SRT: Please Pay Attention

[Nine Ball]

GM has already released the tuning support for the upcoming 2014+ LT1 V8 trucks and C7 Corvette. Before the vehicles are even available.

http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?22637-E92-ECM-support-released

If SRT would like to see a huge increase in sales due to the aftermarket support, especially on the SRT-8 vehicles, then they need to allow the cars to be custom tuned.

Thanks for your time.

Tony

 

[Baked]

Couldn't agree more!!!

 

[JAY]

Good Point ! ^^^^^^^
Both the Blue Oval and Bow tie guys get this .

 

[HyperViper]

Makes sense to me!

 

[BigDawg]

Exactly. I remember Ralph saying they didn't because of some customers blowing their engine up in Dodge diesels. If Ford and GM can do it...

 

[Steve M]

All they have to do is what GM has done: make it so that any changes made to the PCM are logged. If the dealer didn't do it, then ****! No more warranty for the engine, or anything else that was damaged by it. Those that are willing to take the risk of voiding the warranty can do so, and those that are no longer under warranty can mod if they so desire.

 

[Boxer12]

I really don't get it..they put forged internals in the motor to appeal to guys who want to do aftermarket add ons, and then they don't release the codes? Makes no sense.

 

[Kevan]

It's not only warranty.
It's liability.

 

[HANKFAN]

I personally refuse to buy a Gen V until the information is released to the aftermarket so that forced induction can be added to these cars. The day this information is released, SRT you will have my order. The Gen V would appeal to a much larger group if you were able to mod and tune the cars. I hope SRT listens to it's buyers and makes it available, if not GM and Ford will take a lot of potential buyers from SRT.

 

[troublemaker]

It's not only warranty.
It's liability.

Warranty, liability, it's all out the window if you mess with the PCM. I know when I was car shopping, the Gen4s weren't even a consideration based on the locked computer. No way in hell Am I going to let a car company tell me what I can or can't do to my car. I understand that I am responsible for the ramifications from there on out, the end. Now that the company is being led by its parent company that caters to a group that couldn't change their own oil if they wanted to, I think the chances are even slimmer. See my signature below before any rebuttal.

 

[HANKFAN]

I really don't get it..they put forged internals in the motor to appeal to guys who want to do aftermarket add ons, and then they don't release the codes? Makes no sense.

I could not agree more. This is why I am hoping SRT has had plans all along to release the code at some point. If not why would they even bother with forged internals?

 

[GTS-R 001]

I really don't get it..they put forged internals in the motor to appeal to guys who want to do aftermarket add ons, and then they don't release the codes? Makes no sense.

They probably didn't put the forged internals in for modding, they probably did it because they had too many issues with the pistons they had in there for the very limited # of units they made and sold in 08,09 and 10. It just looks like they did it for the modders

 

[madninjaskillz]

SRT needs to make the codes available, like yesterday. Agree with all above posts. You guys at SRT/DODGE/FIAT are only hurting your own business. WAKE THE @#%# UP!

 

[VENOM V]

Ok, I'm confused. This thread says it'll be available soon, unless I'm missing something or this is unconfirmed...

http://forums.viperclub.org/threads...v-5-used-at............?p=3181424#post3181424

 

[ROCKET62]

So Chevy and Ford are not concerned with liability?

No excuse for leaving us Gen 4 guys out in the cold.

It's not only warranty.
It's liability.

 

[Nine Ball]

Ok, I'm confused. This thread says it'll be available soon, unless I'm missing something or this is unconfirmed...

http://forums.viperclub.org/threads...v-5-used-at............?p=3181424#post3181424

Mopar PCM is a canned tune. It is not customizable, and is intended for a factory stock Viper engine. Worthless for those who want to add turbos or superchargers, or aftermarket cam.

 

[SilveRT8]

Mopar PCM is a canned tune. It is not customizable, and is intended for a factory stock Viper engine. Worthless for those who want to add turbos or superchargers, or aftermarket cam.

Agreed, but SRT should at the very minimum get the Mopar PCM out very soon, so we can at least add the basic mods like headers and HF cats without running into codes

 

[TrackAire]

So Chevy and Ford are not concerned with liability?

No excuse for leaving us Gen 4 guys out in the cold.

Exactly....apparently our parent company has no problem with the liability issue since Fiat, Ferrari and Maserati's are sold here and are tune-able.

SRT may not technically own the rights to the code (as I brought up in other threads) but we'll never know because they won't discuss this. All I know is I'm making decisions that are now costing sales of other Chrysler products to the competition. Did not even consider the Jeep SRT8 when adding a new SUV to the fleet and won't even test drive the Ram Cummins when I update my Ford F350 later this year. So it looks like either another Ford or GM one ton is going to be the choice.

I would have a lot more respect for SRT if they would just discuss this officially and either say it is going to happen or not going to happen. In the mean time, tens of thousands of dollars are going to other manufacturers. And you know what, I'm finding that there are a lot of fantastic other vehicles as options, some that I would have never considered before.

George

 

[SADVIPER]

forged pistons got to have some offecial tunings and parts from SRT or Mopar...

 

[chorps]

GM has already released the tuning support for the upcoming 2014+ LT1 V8 trucks and C7 Corvette. Before the vehicles are even available.

http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?22637-E92-ECM-support-released

If SRT would like to see a huge increase in sales due to the aftermarket support, especially on the SRT-8 vehicles, then they need to allow the cars to be custom tuned.

Thanks for your time.

Tony

I'm not familiar with Corvette tuning. Is EFILive a factory tool? After reading that thread I get the impression that EFILive is not an OEM tool, but that tuning support will be forthcoming because GM has not elected to encrypt/change encryption for the new engine, so the existing toolchain will still work.

So it's not exactly factory support but at least it's not factory denial.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Hard to imagine Ralph never experienced a TT Viper in the past either in the passenger seat or drivers seat. His hands must be tied. This Gen begs for some TT love. Hopefully something gives. Until then the racers/tt heads will choose a different platform.

 

[Nine Ball]

I'm not familiar with Corvette tuning. Is EFILive a factory tool? After reading that thread I get the impression that EFILive is not an OEM tool, but that tuning support will be forthcoming because GM has not elected to encrypt/change encryption for the new engine, so the existing toolchain will still work.

So it's not exactly factory support but at least it's not factory denial.

GM has several aftermarket companies that produce tuning software for their vehicles. EFILive and HPTuners are the most popular of them. While not OEM, they utilize OEM coding and allow you to modify factory settings within the PCM. Timing, fuel maps, anything you can think of. GM didn't make the code unavailable or impossible to crack. There are GM LS-based engines out there making 1200+ rwhp on factory PCMs with custom tuning. Name any late model SRT that comes close. Without the ability to custom tune, the performance aftermarket turns its head when it comes to SRT cars. GM has a huge aftermarket parts list of their own, and sell numerous crate engines, blocks, blowers, etc..

 

[Jack B]

Did I misread that link - that is not GM releasing the code. EFI live broke the code?

GM has already released the tuning support for the upcoming 2014+ LT1 V8 trucks and C7 Corvette. Before the vehicles are even available.

http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?22637-E92-ECM-support-released

If SRT would like to see a huge increase in sales due to the aftermarket support, especially on the SRT-8 vehicles, then they need to allow the cars to be custom tuned.

Thanks for your time.

Tony

 

[ViperSmith]

Did I misread that link - that is not GM releasing the code. EFI live broke the code?

Sounds like it isn't encrypted, so it maybe isn't "permissive" but it isn't restrictive. Where, SRT is encrypted thus is restrictive.

At least that is what I take from it.

 

[jsd512]

It will never happen. You are asking a company, full of excuses, to do something the others readily make available. Chrysler will have to be bailed out again by 2020. This company is the most annoying company to ever exist.

 

[Jack B]

If you read deep into the thread, it was not easy for them, they had been working on it for a while. It appears some existing GM cars have the same or similar ECU. That thread appears to be started or controlled by EFI Live. I have a direct injection Solstice, that ECU took two years to totally figure out. That ECU was a Bosch and it was cracked in Europe before the US software guru's opened it up. I believe I read the new viper PCM has eight million lines of code. In contrast the Gen2 PCM had about 500,000 (or close).

It is all about profit and large numbers mean profit. My guess is that the half dozen companies that break these ECU's won't bother with the viper unless that same ECU is used in other CC products.

Sounds like it isn't encrypted, so it maybe isn't "permissive" but it isn't restrictive. Where, SRT is encrypted thus is restrictive.

At least that is what I take from it.

 

[ringram]

Yeah it wasnt GM it was EFILive that did the work.
Im a disty of theirs. I know how hard the guys work. They have contacts and probably got their hands on ECU's the fact that they were Delphi controllers helped as they have well over a decade of experience adding support for Delphi controllers. GM did not lock them down in any new or harder way by the looks.

IMO: Mopar should make the aftermarket mopar ECU tunable with pc software, they can even sell this for more £££. No mistaking the OEM and mopar ECU's. They can even log special DTC codes so that they fail OBD2 tests if they want to make sure they are offroad only. Big mistake not to allow aftermarket tuning for them IMO. Then again, perhaps they are happy not to sell many and keep them niche..!?

 

[Nine Ball]

Let me illustrate this a little.

Here in Houston, we have a HUGE car scene. We Texans are mostly concerned with performance and horsepower primarily. If you attend our monthly Cars & Coffee events, you'll see 800+ cars attending.

Take a walk down the rows where the GM and Ford guys are, and you'll see numerous aftermarket superchargers, twin-turbo setups, and cars over 1,000 rwhp. Numerous of them.

Take a walk down the SRT-8 and LX cars rows (a lot show up) and you'll see numerous.... LED halo headlights, 22" wheels, and vinyl graphics.

The performance guys tend to purchase GM or Ford, because they can tune the cars.

 

[chorps]

Let me illustrate this a little.

Here in Houston, we have a HUGE car scene. We Texans are mostly concerned with performance and horsepower primarily. If you attend our monthly Cars & Coffee events, you'll see 800+ cars attending.

Take a walk down the rows where the GM and Ford guys are, and you'll see numerous aftermarket superchargers, twin-turbo setups, and cars over 1,000 rwhp. Numerous of them.

Take a walk down the SRT-8 and LX cars rows (a lot show up) and you'll see numerous.... LED halo headlights, 22" wheels, and vinyl graphics.

The performance guys tend to purchase GM or Ford, because they can tune the cars.

I wonder who really has the final say on this whole PCM deal on Chrysler's side, besides Ralph and Sergio...I'm thinking that an org chart needs to be built to figure out where the road blocks are and advocate to the right people. Obviously this isn't a big enough deal to the decision makers so they aren't really seeing it like the guys on the ground are.

 

[MoparMap]

IMO: Mopar should make the aftermarket mopar ECU tunable with pc software, they can even sell this for more £££. No mistaking the OEM and mopar ECU's. They can even log special DTC codes so that they fail OBD2 tests if they want to make sure they are offroad only.

This is really what makes the most sense. You have to understand the ridiculous governmental regulations on the automotive market nowadays. The emission standards on cars are getting so tight that pulling an air filter will set off a code. If anything Dodge is probably winning the government's favor by keeping their engines more tightly controlled so they can keep selling cars at all. If they turned a blind eye and "accidentally" left their computers unlocked or something I would imagine they might get in hot water fairly quick.

Having an aftermarket plug and play tuneable PCM really seems like the A answer. They did this to some degree with their 3rd gen Hemi crate engines. They basically just slapped a Mopar sticker on an AEM ECU and sold it aftermarket for people wanting to swap the engine into an older car that only needed an engine computer. Maybe no one in the aftermarket wants to pony up and put the money and development into understanding a very odd low production engine. Add to that the fact that lots more systems are starting to get tied together (like traction control needing to modulate throttle), so you now need integration between various modules. Mopar wouldn't necessarily want to put out their own proprietary code because they don't want to give the other big names any insight into their engine management. There really aren't many systems out there to begin with that can even run an odd fire V10. To my knowledge no one has ever made a plug and play replacement PCM for any of the gens that will directly replace a factory pcm without any wiring changes. I don't really think the blame is entirely on Mopar's shoulders, the aftermarket isn't really moving either.