I'm trying to decide whether to go with slicks or DOT race tires like Hoosiers or Goodrich on my 02 GTS when I start doing track time (road racing) this spring. I plan to use my OE wheels. I was wondering if the slicks were faster then the DOT and which does better for weekend after weekend of use (heat cycling)? If anyone has some experience with either or both let me know. I'll be trailering the car to the track so no legal issue.
Slicks vs DOT race tires
- Thread starter Slammed
- Start date
luc
Enthusiast
Slicks will be faster than DOT but, if you have never been on the track B4, you should start on regular street tires, they will be plenty fast enough and give you better feedback until your driving skills progress to the point that the car/tires is the limiting factor and not you the driver.
DOT will last longer than slicks.
Open track/track time is NOT road racing.
You seems, and there is nothing wrong with it, we all started there, to be a complete novice.
You will have to start in open-track, in the novice group, and work your way up the ladder until you and your car are ready for racing.
believe me, at the begining ,Miatas are going to be faster than you, put your ego aside and learn.
Luc 00GTS (garage queen) 1991 Roush Mustang T/A (ex Tommy Kendall)
DOT will last longer than slicks.
Open track/track time is NOT road racing.
You seems, and there is nothing wrong with it, we all started there, to be a complete novice.
You will have to start in open-track, in the novice group, and work your way up the ladder until you and your car are ready for racing.
believe me, at the begining ,Miatas are going to be faster than you, put your ego aside and learn.
Luc 00GTS (garage queen) 1991 Roush Mustang T/A (ex Tommy Kendall)
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
I pretty much agree with Luc. I would add another advantage of street tires, depending on which you get, they will last longer while you tune your skills which will result in big money saving.
I ran streets for a couple years. After I flattspotted more than my share of those, I moved to DOT slicks and then full slicks. I won't go back to streets ever.
I ran streets for a couple years. After I flattspotted more than my share of those, I moved to DOT slicks and then full slicks. I won't go back to streets ever.
FrankBarba
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i agree...Started on Street Tires.....
pdmracing
Enthusiast
Also if you have a wreck that is covered by your insurance company, they better be DOT on the side of the tire. Trust me I know.
your friendly insuarnce man.
your friendly insuarnce man.
SoCal Rebell
Enthusiast
Luc uses the force, and wise he is
BTW, OE rims are a waste with "R" compounds, you need atleast an 11" front or even 12" (which I used) to accomodate wider fron tires for less push, and a lighter wheel (I used CCW) will give you less unsprung weight.
Hey Luc, have you met my new German Shepherd, Cutter yet?
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Boxer12
Enthusiast
What series are you in? If its Viper Days, then you face a substantial point penalty for running slicks, and will be better off running as near to stock car as you can with mods that will keep you competitive. If you have slicks, you will be in Super Mod with guys who put $25k+ in engine, drivetrain and handling mods into their cars. You will also want to add upgraded fr and rear swaybars (the adjustable type), and stiffer springs (& adj shocks) to take advantage of the the better traction of slicks. Have you put in a windage tray & valve cover vent kit (oil starvation probs can occur with greater g forces in long corners)? Racing pads are preferred with slicks (add $450 to your biweekly budget) for quicker grab, better feel and more stopping power with less fade (don't forget to change your brake fluid & use high temp racing type). Also, what is your budget? You'll want a lot of other goodies that will make your experience safer and more enjoyable. I would go to a VD event (Viper Days Driving School *** www.ViperDays.com *** - Home : Chicago Commercial) and get some instruction and talk to some guys first. They have a great driving school with experienced Viper instructors. Race (kinda) at Sebring, Mid-Ohio, VIR, Putnam, etc. Unless budget is not an issue, then go for it and start buying whatever you fancy. Wheels are a good place to start (I recommend Forgelines bc they have venders with spares at every event...see ArcherRacing.com) and at least half the field at VD will be on stock Michelin PS's.
SoCal, damn nice lookin Shephard. Where did you get him? PM me with *******'s name.
SoCal, damn nice lookin Shephard. Where did you get him? PM me with *******'s name.
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Early93Viper
Enthusiast
Get the best of both worlds Kumho V700s (If you can find them) 
Been tracking my Viper for over 3 years now and there a great compromise.
Pros:
Will transform your handling on the track.
Last about 5,000 miles for me even with about 8 track days on them. Although I run them down to just before the cords.
Cons:
The biggest con is the rock chips. Any sticky (R rated or slick) tire is going to pick up pebbles and sandblast your paint. This is really annoying.
Less progressive handling. It loses grip more suddenly.
Been tracking my Viper for over 3 years now and there a great compromise.
Pros:
Will transform your handling on the track.
Last about 5,000 miles for me even with about 8 track days on them. Although I run them down to just before the cords.
Cons:
The biggest con is the rock chips. Any sticky (R rated or slick) tire is going to pick up pebbles and sandblast your paint. This is really annoying.
Less progressive handling. It loses grip more suddenly.
Ok looks like I didn't mention I've been road racing cars/bikes on and off for about 25 years but plan to use the Viper for occaisional track days only and never have used slick and DOTs on the same car in the past and was wondering how much of a performance advantage folks have seen going with the slicks versus the DOTs on the GTS.
Boxer12
Enthusiast
I don't know anyone whose sole upgrade is slicks, but if you have the suspension track ready, you can expect at least a 3-4 sec advantage on a typical 2 mi track. I really don't know how the GTS will handle with slicks and stock suspension.
Bugeater
Enthusiast
Slammed - you obviously will see a huge margin on slick vs street tire (Boxer's comment), but the DOT R compound (say hoosier A6) vs a all out slick you probably wont see anything unless you have the car setup and the driver is used to 10/10ths in the GTS with slicks R compounds. If you have a line on good scrubs that fit your rim than go for them irregardless. Sounds like you have the track time...
The GTS stock suspension is fine, just need the proper alignment.
The GTS stock suspension is fine, just need the proper alignment.
SoCal Rebell
Enthusiast
First off you'll use a Hoosier R6S03 not an A compound. With a street/track alignment -1.9 front and -1.3 rear camber and a 335 rear tire & 305 front will net +4 or +5 second at 2.5 mile Willow Springs over a Pilot Sport. Maybe not the first couple of sessions but by the end of the day. Just be ready to only expect one weekend out of them maybe 3 days.
Bugeater
Enthusiast
You can use the A6's. They hold up fine for sprint races, which is typically a longer/harder track cycle than an HPDE session. They yield faster times than the R. I run them for qualifying mainly, but are fine for races. They drop off faster than the R's (due to softer compound) in terms of the number of cycles you can run but the first 4 are fast.
I know, A = autocross, but tell that to the national drivers that use them at runoffs etc....
I know, A = autocross, but tell that to the national drivers that use them at runoffs etc....
FrankBarba
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IF anyone needs a new set of 17's let me know...Hoosiers $ 500.00
WCKDVPR
Viper Owner
Hi Slammed,
Lots of great advice from a bunch of guys with tons of experience. I definitely second the fact that with slicks you are going to need track pads and without any front cooling, you will go through them quickly. And they are expensive. Also the performance brake fluid is a must for any track driving regardless of tire selection. Bleed the brakes often.
Other things to keep in mind going to slicks is your brakes will generate a lot more heat, shortening the life of your ball joints, etc (the rubber caps melt and things start going badly from there). Additionally, the increased side loads will wear out your wheel bearings quicker. Not sure if you have an ABS car, but slicks are very light and will lock up much easier than street tires (and flat spot in a heart beat).
To take full advantage of the slicks you will definately need the proper track alignment (or they will wear out very quickly) and though not required, I highly recommend suspension upgrades (shocks and springs) to keep the chassis from rolling all over the place. I ran stock suepension on slicks (Goodyears) a few times and it felt like a '59 Caddy. With shocks and springs it got better. Stiffening the chassis with a full cage helped a bunch and it is now go kart-ish. Did I mention brakes?
I absolutely agree to run a few times with street tires. If you then want to experiment, I would buy some scrub DOT Toyo Proxes RA1's from the World Challenge (WC) guys. Get 305 fronts and 335 rears. Smaller fronts (285) will not turn in. Heck, get 335 for the front as well. They can be had at WC events for around $30 each or at anytime for something near $80 each from guys who make a business reselling them.
Slicks drop off very quickly with heat cycles but I found them approximately 2 seconds quicker than DOTs (at Thunderhill - 3 miles) when compared new tire to new tire. I can get two days out of a set of front slicks and 3-4 days out of the rears before I hit the cords. With Goodyear slicks 25.5x12.5-18 I run the following: Camber FR -2.5, RR -1.2; Castor FR +6.5, RR +1.0; Toe FR 1/8" out, RR 1/8" in, and a 1/4" rake on the ride height (front lower). With DOTs, check with the manufacturer but you will likely want to run lots camber in the front. A tire temp gauge is a real good investment and will be paid back in extended tire life in no time.
Have a great time.
Hey SoCal, what are you driving these days?
Lots of great advice from a bunch of guys with tons of experience. I definitely second the fact that with slicks you are going to need track pads and without any front cooling, you will go through them quickly. And they are expensive. Also the performance brake fluid is a must for any track driving regardless of tire selection. Bleed the brakes often.
Other things to keep in mind going to slicks is your brakes will generate a lot more heat, shortening the life of your ball joints, etc (the rubber caps melt and things start going badly from there). Additionally, the increased side loads will wear out your wheel bearings quicker. Not sure if you have an ABS car, but slicks are very light and will lock up much easier than street tires (and flat spot in a heart beat).
To take full advantage of the slicks you will definately need the proper track alignment (or they will wear out very quickly) and though not required, I highly recommend suspension upgrades (shocks and springs) to keep the chassis from rolling all over the place. I ran stock suepension on slicks (Goodyears) a few times and it felt like a '59 Caddy. With shocks and springs it got better. Stiffening the chassis with a full cage helped a bunch and it is now go kart-ish. Did I mention brakes?
I absolutely agree to run a few times with street tires. If you then want to experiment, I would buy some scrub DOT Toyo Proxes RA1's from the World Challenge (WC) guys. Get 305 fronts and 335 rears. Smaller fronts (285) will not turn in. Heck, get 335 for the front as well. They can be had at WC events for around $30 each or at anytime for something near $80 each from guys who make a business reselling them.
Slicks drop off very quickly with heat cycles but I found them approximately 2 seconds quicker than DOTs (at Thunderhill - 3 miles) when compared new tire to new tire. I can get two days out of a set of front slicks and 3-4 days out of the rears before I hit the cords. With Goodyear slicks 25.5x12.5-18 I run the following: Camber FR -2.5, RR -1.2; Castor FR +6.5, RR +1.0; Toe FR 1/8" out, RR 1/8" in, and a 1/4" rake on the ride height (front lower). With DOTs, check with the manufacturer but you will likely want to run lots camber in the front. A tire temp gauge is a real good investment and will be paid back in extended tire life in no time.
Have a great time.
Hey SoCal, what are you driving these days?
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Bugeater
Enthusiast
Damn Mike we have almost the same base alignment settings! Any idea what ride height you are running, and where do you measure from? Curious to ya'lls spring rates as well. Oh yeah and are you running stock swaybars or ???
