Supercharged Insurance

[LIVIPER]

I know a lot of you have supercharged your Vipers and are putting out serious horsepower.

I was just curious if you have trouble getting (or keeping) insurance. I know that my insurance renewal each year has a question that states "Have you modified the horsepower output from the vehicle's original production?" I can only imagine the premium when you check off YES, 750 RWHP.

So, how much does it jump up? Did your original carrier drop you?

Also, do you just not mention it? What about if you wreck the car (hurt someone) and they inspect the car and see the works?

Just curious.

 

[plumcrazy]

it would be hard to prove when you installed it i guess.

 

[Casey]

I was talking with my Insurance Agent this past spring to check my replacement value on my GTS, which was fair.
And I also mentioned to him that I was going to get some mods. done to the engine, and his reply was that if I want any additional coverage for Mods. to my car, then I need to bring in a receipt for the cost etc. And about my engine mods. he said, "I never asked him that question,". "He doesn't want to know anything about it!"
So I assume it's best to keep that to myself! Which means he can't have a ride in my Viper!

 

[malcoll]

Keep it to yourself..... engine modifications could possibly make your Viper ineligible for coverage with a standard carrier.....

Lance

 

[Saleen-Explorer]

Well, we used to own an Allstate office and it doesn't really matter unless you want extra specific coverage for your mods and brought in receipts as was said before. We insured Vipers though I don't know of any mods done, but a sh**load of highly modified Mustangs, Corvettes, Porsche etc, and it made no difference whether it was for example a stock 996tt or a 700hp 996tt (unless it was a speciific make such as a Ruf), or a stock fox body or one with a 347 crate engine and superhcarger etc.

If you wreck it, they honestly shouldn't care (but you never know with some companies), we never had a problem, they would just cover whatever was covered before hand, maybe even cover the supercharger and everything (probably not likely) if you show receipts as proof even if you didn't have extra coverage.

 

[malcoll]

I currently own three Nationwide offices in North Florida.... and it does matter.

Most companies have changed their policies and added language that specifically makes modified vehicles INELIGIBLE for coverage.

If I recall correctly.... in the last 24 months, Nationwide, State Farm and Allstate have refiled their auto policies in the state of Florida.

Additionally, these policies now may specifically exclude damage caused during any competitive event, including test and tune events and practice for competetive events.

My suggestion is don't take anything off the internet as gospel... READ your policy and if you do not understand what you are reading.... go have a "hypothetical" conversation with your insurance agent... that is what we are here for.

Lance

 

[JimDavis MT 97GTS 650R]

Although my car is not supercharged, Farmers Insurance dropped my Viper as soon as I declared I had modified the vehicle. Oddly enough, I was happy to learn that Progressive would insure me for the exact same coverage and at a lower rate. Good luck, if you think of ever getting your money back for non stock items. You will never know how hard it is until you have a loss claim. The market aria you insure your vehicle in will have as great a impact on your renewal as the mods. Then again, some insurers may take into consideration who did the mods, and still consider the car to be stock! :LOL:

 

[Saleen-Explorer]

Most companies have changed their policies and added language that specifically makes modified vehicles INELIGIBLE for coverage.

My mom did sell our offices a few years ago so I guess they did change some stuff? I know before that they would still cover the vehicle but not the mods, but I guess now if you were to have a supercharged Viper and they found out, you could be denied coverage? Wow, that *****, and I'm guessing it applies to other vehicles also even though Allstate didn't make a big deal of it before hand especially with Mustangs considering how many are highly modified.

I shouldn't be suprised though as I know when we were selling they were changing around some stuff that ********** my mom and grandfather along with other agents.

 

[SUN RA KAT]

My insurance agent told me in the Viper's category any modifications done will not change coverage, but I won't be covered for track events like Viper Days even though I would be covered for street racing. Even she thought the insurance company had that backwards.

 

[malcoll]

In street racing they don't know if you were street racing or just driving..... and I am sure you wouldn't say... "no maam.... I was street racing when I totalled the Viper".... so yes street racing would be covered.

Viper Days on the other hand is obviously an organized racing type of event.... your purpose is clear.... to race, or learn how to race..... or practice racing.

Either way.... if you wreck your Viper on a race track..... during a Viper Days event.... I would push it out into the parking lot and then call the claims adjuster.

 

[JimT 99RT]

Insurance companies make money by not paying claims, so I don't kid myself into thinking that modifications done to my car will be covered. You decide what level of risk you are willing to incur and make modifications based on how much personal loss you are willing stomach. I think the best any of us can hope for is to get something close to what Kelly Blue Book states is the value of the car and fight for what ever additional money might be obtained under the fair market value rule.

 

[Bandit400]

Definately interested in response to this question. I was planning to get a quote from Grundy Insurance about insuring a modified vehicle. I know they will not insure track cars but I now they insure street rods. Some of those rods have 600 or 700HP and weigh 2000lbs. I was figuring on bumping up the value to compensate a little for all of the mods. I will have to speak directly with an underwriter since the people who give you the quotes on the phone could not answer my questions. Hopefully somebody has done it successfully.

Bandit400

 

[MannyC]

I have State Farm here in California and I simply tell them how much I want my Viper insured for. For example, my Gen I has a replacement value of about $50K based on what I told them, so long as i have receipts. And they told me I am covered on the track too, since the policy doesn't exclude this specifically. They also insure my other half dozen vehicles and my house, so they take care of me.

 

[Viper Specialty]

solution: Make friends with your local collision shop...they can disguise coverage on certain components due to the RETAIL VALUE of new Viper parts is often MORE than the upgraded components. Example: I would bet that COST in a COMPLETE intake manifold with all sensors, fuel injectors, wiring, TB's...etc would be damn close to the cost of Roe SC! just as how a Stock Hood could pay for a complete body kit from an aftermarket company, or stock brakes could pay for a StopTech system.

 

[Viper Specialty]

PS- as far as them inspecting the car, chances are they wont know their A$$ from a hole in the ground... besides, even if they do, can they PROVE that the HP itself caused the damage? When they insure a car, the really insure the driver(s)...so its your fault either way.

Its one thing if your SC flys off, goes through your hood, hits a low-flying plane which then crashes into the interstate and causes a 1,627 car pile up... but, I dont think thats gonna happen. Then again, lol.

 

[plumcrazy]

true, they'd have to prove that the HP did cause any of the problems related to the accident. kinda like mfg's proving that any mods would cause premature failure to the car and voiding any warranties. which is real hard to do. but it would probably be a good fight with the insurance company

 

[malcoll]

true, they'd have to prove that the HP did cause any of the problems related to the accident. kinda like mfg's proving that any mods would cause premature failure to the car and voiding any warranties. which is real hard to do. but it would probably be a good fight with the insurance company

Actually... no they don't have to prove HP had anything to do with a claim. If the underwriting rules indicate that your MODIFIED vehicle is INELIGIBLE for coverage.... then the insurance company can void coverage back to inception..... if they really want to do that.

And as far as a claims person knowing what they are looking at.... they know. All of the standard carriers send their claims representatives to extensive schooling to learn all about cars including the engine bay, suspension, unibody structure.... etc.

Most of those Claims Representatives probably have more comprehensive knowledge about all the parts of an automobile than the folks that own the cars. And the reference manuals available to them... well lets just say that the body shops aren't going to be able to pull any "wool" over their eyes.

I spent 10 years in insurance claims, you'd be amazed at the training facilities owned by Nationwide alone...... they have a complete shop in Columbus Ohio where they could actually build a car.

In reality...... typically the CR will just handle the claim, then notify underwriting that the vehicle is ineligible for coverage... then the policy would most likely be non-renewed at the expiration....

And Superbar... verify with your agent. Most policies say that damage incurred while racing in an organized competitive event is excluded....... the gray area is driver's ed events and "test and tune" events.

Like I said. Your best bet is to have that "hypothetical" conversation with your insurance agent..... see what he/she says... and the decide how you fit into that scenario. Only you can decide how much truth to tell your agent....... and how much to "hide".

 

[garolittle]

Rates for stock yellow Vipers are always higher. Afterall, everyone knows they are faster.

 

[joe117]

Superbar,
So you are telling us that State Farm will insure cars on the track.
If this is true, there will be lots of folks interested.

Every time this subject comes up, the answer always turns out to be that there is no racing coverage.
In fact, they don't even cover you in driving school events.

One company wouldn't even cover a guy's car in the parking lot at the drags.

There was one guy in the last discussion who was in court over just this sort of thing.

I'll bet your agent was just telling you what he thought and not what the policy says.

 

[Yellow Fever]

When I made the Mistake of telling Farmers that I had a Supercharger on my C5 they dropped me as a client.

Sounds to me like Superbar has a much cooler agent than I had.

I'm with AIG now ..Great rates, but i'm hesitant to advise them of the Supercharger on my RT.

CHeers

Jeff

 

[MannyC]

I've been with State Farm for years now. Basically I called up my agent and and asked her if I hypothetically was going to track one of my cars, would it be covered on the track. She said she would look into it and call me back. About 30 mins later, she called and said she reviewed the policy and there was nothing on there that excluded coverage, but ultimately it would be up to the adjusters.

As one of the previous posters mentioned, might be best to tow your car off the track and back to your house and then call the insurance company and tell them it flew off the road as you tried to avoid something that got in your way (just don't tell them it was another viper on a race track.)

To be honest, if I wrecked my car at the track, I *probably* wouldn't run it through my insurance anyway, at least not until finding out what it would do to my rates. The increase in cost per car for me would likely be substantial and I have to multiply that over 6 vehicles. Insurance for me is in case of some huge accident where people are hurt or multiple cars are involved, which is why I carry maximum coverages.

Manny

Superbar,
So you are telling us that State Farm will insure cars on the track.
If this is true, there will be lots of folks interested.

Every time this subject comes up, the answer always turns out to be that there is no racing coverage.
In fact, they don't even cover you in driving school events.

One company wouldn't even cover a guy's car in the parking lot at the drags.

There was one guy in the last discussion who was in court over just this sort of thing.

I'll bet your agent was just telling you what he thought and not what the policy says.

 

[Yellow Fever]

While were on the Topic of Insurance..What is considered a good amount of Coverage ?



Jeff

 

[Jerry Dobson]

Lance is very knowledgeable.

I work for an insurance company. Your agent can tell you anything he wants. The only thing that matters is what the policy states. Your agent is not legal council.

If you insure a 450HP Viper and you have modified it, that is not the car they are insuring. Claims can be denied. Keeping "quiet" about mods will not help. The claims adjusters know cars. A NOS bottle or Supercharger will stand out. You might get by with a stroker kit but not much more.

It just depends on the claim. If you smack a curb, they will pay. If you run an 18wheeler off a cliff, they will attempt to find a flaw in your coverage.

What is a good amount of coverage? You will want $500k max and then add a 1 million dollar umbrella policy. Remember, if you go over your max cap, they will sue for your personal assets if you are at fault. Having an Umbrella policy is cheap insurance, less than $100/year. This will protect your car and home above standard limits.

Jerry Dobson

 

[joe117]

Manny,
I think Jerry just said what I was saying. The agent can tell you anything. What it says in the policy is the coverage you have.

I don't know if you saw the thread about this topic within the last year. It was well covered.
The bottom line was that regular insurance will not cover you if you are in any kind of competition. You are not even covered when preparing for competition.

Some companies see a driving school as prep for competition.

There were more than a few guys who said their agents had told them they were covered but in every case it turned out that they were not.

I find it hard to believe that anyone would think their car would be covered when racing.

I'm sure the talk about towing a wrecked car off the track and then claiming an accident, was just a joke. That idea came up in the other thread too. Someone pointed out that one might very well end up behind bars for a move like that.

If you press your agent, or read the policy in full, you will find that you are not covered.

 

[LIVIPER]

Am I right in saying that nobody on this board has supercharged their car and told their insurance company and retained coverage?

That answer would see to make sense. As Jerry Dobson pointed out above, premiums are assigned based on risk evaluations, loss history, etc. I don't think you could get coverage because nobody at the insurance carrier would be authorized to write coverage. In reality an actuary would need to appraise the safety and risk of a car with 200 or more horsepower than it was originally designed to run.

So now, if anyone out there is thinking about supercharging or stroking a motor, the question is not how much your premium will increase, but rather are you ready to face the possibility of bearing all the risks and liabilities of a loss on your own. Imagine spinning the car out and hitting a Mercedes waiting for a light. If your insurer disclaims coverage you may be liable for 1) the property damage to your Viper$$$, 2) property damage to another vehicle 3) medical bill for you and a passenger 4) liability claim from a passenger 5)liability claim from the other vehicle 6) legal bills and expenses to defend, etc.

It sounds to me like you are driving around in a superpowered car with a significant chance of NO COVERAGE.

Does that seem about where it's at?

I really wanted a Roe Supercharger, but I'm not sure I want the additional headache.

 

[MannyC]

Joe, I would not lie about an accident, however, you can word it in such a way that you are covered without being dishonest. For example:

"My car went off the road in the button willow area when another car swerved towards me, I over corrected and damaged my car. I had the tow truck rental company bring the car to my house."

Nothing about that is false. I just left out certain details like it was on a track and the other car was a Viper that I was racing.

Granted, I have never had to do this, so perhaps they would ask such specific questions that you could not get around them. All I know is that I had my insurance company research my policy, and they are pretty thorough. I looked at my policy before hand and saw nothing that specifically said I would not have coverage. I believe there was a mention that if I was racing on a public street, that I would not be covered, but my agent went on to ask if the track was closed to the general public, and since the answer was YES, she said the car SHOULD be covered.

Anyway, just about everything we do is illegal these days, or so it would seem. Speeding = illegal. Radar Detectors = illegal (in many places.) Running Nitrous on the streets - illegal. Etc. Hell, in California it is now illegal to WATCH a street race -- yep, if you are caught watching a street race, you are considered to be encouraging it and will get busted.

Manny,
I think Jerry just said what I was saying. The agent can tell you anything. What it says in the policy is the coverage you have.

I don't know if you saw the thread about this topic within the last year. It was well covered.
The bottom line was that regular insurance will not cover you if you are in any kind of competition. You are not even covered when preparing for competition.

Some companies see a driving school as prep for competition.

There were more than a few guys who said their agents had told them they were covered but in every case it turned out that they were not.

I find it hard to believe that anyone would think their car would be covered when racing.

I'm sure the talk about towing a wrecked car off the track and then claiming an accident, was just a joke. That idea came up in the other thread too. Someone pointed out that one might very well end up behind bars for a move like that.

If you press your agent, or read the policy in full, you will find that you are not covered.

 

[joe117]

Manny,
I didn't think you would really commit insurance fraud. This is just a sort of a "what if" discussion.

What it comes down to, seems to me, the famous know it all, that you would claim damage that was not covered by submitting an incomplete report of the circumstances in an attempt to get money you were not entitled to.

The incomplete nature of the claim and the intent to defraud would be enough to make the offense. You need not tell a lie in order to commit this crime.

The know it all in me says this is fraud. In the case of fraud, the company would not just refuse to pay the claim. They would file a criminal complaint against you in much the same way that any crime victim would.

I'm seeing a perp walk. ;-)

 

[joe117]

Now, about your car being covered on the track. I'm thinking your car may be covered on a closed track. There are some companies that do still cover driving school, non timed events.

However, if you mean racing,
I'm so sure that you are not covered that I will bet a crisp new $5 bill that I am correct in saying that your policy will not cover you racing on a track in a timed event with other cars on the track in direct, wheel to wheel competition. In other words, what most people would call a race.

I don't know exactly how to settle this bet but my wife has State Farm covering her car. Perhaps I could find the "no race" clause in her policy.

 

[malcoll]

Manny,
If I were you... I would have your insurance agent put in writing... on his and/or StateFarm letterhead that your Viper IS covered when on the track and being raced.

Take that letter... and put it in your Safe Deposit Box. Then when the claims adjuster denies your claim... call your insurance agent and file your damages under his Errors & Omissions coverage (basically the malpractice insurance of an insurance agent).

I have been in the insurance business for 15 years, in both claims handling, claims management, Home Office management and sales. The Standard Carriers (ie StateFarm, Nationwide, Allstate, Progressive, GEICO) do not cover damage caused while on a race track (of any kind) while racing. Even more so for a competetive timed event.

Driver's Ed and "Test & Tune" events ARE a gray area. I recently had an insured with a 1998 Camaro... he had modified it AFTER we wrote the coverage. It caught fire at a "test and tune" event at Orlando Dragway.......

Bottom line was that since it was "test and tune" (ie NOT a competetive event)... the claims department went ahead and covered the damage...... but since the vehicle was modified..... the vehicle had to be removed from the auto policy.

You should be able to trust your insurance agent, but if he/she is telling you that racing on a track is covered.... get it in writing and go racing!

Good Luck,
Lance

 

[ViperRay]

After reading my policy from Progressive, there is a section on "custom parts or equipment" where it says in essence that you are covered if you specifically purchased coverage for these parts or equipment. Now, in my opinion, if it can be proved that any of these "custom parts or equipment" was/were responsible for the claim and the company was not informed about them, then I think your coverage (including liability)is in jeopardy.
My policy also expressly does not cover any form of racing.

I think MOST of us realize that when we track our car, we're on our own if we damage or wreck the car. I also believe that we are not held liable for damage or injuries to anyone else on the track in this event. I do worry though about liability coverage for performance upgrades should an accident occur on the street and speed is involved. How much of a performance upgrade would be considered a risk to the enforcement of the policy? A s/c or TT for sure; stroker? heads/cam? intake/exhaust? Surely not my smoothies!

My policy does allow arbitration in the case of a disagreement between me and my company.

Just my $.02.