Stump the Chump

[EllowViper]

I like to think at this point in ownership/wrench turning over my lifetime that I have this car all figured out. But alas I'm stumped. Upon reinstalling my fresh engine, I can't get it to fire. No CELs indicating bad crank or cam position sensor even though I replaced the cam position sensor. I have good spark according to my timing light but the plugs are dry as Arizona. I have 60+PSI to the fuel rails but it appears the injectors are not functioning. Checked all the usual connection suspects. Reloaded my VEC tune. Checked grounds, battery charged, reset security system since the battery had drained during the rebuild. The injectors had been gone through by Tony Armour and checked out OK. Unless I forgot to remove some packing inside the injector body, I can't imagine they "all" would be having issues (brand new). So what am I missing? Cam was installed normally and lash set according to Greg Good specs. Cranks normally. Just no VROOOM. Been chasing this for several weeks now and am out of ideas. Next I'll remove the VEC just to see if it will fire, but it had been working just fine before. Humbly open to suggestions.

 

[Black Moon]

Did you check all your vital fuses and relays?

 

[bluesrt]

get a noid light to see if you have injector pulse-if you do the injecters are stuck do to sitting--tap on them while cranking motor over-they will break loose..

 

[bluesrt]

another note--do you have a ses light key on-engine off?

 

[BOTTLEFED]

Definitely remove the VEC from the equation. We were chasing an similar issue and swapped in another VEC and it fired right up. The VEC had just come back from Sean and was only used for less than 20mi.
A very small looseness in the power wire took it out. These things are as easy to break as egg shells.

The car will start and idle just fine after reconnecting the injector harness without the VEC, so try it and see what happens.

 

[EllowViper]

Will do Tim. As you know, its been down for six months or so ..so who knows what gremlins may have creeped in. Just frustrating.

 

[coupe]

I don't think it's the problem, but isn't 60psi+ rail pressure a bit on the high side??

 

[bluesrt]

not for all the bells n wistles he has

 

[EllowViper]

No luck with removing the VEC and solving the issue. Same song...second verse. At this point, it has to be the physical injectors since that is the only variable that has been modified. As much as I hate to pull those intake tubes yet again, I guess I'll have to do just that since I don't have a way to verify power & operation of the injectors on the motor. 30 minute job but just don't want to do it! I believe if I put 12v to the injector and compressed air on the inlet side, I should be able to feel airflow on the nozzle side. If not, they are hopelessly stuck. If they are stuck (hopefully all 10???...which I find hard to believe), I'll have to check with 1Tony1 for his recoommendation since he flowed/cleaned/etc these about 4 months ago even though they were brand new and working just fine. It was a recommeded service to verify injector flow and function. I'm about out of any other ideas at this point besides consuming childish amounts of beer.

 

[George Farris]

Make sure your alarm has been reset ...

 

[Russ M]

Fried ECU, no way will 10 injectors be bad.

 

[EllowViper]

I can get at the #1 injector without tearing the intake tubes off so I'm going to try the noid light. Any bets?

 

[EllowViper]

This just in....Noid light flashes like a firefly. And yes Russ, I am surprised as well. Like I said. Ran "fine" save for the bent rod so I do not think there was anything fundamentally wrong with the PCM or ignition system. The only variable at this point are the reworked injectors.

 

[ViperTony]

Is your gas tank empty? Sorry...I had to ask the obvious.

 

[EllowViper]

I feel my enthusiam is about empty at this point! I'll pull one bank of injectors tomorrow and see what I can discover on the bench.

 

[Russ M]

A budy of mine once had a very similar situation and ended up being all 4 injectors were stuck. The injectors were brand new RC matched and all that stuff by RC. RC admitted that sometimes if the injectors sit around for a while before being used the solution they use can cause them to "stick".

My disbelief in all 10 being borked is just based on odds, but who knows maybe.

 

[bluesrt]

ive seen it more than once-and if you lightly tap on various ones while turning over the motor,it will eventually fire,it doesnt take tapping on all of them at once..ive done this several times and have had sucess

 

[EllowViper]

Good info. I imagine Tony uses some pretty caustic cleaner during his injection service. They were packed pretty surgically with little condoms on the inlet side sealing them 100%...then they sat for 4-5 months. I'll try the tapping routine with the neighbor cranking the engine. I think tapping on the rail directly above the injector will be the best I can hope for with this design. Short of that, they are all coming out.

 

[AbsolutHank]

I'm also betting on injectors. My father and I operate a medium-duty repair shop, and when a customer brings us a used gas engine to swap in, there are almost always injector issues from sitting. I realize your injectors are brand new, but they are finnicky little ********!

 

[EllowViper]

Good news. Pulled the drivers side bank off, put 12v to them, and they were REALLY stuck. Took some banging and compressed air and all of a sudden I could feel the solenoid actuating. Used a little toggle switch to actuated the injector for verifying function. Also verified with comprssed air. Interestingly enough, these have the 4 point spray pattern and it really atomizes out of the pintle end. So 5 are done. Off to breakfast with the kids and then back at it. Whew...but what a PITA.

 

[BOTTLEFED]

good news eric
glad you may have found the problem

 

[EllowViper]

ITS ALIVE! Fired right up. So lesson learned. Verify injector functioning before installing the darned things. What a PITA frustrating experience....but all I was out was the $40.00 cam position sensor I ended up not needing. Shot a video if it on my cell but have never uploaded one before. New Nokia Nuron T-Mobile phone. Sounds good. No leaks or other issues. Need to let the solid cam break in and then re-adjust. A little noisy.