Skip Barber Instructors

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Ga VCA President,

There do seem to be some who feel the driving events could have been staffed with better instructors.

I also suspect the instructor communication skills have changed a little from 1987. That said, there may be a few instructors that tasks great people skills.

It also sounds like there were some contract employees not from the regular Skip Barber program. This would certainly limit their ability to judge the car and driver.

This was a huge event with many driving activities running at one time. The Super Speedway had the skid pad and track activities and the hotel had Two autocross events all running at the same time.

Like any business cost is a limiting component. From talking with the instructors it seamed that most were from the Mid-West East. I would guess it was to expensive to bring in instructors from the West coast. (at VOI 4,5 and 6 many instructors were brought in from the West coast) so they hired other contractors to help.

Do you think this was a driving school?

After riding in a few cars with different drivers who "think" they know how to drive, but in reality are very lacking, your approach to such driver may change.

The N.CA. VCA monthly meeting was tonight. I had a chance to speak with a couple members who were very positive about their experience with their instructors(each had 5 to 6 different instructors). These club members have attended the Skip Barber N.CA VCA school and communicated well with their instructors.

There may have been a couple instructors that could have been better and perhaps a few drivers over estimate their driving skills.

Agree these instructors are paid but they are not paid enough to ride and be polite to drivers with an attitude and do not know how to drive.

If you think any of the driving events were schools you are wrong!

Again they were there for our safety and driving pleasure and not to baby sit drivers who had their own idea of what they wanted from the activity.

The in car instructor was there to maintain control of the driver. Based on the safety record for VOI7 they did a great job.

 

[slaughterj]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder:
Agree these instructors are paid but they are not paid enough to ride and be polite to drivers with an attitude <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Seems like a big assumption. I didn't cop an attitude, nor did I see or hear of anyone copping an attitude to the instructors there. Sure, it wasn't a "driving school", but what it comes down to is if people are dissatisfied with what happened, regardless of your or certain other people's experiences, then they are dissatisfied, regardless. I'm glad to know I got off cheap to find I won't attend a Skip Barber's school in the future, rather than paying the big bucks to attend it, and get contradictory instruction, have my rearview mirror taken over and not get used (I had to repeatedly say, I'd like to let the person behind me pass, because I could see them in my side view), and have my steering wheel grabbed without warning (I thought something was wrong with the car!) just to let a Skip Barber car go by me, when I could have been told "we're going to let that person pass, stay to the left and maintain / lower speed". The event easily could have been set up with 3 groups rather than 2 (our day/session was broken into 2 run groups, I don't know about the others), based on experience (never run, novice, and experienced), which would have been safer and easier on the instructors.

 

[ewave]

Fred,

To the best of my knowledge, I don't know you, and haven't met you.

Please don't take my challenge of your opinion as an attack of your character. That being said, consider the following points:

You state:

"It also sounds like there were some contract employees not from the regular Skip Barber program. This would certainly limit their ability to judge the car and driver."

That's quite a wild assumption- You are saying that unless someone is an employee of the Skip Barber program, it limits their ability to judge the car and driver???(!)

Why are you so biased?

You said:

"This was a huge event with many driving activities running at one time."

So we can conclude from this that if you have a huge event, do not contract with Skip Barber, or if you do, then expect poor and less than desirable instruction.

You ask:

"Do you think this was a driving school?"

Well I think the Skip Barber personnel were referred to as instructors. My expectations were set accordingly.

You try to defend the event with the statement

"I had a chance to speak with a couple members who were very positive about their experience with their instructors(each had 5 to 6 different instructors)."

Everyone else who has posted opinions here about the event has done so from personal experience of the event with out having to resort to hearsay. Hearsay is a very weak way to argue your point.

Reading all your defending comments about Skip Barber reminds me of the Stock analysts for Enron, who maintained their aggressive buy rating of the stock until it had lost over 95% of its value. In the Enron case it turned out that the analysts had a conflict of interest and their opinions were biased.

For the record, Fred, could you please disclose to us any possible conflict of interest that you may have- Are you associated with Skip Barber in any way?

One other thing: Jhhn Slaughter, I thought you had to be 21 to attend the VOI- When the instructor carded you did you hand them a fake ID?

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Hi Slaughterj

To compare any of the VOI driving activities to a Skip Barber Driving School or make a judgement on the same is 100% off track.

If the instructor took momentary control of your wheel to let another car Skip Barber car pass, obviously you did not need to slow down or he would not have been able to pass you. Perhaps the instructor did not want to give instructions that the driver may have not understood. If the instructor did not use the center mirror how did he know to turn your wheel to let the Skip Barber car bye?

Take a few driving schools, of your choice, do several Viper Days events then you will get a better understanding of your VOI experience.

And you may have had an instructor who could improve his communication skills.

 

[pdmracing]

Fred, please understand my comments pertain only to the Nashville superspeedway.I thought the rest of the events were fine& everyone was cordial.

As a side note, I have been instructing @ the club level & professionally since 1993 & I can honestly say I have never grabbed a students steering wheel or hand brake. And I have had some butt clenchers!! I think thats crazy!

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Hi Paul,

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ewave:
Fred,

To the best of my knowledge, I don't know you, and haven't met you.

Answer: I think this is correct.

Please don't take my challenge of your opinion as an attack of your character. That being said, consider the following points:

Okay and the Same for me.


You state:

"It also sounds like there were some contract employees not from the regular Skip Barber program. This would certainly limit their ability to judge the car and driver."

That's quite a wild assumption- You are saying that unless someone is an employee of the Skip Barber program, it limits their ability to judge the car and driver???(!)

Why are you so biased?

Answer: I may be biased based on my experience with Skip Barber. But the reason I said the Non-Skip Barber instructors "would be limited" is based on the fact that instructors with no Viper experience could not judge the barking, and general Viper handling characteristics as well as a Skip Barber instructor who drives Vipers routinely.

You said:

"This was a huge event with many driving activities running at one time."

So we can conclude from this that if you have a huge event, do not contract with Skip Barber, or if you do, then expect poor and less than desirable instruction.

Answer: Skip Barber is the largest driving school and arguably the Best, in the world. So they would be the only choice for this event. I do feel the quality of the event was very good. My point was that perhaps a non-S.B. instructor may have offered less input because of limited Viper experience.

You ask:

"Do you think this was a driving school?"

Well I think the Skip Barber personnel were referred to as instructors. My expectations were set accordingly.

Answer: Your expectations were wrong. Check the VOI7 information and let me know when you find a reference to a driving school offered at VOI7. Their role has been detailed in my previous post.

You try to defend the event with the statement

"I had a chance to speak with a couple members who were very positive about their experience with their instructors(each had 5 to 6 different instructors)."

Everyone else who has posted opinions here about the event has done so from personal experience of the event with out having to resort to hearsay. Hearsay is a very weak way to argue your point.

Answer: If this were a court of law your point would may have merit.
Most of the neg post were based on one drivers comments with one instructor. I spoke with drivers who did 5-6 sessions with different instructors which offer 10-12 data points vs the 3or so offered under this topic.


Reading all your defending comments about Skip Barber reminds me of the Stock analysts for Enron, who maintained their aggressive buy rating of the stock until it had lost over 95% of its value. In the Enron case it turned out that the analysts had a conflict of interest and their opinions were biased.

For the record, Fred, could you please disclose to us any possible conflict of interest that you may have- Are you associated with Skip Barber in any way?

Answer: For the record, my relationship with Skip Barber follows:

1. I worked with Bob Champine, "E", Skip Barber and the VCA to get a discount for VCA members.
2.0 I have taken the following schools:
2.1 2 day
2.2 Car Control Clinic - Four times
2.3 Three day racing school
2.4 N. CA. VCA Two Times
2.5 Lapping Days At Laguna Seca three times
2.6 Contracted five Skip Barber instructors to ride with N.CA VCA members during a Green Flag weekend at Laguna Seca.
2.7 Contacted an instructor to ride with me during a NASA weekend at Laguna Seca.
2.8 Contracted Skip Barber to organize our Zone autocross event.

This is the a full disclosure of my relationship with Skip Barber.

One other thing: Jhhn Slaughter, I thought you had to be 21 to attend the VOI- When the instructor carded you did you hand them a fake ID?


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<FONT COLOR="Green">[/color]</FONT c>

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

GA VCA President.

When a car is in a spin or expected to spin the hand brake will send the car in a predictable direction. This is a safety technique used by Skip Barber.

Assisting with the steering input is a common practice used by Skip Barber.

I have experienced this during some of my first schools and it is a great tool for safety and training. Turning in early is a common rookie error and one that set you up to go off track. It is nice to avoid off road trips as much as possible. When a car pushed it is common for a rookie to add more steering when the correct action is less steering.

Your instruction experience and tools for safety and teaching are not an issue to me. I have had a couple non Skip Barber driving schools/instructors. Their techniques are different. Given a choice, I will stick with Skip Barber's proven techniques.

 

[pdmracing]

Simple Question, if the car crashes with the instructors hand on the wheel or handbrake, who's fault is it? or let me rephrase, who assumes the liability the club or skip barber?

On another note, with so many rookies & I am sure no one had ever driven the speedway before ( it was just opened in the last year) Why no lead follows? It seems that this would have been the easy way to get everyone an idea of the proper line before an instructor sat in the hot seat. In fact first timers should have been limited to a lead follow sessions. I am sure there were a lot of owners who were just looking for a taste of track driving, not wanting to go all out. Something to think about for future events.

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

GA VCA President.

Crash liability=the driver. Remember the waiver you singed at registration?

Lead follow is a good idea but not practical for an event this size.

You are correct many drivers want only to cruse the Speedway. that is why every car has an instructor for safety and event control.

The idea to run groups that have like experience is also great but not practical for an event this size.

 

[Got Venom]

Wow this sure got out of hand. I would like to sum it up just like "Get Bit" did on the topic of $700.00 for VOI, but first I would like to come to Fred's rescue. For those of you that do not know Fred, he is one of the nicest and soft spoken and unpretentious guys in our club of 176 viper owners. He has more than most of us (4 Vipers)but he never pretends to be any better than the rest of us. He is always participating and giving of his time more than most of us. With that said, I would like to go back to what "Get Bit" said, and that is if you think Dodge did not give you your $700.00 worth for VOI.7, "Then stay home next time. We will not miss the tight wads". Really if you want real driving school experience, then you better expect to pay $700.00 for one day schools. Once you do this, you will know there is a huge difference between a school with only 20 students that they can really give you all of their attention for 8-9 hours. This was my first VOI, and it was exactly as I expected it to be. A great time getting together with hundreds of other Viper owners. End of Story........

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Dennis, that was a great story your wrote for R&D! You are a credit to your industry.

Hey all, some instructors are great and some are average. I have found that with many different driving schools. There is really no one right way to do some of the things they have to. All you can do is hope that the instructor you get fits your specific needs. In some cases I have been able to tell the instructor how I drive and that has been enough to get a little more control back. School cane be a learning experience for both parties.

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Hi Dennis,

Your are so kind, thanks for the nice comments.

 

[Tom and Vipers]

"Turning in early is a common rookie error "

Wow, my brain must be wired backwards.

Actually, I have always enjoyed entering slow and then playing with throttle the whole way around the corner.

I have never been accused of early turn in!

Tom

PS. Wow, my thread just won't die!

 

[Jeff Torrey]

I found the instructors to be friendly, helpfull and intelligent. Of course I listened to what they had to say and tried to put it to use. Remembering that they are getting into a car with a total stranger and that they were at my mercy on a certain level. I met a couple of them at the Waffle House next door to the Hotel on sunday morning. They were telling stories about hitting the wall at 140 miles an hour, etc. How many of the people that own these cars have never tracked there cars and it can get a little scary at times.
One of the drivers was telling me how he was going to be driving an Audi in the Petit Leman Race that was coming up. Another was so impressed that I drove the 92 down from New Hampshire he started talking about all his friends there. Apoligizing for the Ferrari logo on his Helmet. I must have go the instructors that Fred got.

 

[pdmracing]

Stop being so defensive, this is an open forum & these are issues that need to be addressed. Some people had great experiances & others didn't, if you don't express your views , how can management make it better? I for one had a great time, but from the many comments I have recieved, there is definitely room for improvement.

 

[Tom and Vipers]

Actually, every instructor I had said to go up to the wall before turning in to the infield turns section.

...and I was just "Sunday driving."

I would question that.

I saw no reason to get close to the wall at my speeds.

Coming off the high groove made the infield transition more severe.

Also, there were different instructions regarding how to come off the bank.

Another thing was quite amazing was that there was a drivers meeting before the autoX and NOT FOR THE SPEEDWAY!!!!!!!!! Even the 4 wheel drive putt putt drive had a drivers meeting.

Hello, isn't that a little bit crazy?

Frankly, I felt a little uneasy going out on this big busy speedway w/o any instruction.

Tom

PS. Well, there was a sort of meeting where Billy Bob was standing up on a table telling us how to interface with our instructors. But NOTHING about driving the course!

Did anyone mention this in the thread? I don't remember seeing anything.

 

[slaughterj]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ewave:
One other thing: Jhhn Slaughter, I thought you had to be 21 to attend the VOI- When the instructor carded you did you hand them a fake ID?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope, had other ways to prove my age

 

[slaughterj]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder:
If the instructor took momentary control of your wheel to let another car Skip Barber car pass, obviously you did not need to slow down or he would not have been able to pass you. Perhaps the instructor did not want to give instructions that the driver may have not understood. If the instructor did not use the center mirror how did he know to turn your wheel to let the Skip Barber car bye?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was speaking of two distinct events. During one early instance, when driving around the curve at the far end, the wheel was grabbed with no warning, which to me is dangerous in itself as well as moreso in a curve. At virtually all future "sessions" with various instructors, I had to point out about the cars behind me that I wanted to let pass and clearly were in position to do so. Rather than nitpick over the details, which in this sort of forum are often too much trouble to elaborate to the point that you avoid even the most unlikely points of confusion, you should see that there are differences of opinion, and it is those opinions of what occurred that will affect whether people will attend such a school in the future, and the bases for those opinions were experienced by many as expressed herein, so clearly there is a problem.

 

[slaughterj]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark Cooper Red 00 GTS VA:
I do not think the waivers said anything about a crash and someone else’s hands on the wheel or e brake.

If I would have crashed because the instructor pulled my e brake, or grabbed my wheel I would hold the instructor and the school responsible. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, and I'd've sued EVERYBODY!

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Hi slaughterj,

"During one early instance, when driving around the curve at the far end, the wheel was grabbed with no warning, which to me is dangerous in itself as well as moreso in a curve."

The instructor who helped with steering saw something you did not. Considering your passenger has safety (yours, his and others) as a priority likely his action was not increasing the danger in this specific instance. That said you own your feelings and it seemed dangerous to you.

Driving in a straight line, there are not very many situations that an instructor would need to add steering.


"and it is those opinions of what occurred that will affect whether people will attend such a school in the future"

1. There were no driving schools at VOI7.
2. Driving activities at VOI7 have no relationship to a driving school from Skip Barber, or any driving school.

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Hi GA VCA President,

"Stop being so defensive, this is an open forum & these are issues that need to be addressed. Some people had great experiances & others didn't, if you don't express your views , how can management make it better? I for one had a great time, but from the many comments I have recieved, there is definitely room for improvement."


I am not sure who was being defensive, perhaps you could elaborate?

VOI7 was the 4th VOI (Sebring-VOI4, Las Vegas Speedway VOI5, St Louis Gateway Park VOI6) that offered attendees an opportunity to drive their cars on a major race tracks for enjoyment and with controls for safety provided by Skip Barber.

In an ideal world some changes could reduce some of the misunderstanding of the event and prepare drivers for loss of the rear view, expect steering correction, etc. The cost and time to expand the track procedures is likely a major factor.

Suggestions were offered after VOI4 and 5. Regarding the track activity run groups based on experience was the highest priority. The objective was to have drivers with similar skills/experience run together. Goal reduce passing and closing speed. I have to belive this has not been implemented because there are likely 90% novice and 10% with various levels of experience. It seemed that the groups this year were from the same regions which is nice to be with, (have lunch, etc.) members from your region.

To address the complaints of the instructors taking control of your car, rearview mirror, adding steering, telling drivers how to transfer weight by lifting or braking, etc. At VOI-8 make it clear that the track event is for those who wish to experience driving their car on a race track for their driving pleasure, it is not a driving school, the instructor may add steering or brake(e-brake), and drivers will advise turn-in, barking, lifting etc. Failure to understand and follow instructions may result in reduced driving pleasure.

If you do not want to give up some control for these safety procedure skip the VOI track event, and sign up for "Viper Days" They have run groups based on experience and grid cars based on lap times which reduces passing. Spin, go off track, unsafe operation and you talk to their safety steward.


To maximize your daily driving experience and safety I encourage all drivers of performance cars to take driving schools, do autocross events and open track events with Viper Days, the best for Viper owners.

From my experience Skip Barber provides excellent programs with great instructors. The program they do for our region is great with a lot of Viper seat time.

They discount their 2 day school 20% to VCA members and all other programs are discounted 10%.

To all VCA members:
VCA Presidents were invited to Nashville to preview this event months before the event. If you have issues please bring them to the attention of your regions President to address with the VOI organizers. Putting blame on Skip Barber for your dislike of the policies is misplaced.

Event low was the rain on Th. and Friday. The lower autocross track was wet all day Fri. giving those on Sat. a big unfair advantage. But that is life, unfair.

The track event was Great except for the rain, my opinion!

 

[Mark Red GTS Cooper]

I do not think the waivers said anything about a crash and someone else’s hands on the wheel or e brake.

If I would have crashed because the instructor pulled my e brake, or grabbed my wheel I would hold the instructor and the school responsible.

 

[pdmracing]

read the tread

 

[Tom and Vipers]

C'mon!

No opinions on not having an instruction period before going out?

Absolutely NO establishment of passing zones! This in itself is almost criminal.

This was the most dangerous event and this was the ONLY event which DID NOT have an instruction session.

I think that trumps all considerations about safety.


Tom

 

[slaughterj]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder:
Hi slaughterj,

"During one early instance, when driving around the curve at the far end, the wheel was grabbed with no warning, which to me is dangerous in itself as well as moreso in a curve."

The instructor who helped with steering saw something you did not. Considering your passenger has safety (yours, his and others) as a priority likely his action was not increasing the danger in this specific instance. That said you own your feelings and it seemed dangerous to you.

Driving in a straight line, there are not very many situations that an instructor would need to add steering.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was plenty fine on the inside of the curve, which is not much different than being on the inside of the the straight. When my steering wheel was grabbed, I was not able to continue to maintain the arc I was on through the curve, immediately noticed there was a problem, and my first thought was there is something wrong with my car! The creation of that "oh $hit!" feeling that my car's steering might be out of whack on the curve and thus an incident might occur was a HUGE issue to me, since at that moment it appeared that the car was resisting my steering inputs to maintain my arc - you can't disuade me from the perception I had at that moment that I felt I was at risk, my car was at risk, and others around me were at risk, all because of this unexpected grab without notice! That's the problem! It it seemed dangerous to me, and apparently to others, there is an issue!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder:
"and it is those opinions of what occurred that will affect whether people will attend such a school in the future"

1. There were no driving schools at VOI7.
2. Driving activities at VOI7 have no relationship to a driving school from Skip Barber, or any driving school.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't say it was a driving school, I said it will hinder attendance at a future Skip Barber school. Stop trying to twist what I saying - instead, try to understand that their actions seemed dangerous (no warning steering wheel grabbing, and contradictory instructions), overcontrolling (steering wheel, rear view mirror, contradictory instructions with an air that "it's my way or no way" when the previous guy was saying to do something just the opposite!), and contradictory (see preceding) - all of which is a problem!

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom and Vipers:
C'mon!

No opinions on not having an instruction period before going out?

Absolutely NO establishment of passing zones! This in itself is almost criminal.

This was the most dangerous event and this was the ONLY event which DID NOT have an instruction session.

I think that trumps all considerations about safety.


Tom

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think a drivers meeting would be good. But this would be pretty hard to manage. And I would not want to be at the track with 100 plus drivers in a meeting, then get in line with a 100 cars. If you came late and missed the meeting you could not drive? Sorry I like the way this and previous VOI track events have been operated. The instructors in our cars take the place of the drivers meeting. The instructors do need to inform you that they may assist in steering, etc.

Passing Zones, The instructors define the passing zone. I am sure this is part of their orientation. I am comfortable passing any place on the track as long as the car in front knows I am coming.

Hundreds of cars and drivers on a track and how many accidents? This was a very safe event. From my observation, there were fewer spins and off track adventures at this event than "safe" open track event such as, Viper Days, NASA, Green Flag.

Consider this, it is a continuous open track driving activity with cars coming on track and off track all the time. All the other open track events run in groups and the track is cleared before the next group can enter. The safety record for this event is great, in my opinion.

Want to have changes made talk with your local President and ask him to bring up your concerns and suggestions.

Based of this thread I would suggest using only regular Skip Barber instructors (leave the BMW instructors for BMW events), and drivers should be informed about the possibility of steering assist and e-brake use.

Want to improve safety? Safety check cars before they can have access to the track. No Floor mat, no items in the car that can fly around. Encourage all drivers to take a performance driving school.

The track event is the best part of VOI in my opinion. It is a great opportunity to experience your cars performance on major race tracks, in a controlled environment.

 

[Tom and Vipers]

I had to wait 1.5 hours in the sun to do the Neon AutoX, it took me 15 minutes to get on the speedway.

A drivers meeting would be no big deal.

You start with perhaps 2 doz at a time, when done you get a yellow sticker dot to put on your windshield.

They only let cars out that have the dot.

Real simple and only a minor inconvenience because they only let so many cars out at a time anyway!

There were so few cars going on the speedway that I didn't have to take my helmet off between sessions!

Oh, and the Neon AutoX had instructors! Yet still they had a drivers meeting!

=========================================================

Actually, the track event was the best part of VOI!

I was disappointed that there were 2 infield portions to the course. I expected one and was looking forward to 3/4 of a lap on the banking. I guess speeds would get too high and tire life would become a problem - but tire life should not have been that big a problem if you were not allowed to stay out long.

However, I was told to expect 10 min on the track and that would be it. So I signed up for Monday at Viper Days.

However, I was probably out on the track close to an hour and I actually got my fill. Some lucky person got my place at VD when I cancelled!

I was very disappointed that only 1 AutoX trip was allowed.

 

[Tom and Vipers]

One other item,

Short Sleeves OK?

I never heard of such a thing!

Long sleeves are THE standard!

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom and Vipers:
I had to wait 1.5 hours in the sun to do the Neon AutoX, it took me 15 minutes to get on the speedway.

A drivers meeting would be no big deal.

You start with perhaps 2 doz at a time, when done you get a yellow sticker dot to put on your windshield.

They only let cars out that have the dot.

Real simple and only a minor inconvenience because they only let so many cars out at a time anyway!

There were so few cars going on the speedway that I didn't have to take my helmet off between sessions!

Oh, and the Neon AutoX had instructors! Yet still they had a drivers meeting!

=========================================================

Actually, the track event was the best part of VOI!

I was disappointed that there were 2 infield portions to the course. I expected one and was looking forward to 3/4 of a lap on the banking. I guess speeds would get too high and tire life would become a problem - but tire life should not have been that big a problem if you were not allowed to stay out long.

However, I was told to expect 10 min on the track and that would be it. So I signed up for Monday at Viper Days.

However, I was probably out on the track close to an hour and I actually got my fill. Some lucky person got my place at VD when I cancelled!

I was very disappointed that only 1 AutoX trip was allowed.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The drivers meeting for the Autocross activity with in car instruction was not necessary in my opinion.

Running groups of 24 plus or minus waste to much track time in my opinion. I like the system used for the past 4 VOI's.

If you want to limit track time to drivers who attended a meeting then the driver needs to have the dot not the car.(some cars have 2 drivers)

Driving 3/4 of the oval would present a safety issue, tires perhaps, but most dangerous, higher speeds and brakes (over heating). Sorry not a safe idea.

Short sleeves? What is your safety concern? Reminder this is not an uncontrolled open track event.

I think a tape, like on planes, could be played in a continuos loop at the track for those who want to know the basics. An in car view with an example of steering assist and e-brake would be interesting for those who are not familiar with these control/safety techniques.

 

[JonB]

I agree w/ Dave Golder. Getting into a 450+ HP missile piloted by a stranger, who is dosed w/ adreneline and testosterone, is WAY scary. (I instruct as well. Im Very talkative. I Occasionally use the heel of my hand, with advance warning, to help a student point their car correctly toward those more-vague entry/apex/exit points.)

On a single track, CONSISTENCY AMONG INSTRUCTORS is critical. We know each other, and what the other guy is going to do, and going to teach. We learn to teach a 'school line' so we can "predict" most actions of the car ahead. We demand this of each other. We occasionally critique the other instructors post-event. "You failed to point me by you turkey!" We re-credential each year.

FACT #1: Skip Barber hires (capable) OTHER INSTRUCTORS just for the VCA event and high-attendance corporate programs. These guys are not all "regular" Skip Barber Instructors full time. They had little time at Nashville to "get on the same page" except for the basics of safety. Their race credentials are real, but they may race F-production, or Mazda Miatas, and have NEVER been in a Viper unless as a Skip Barber "Real" instructor. Many temp instructors consider the Viper only a dream, and THEY have testosterone, too! Give em a break !

And, placed in a car w/ a Novice, they are 'beter than most' at keeping you safe, the main goal. But many are clueless on your powerband and best line. "They race a FWD Japanese car"

FACT #2. There are several lines around a race track, not just the "school" line. In racing, traffic makes you learn new lines every lap. Some are just better than others.

Fact #3: I just read an article in "Arizona Driver" magazine. Cover story SRT/10 and an F-16 race story. Authored by a well-credentialed "temp" Skip Barber instructor, EXCELLENT RACER, who describes VOI track days (quoting 25 instructors) "The Ride And Drive Program From Hell." Short version: These instructors would prefer a lot more quality time with YOU as well!

You GOTTA ADMIT that for the average attendee, the value-added to VOI is excellent, and the safety record outstanding. But an intermediate-advanced driver might consider it a joke..........

"smoothe is fast"................ be safe out there!