10]

Stop moaning.
Willem is in the Netherlands for Christ sake and has been here a lot longer than you.
He gets nothing for his money and doesn't cry about it.

Yeah, no joke. It's one guy. Just let it go.

"don't sweat the petty stuff, and don't pet the sweaty stuff."

 

[shooter_t1]

Stop moaning.
Willem is in the Netherlands for Christ sake and has been here a lot longer than you.
He gets nothing for his money and doesn't cry about it.

Oh well I guess that makes it ok then, thank you for the intelligent imput. Of course he doesn't cry about it, he's getting something that EVERYBODY else has had to pony up for, irregardless of WHERE they live.

Edit. Maybe one of the mods could move the relevant posts to a different section where we could engage in OPEN discussion.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Shooter .........you won, and it is time to move on. They recognized the issue a long time ago, corrected for all future situations, but they did the honorable thing. Seems like everyone today promises things then changes them when they see fit. Prior Board members okayed this situation, which was checked out by a Region wishing to sponsor the individual, and he paid. I am baffled why you are worried about this, since it is quite obvious everyone agreed that this could not happen in the future, but a " Grandfathered " condition shows honor and ethics. I would be way more dismayed if everyone checked on this, the Club said okay and then years later said , tough we got your money but we changed our minds. Integrity is the issue and the Club did what was right, but rectified it sensing that it should not be done this way in the future.

 

[shooter_t1]

Yeah, no joke. It's one guy. Just let it go.

....... Nope......

 

[PDCjonny]

Oh well I guess that makes it ok then, thank you for the intelligent imput. Of course he doesn't cry about it, he's getting something that EVERYBODY else has had to pony up for, irregardless of WHERE they live.

Edit. Maybe one of the mods could move the relevant posts to a different section where we could engage in OPEN discussion.

You win, Alice.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[shooter_t1]

I would be way more dismayed if everyone checked on this, the Club said okay and then years later said , tough we got your money but we changed our minds.

Not what I am after at all. I am not questioning this in order to force a win/lose situation, but a win/win.

 

[shooter_t1]

You win, Alice.

You must be registered for see images attach

Hilarious

 

[markk]

Not what I am after at all. I am not questioning this in order to force a win/lose situation, but a win/win.

What is the win/win situation? For a win/win, two parties have to win. You seem to be fighting only for your position to win. What would need to happen for you to consider this a win for both parties (a win/win)?

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

It already is a win/win...............it will no longer be done , but the Club will HONOR it's promises!!!

Once it does things like you want it becomes a win/lose, as promises are not kept. I am finished as this is simply an integrity issue and the VCA did the admirable thing, and to do what you want is completely lacking in ethics. I also respect what past volunteer Board Members decided years ago, and since you have been here only since 2008, maybe a few more years as a member will help you understand the respect folks that have to make decisions for a varied group deserve.

Time to go pet the sweaty stuff , as this is way too minor in scope for any of us to take up any more time.

 

[shooter_t1]

What is the win/win situation? For a win/win, two parties have to win. You seem to be fighting only for your position to win. What would need to happen for you to consider this a win for both parties (a win/win)?

I am glad you asked. If you'll notice, a lot of people have changed from Owner to Enthusiast. A good amount is because they simply do not have the time to be on here like some of us do, but still would like access to the members forums. These are all Viper OWNERS and have been shot down. Some of these owners have contributed quite a bit, some having access to info and pic's etc, from the ORECA Racing program, just to use one example. We have, with the new Bylaws being passed, the ability to make that happen. Why should people that actually own these cars be left out?

 

[shooter_t1]

It already is a win/win...............it will no longer be done , but the Club will HONOR it's promises!!!

Once it does things like you want it

How do you know what I want Pemberton?. Instead of attacking me with your "only been here since 2008" and saying I lack integrity, you might have, like MarKK just did, asked why I was bringing this up. My aim was not to deny ITV anything, just to bring up some facts about actual owners.


Just a note, after talking to you on the phone back when I was 1st looking to buy a Viper, I promised to vote with my wallet. To this day, I refuse to spend any money at Woodhouse...hows that for integrity?

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Attack , are you serious, I merely stated a fact with the realization , that after a few more years you might understand the difficulty in making decisions for a large group. We sure are not going to sell everyone, and we understand things will not always work out amongst folks, but not buying from us is not a question of integrity ,it is simply a matter of choice and you have that right as a consumer. On the other hand , this is a matter of a promise, and proper ethics demands that past and future Officers HONOR that.

As for integrity, where in my sentence does it say I question your integrity, as again it is just a statement of fact that this is an integrity issue for the Club, and VCA is upholding what they told everyone at the time. Most of us expect promises to be kept.

 

[markk]

I am glad you asked. If you'll notice, a lot of people have changed from Owner to Enthusiast. A good amount is because they simply do not have the time to be on here like some of us do, but still would like access to the members forums. These are all Viper OWNERS and have been shot down. Some of these owners have contributed quite a bit, some having access to info and pic's etc, from the ORECA Racing program, just to use one example. We have, with the new Bylaws being passed, the ability to make that happen. Why should people that actually own these cars be left out?

I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone who was a "Viper Owner" and is now an "Enthusiast" lost any access that they had. I believe it was just a title change. If that is true, then they haven't been shot down. I didn't agree with changing the titles and I have my own theories about why it was done, but that is off topic. If they lost nothing (except a title), then it really isn't a problem. Now, of course, if I am wrong and they lost some access that they had before, then ignore this post.

 

[shooter_t1]

I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone who was a "Viper Owner" and is now an "Enthusiast" lost any access that they had. I believe it was just a title change. If that is true, then they haven't been shot down. I didn't agree with changing the titles and I have my own theories about why it was done, but that is off topic. If they lost nothing (except a title), then it really isn't a problem. Now, of course, if I am wrong and they lost some access that they had before, then ignore this post.

No, I understand the "Owner to Enthusiast" change and agree with the reasons that were stated to all.

But, we have lost some Members/ Owners, who would still contribute to this forum, if there was an AM option. My point is that there is no AM option for actual Viper OWNERS. This is a car club. Without the people that own the cars, it would be a "wish I owned the car club". Why are the actual owners of our cars left in the cold?. I had to use ITV, (which made some people butthurt and jump to conclusions) as an example to facilitate the open discussion we are having now. Thank you for playing nice btw.

 

[JonB]

Actually, the last one was printed in mid-March and this issue won't be as delayed. The magazine is dependent on certain contributors, including advertising copy. The magazine is also reviewed by our friends at Chrysler to make sure that we didn't misquote anything ("Correction: The next Viper will not have jet turbine parking assist"). We also have this issue registered for retail sale based on additional demand.

We think everyone will be quite pleased with this issue and are already working on the next. We appreciate your support!

PS. You are always welcome to submit your questions, stories, and photographs directly to [email protected].

When Advertisors contract, it was crystal-clear that Ad-copy had a drop-dead date for each issue. Each issue had a mail-by date contracted. If AD-COPY from an advertisor is delaying the mag, that affects the 'exposure days' of the other advertisors who complied. Just sayin', not complainin'.

What retail outlets will have the mag? "Might be Barrnes and noble" was mantioned.....That could be a GOOD THING especially for Dodge dealers who advertise....

 

[XXX BLK]

Our very own NY/CT Member "ITV" We were all young at one time and couldn't wait to get our first sports car and Willem you are surrounded by a great group of men here and you will one day be a Viper Owner my young friend.... "Don't Give Up On Your Dream" and National can send you my magazines and I will go to the news stand and buy one because the NEW MAGAZINE kicks @$$ from front to back...Keep up the GREAT work some things are worth waiting for............

 

[plumcrazy]

IMO, getting viper magazine back into stores would be a big plus for the brand and this site/sponsors