Team Viper Deserves a standing ovation !

[Frank Parise]

The 2003 convertible goes so far beyond any reasonable expectations for an American sports car that I can't believe some of the comments I am reading. To pass judgment on the car by looking at a photograph is premature. I've spoken to individuals present at the unveiling in Detroit. They said the car is absolutely spectacular in person. I found the GTS-R concept car to be far more spectacular in person than I did in photographs.

Team Viper has addressed nearly every weakness in the Gen 2 car, plus they made improvements in areas that didn't even call for improvement, especially power!

This car is shaped the way it is to reduce aerodynamic drag. Many of you don't realize that the .35 drag coefficient of the GTS is way below average. The .45 drag coefficient of the current RT/10 (with hardtop on) makes it an aerodynamic pig. Don't be offended...I own a 99 RT/10 also. In fact, the Dodge Ram Pick Up is more slippery than the RT/10. What this means is that whether you have a Gen 1 or a Gen 2 car and whether it is a roadster or a coupe, the shape of the car alone consumes enormous horsepower just to push it through the air. All other things being equal, the new convertible will accelerate faster and achieve higher top speed because of these aerodynamic improvements.

I am confident that both the exterior and interior styling of this car will result in a bigger "wow" on the streets than any of the current Vipers. Trust me!

 

[Frank Parise]

Let's talk about brakes!! Many of you may not realize how weak the brake system on your current Viper is relative to the competition. Were you ever to put your car on a track and do repeated stops from 140 MPH to 60 MPH during a lapping session, your attention would quickly turn from the awesome accelerating power of the car to "Oh my God, how do I get this thing slowed down?!" All the Porsche, BMW, Ferrari and NSX drivers carry these huge s--- eating grins on their face as they follow you into the braking zones. This is where they always pass you.

A legendary sports car must offer more than good looks and straight-line acceleration. It must have a successful racing heritage, ala Porsche, Ferrari, etc. The production Viper was never complete with its current braking system.

Now, Team Viper has apparently added serious brakes on the most powerful production sports car in the world. we will have 4-piston Brembos (ala Porsche) on both front and rear. Rotors will increase in size from less than 13" to 14". Add the ABS and I guarantee you there won't be another car in production trim anywhere that can outperform the new Viper on the track.

 

[Frank Parise]

Let's talk about handling. The new Viper has features that aren't visible in a photograph.

It is my understanding that the new convertible chassis has even more torsional rigidity than the current GTS. I'm no engineer, but I'd say this comes close to a miracle for a production sports car. So what does this mean??

When you dive your car into a turn, the frame doesn't twist as much, resulting in better cornering ability at higher speed. The center of gravity appears to have been lowered meaningfully. This means less weight transfer will take place under braking and cornering. Translated, this means reduced lap times!

Too bad they didn't show the underbelly of the car. It just may be covered to produce less turbulent air flow underneath the car and less lift or more downforce. Translated, this means better high speed stability and cornering.

There's much more to this car than meets the eye.

In fact, it will probably dissappoint many of the after-market vendors because there will be precious-little you can do to make meaningful improvments to this car!

 

[Frank Parise]

For cryin' out loud. Wasn't 8.0 liters big enough? Wasn't 460 HP and 490 foot pounds of torque excessive. Consider where all the competition is at!

Well, now we have to settle for over 500 cubic inches, over 500 HP and over 500 pounds of torque. Corvette is still trying to make it into the 400 club.

Team Viper didn't have to do this to sell new cars. Thank God they have the courage to continually turn the sports car world upside down.

How envious and fearful do you think the bowtie crowd is about the new 2003 Viper? The Porsche guys don't have a chance with our enhanced braking and even more power. By the way, did I mention the fact that the new car even weighs less than the GTS?

It's a no-brainer!

 

[Frank Parise]

Did anybody notice the enlarged front grille area? This means cooler water temps and more sustainable power in the heat of battle.

Does anyone care for a beefed up tranny and differential? It's already been handled.

Does anyone think the current RT/10 looks good with the soft top up? Yeah, right. The 2003 convertible apparently looks great.

Why isn't anybody applauding the return of side exhausts?

 

[Marv S]

Ok, Frank, come clean... What kind of cooling do you have on your keyboard to keep it from overheating?

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<FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Marv S on January 10, 2001 at 16:59</font>

 

[Greg 99ACR Red and Silver]

As usual, new designs take awhile to sink in. The photos look pretty cool. I look forward to seeing alot more information.

 

[Hans Christian]

Frank, you are spot on !!!

HUGE APPLAUDS FROM ME - CANT WAIT TILL I GET MINE

I' am on the Woodhouse top 20 list as number 12 or 14 depending on color scheme release.

What will be the price for this animal - Jon B any guesstimates

Hans Christian

 

[Frank 03SRT]

This is Frank. And thank you Frank. Thanks for being so Frank. I agree totally. AND I am number 19 on the Woodhouse roll call, AND I CAN'T WAIT!!!

 

[JonB]

Frank P, what do you REALLY think? ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ : &lt;~~

Viper Old timers will remember the CarMag words "cartoonish" and "brutish" and "bad airplane trying to be a good car, and failing." But in the process, this cartoonish, aero-challenged brute, THE VIPER, was on sixty-leventeen carmag covers, and then Hennessey gave them 5-10 more in aftermarket! And Dodge sold every bloomin' one with never a $1 rebate, and could have sold MORE.....and 37%+ of us bought ANOTHER Dodge as a result. (I bought 4 more.)

In 1989, Bob Eaton first said,(and Lutz oft-quoted him) "If this does not get your heart racing, check your pulse...you must be dead." What gets Frank Parise's pulse RACING, and mine, and many others here...is "Racing Car Performance" coupled w/ great looks. Others here want OUTRAGEOUS good looks, and performance is somewhat secondary. Re-read Frank's enthused comments: All are performance based!

Just when I have gotten half-way thru sorting and filing all my mags, now I gotta start another collection.....because the corvette et-al is already **-Hum. Cover car Indeed.

Viva Viper ! Viva Team Viper!! Viva VCA !!!

JonB~~~:&lt;~

ps..wait til ya see the Next-Gen RAM !!!
pps...2003 Viper pricing is not announced, or even hinted at.
Hints will emerge very soon !

 

[Joseph Houss]

OK Jon, You've done it again...the first delivered GTS...and now THIS! The first GEN3 avatar!

I'll get you one of these days! LOL

 

[Mike Brunton]

Frank,

You're missing the point. Nobody ever said they don't LOVE the specs on the car - ALTHOUGH - I would have liked to see it even LIGHTER. The Corvette Z06 is still over 200lbs lighter than this car, and there are many other sports cars that are a lot lighter.

As for the aerodynamics... well, when has the RT EVER been any kind of a racer? Who really cares about the aerodynamics? They matter over - what - 100mph (I mean REALLY matter). So who would care about the minute benefits you get from the aerodynamics of the car? I care more about the styling than the aero's.

I agree that the fact that it's more rigid, has better brakes, weights less, and has more power/torque is outstanding - and kudos to Team Viper for that. They just completely missed the mark on the styling aspect.

 

[Tenney]

I've never been a huge Porsche fan (owned one once), but the upcoming GT-2 Turbo is gonna be a savage. Rear-wheel drive, 456 hp/457 lb.ft, 3175 lbs., Ceramic composite brakes w/6 piston monobloc fixed calipers in front and 4-piston in back.

Bring on the coupe.

 

[C O D Y]

It was not necessary to talk me in to loving the classic viper. Why do you feel the need to convince me to like the Gen III. It is obviously not the same car. You keep pushing the specs? No one is questioning the specs! All of the concerns I'm hearing have to do with the plain aerodynamic looks. Last time I checked I'm not married to Dodge. I love all cars that look great and perform great. One without the other doesn't do anything for me. I know some of you love the new look, but I don't and that's my opinion.

With 37%+ of us buying another dodge, you would think dodge cared what we thought? Wasn't all the people who sent in letters and money after seeing the first viper that helped make the decision to build it? Wouldn't have been wise to ask the current owners (the ones who already put their money where there mouth is by buying the first one) for their opinion? It would appear that they would be the same type of owner that would be targeted to buy the Gen III.

Don't get all bent out of shape over it. Anyone buying the new viper will love it! It will continue to bring new enthusiasts and true car lovers into our club. Which is good for everyone. It should out perform the classic in all categories, except you won't get the movie star like looks that the Gen I & II's get.

One of the reasons I like the viper is because I don't see one on every corner (something different). So I like the fact that it is a completely different looking car. It's just not for me. I hope they keep it competitively price so that the average car enthusiast can afford it.

 

[Ron Weickart]

Random thoughts and questions,

The "505 Viper" with 500 hp at the flywheel and race weight of 3400 lbs would suggets a quarter mile time solidly in the elevens, say 11.6-11.7!

I am not put out by the styling of the new Viper, I like it (I like the original '89 show car much better though).

Overall however Chrysler is losing its styling leadership. The "Super 8 Hemi" and the "Crossfire" do not live up the Gale-era "Atlantic", "Chronos", "Phaeton", or even the "Charger" etc...

Big, bigger, biggest... Glad to see 0ver 500 cubes, finally a modern era production engine larger than the '70-up Eldorado mill...

How will the 8.3 liter fit in class in FIA/ALMS etc. racing?

I assume this "Gen III" motor is the "Gen II" motor, bored and/or stroked?

When will a crate motor of the new bigger improved V-10 be available?

What about nomenclature? Gen Two car with a Gen Three motor, and a Gen One style coupe with a Gen Two motor, could start to get confusing.
Should we divide Vipers into two flavors, the 488 Viper, and the 505 Viper? With 488 roadsters, 488 coupes, and 505 convertibles... ? Or 488 Viper; series 1 (92-95 RT/10), series 1 1/2 (96 RT/10), series 2 (96-01 GTS, 97-01 RT/10), 505 Viper; series 1 (04 RT/10?) etc...

Will the next generation Ram use a new V-10 based on the new "hemi" v-8? Are there real plans for a new samller, higher reving "more efficient" V-10 to be built. Will this mill find its way into the Viper? Is this "supersized" 488 based 505 Viper motor just an interim "solution"?

Of course the big question is how much for this next Viper, and will this car DEFINITELY see production?

 

[Wing King]

I've now decided that Frank Parise is DEAD ON with his comments. Thanks, Frank, for helping me crystalize all the comments over the last several days, into a few simple thoughts.

First, as ultra passionate and protective owners of our beloved current snakes, it's obvious that the majority have been "disappointed" with the new body style. I think that's totally understandable. Isn't it rather dumb of us to really believe, or EXPECT, that Dodge could have improved upon what was, essentially, ALREADY perfection?? For me, no car has ever struck me so beautiful as first the roadster, and then the GTS. And I know it's NOT just me. If I had a buck for every time a stranger has come up to me at a car show and said, "My god, that's the most beautiful car I've ever seen in my life", I could probably retire. These opinions have come from people who aren't necessarily even "car nuts". So, aren't we expecting something out of the new car's looks that's just a tad bit "unrealistic"??

But, as Frank has pointed out SO WELL, take a hard look at what they've done to the "engineering" side of this new car. I've decided it's simply AWESOME. We are now being given the TOTAL package! This NEW car, from a performance standpoint, NOW will give us everything the old one "looked" like it should, but never really was quite able to deliver. Wow! More power, lighter weight, HUGELY better brakes, better aerodynamics, more practical servicability, better drivabilty..... and it just keeps on screaming "total package"!!!!!

So, too bad we never had all this new engineering with the old car, but, in fact, that stunning body style just did not allow for some of what the new car has. I know our current culture seems to be based upon having BOTH our "cake" and "ice cream", but reality is still reality. Thanks SVE, or Team Viper, and Jim Julow, and everyone else who has put this new generation together. Don't get discouraged by the responses you may have seen so far. Give it a while.

As for me, I'm lucky enough to hold the number "1" position for the new car at my ordering dealership, even ahead of the dealer principal, for a clean "Invoice+" deal. I still consider my situation to be "life is really good", and would not even THINK of changing my mind.

No, it's probably NOT going to stop traffic like the current one (which I will also keep, of course), but I can live with that in exchange for having a REAL and more "user friendly" convertible, while running circles, performance wise, around the older generations. Fang, just treat your heavier, weaker, little brother Pete, kindly!

My "way more than 2 cents"

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[Frank 03SRT]

Don't forget, Dodge leadership --- the vote poll is running 77% love it, 4% hate it. Whether this is current owners or everyone, who cares? Fact is, most people love it, and isn't that what a business should satisfy? You all want Dodge to go broke by catering to the minority? BUT, I too believe the current model look is perfect (meaning better looking than the 03), and it's tough to make it better. The new model side scoop looks less pronounced probably because they had to find a place for dead pedal. They may have been able to raise the rear fender **** more to make the looks better, but maybe at the sacrifice of aerodymanics. It may not be too late for Dodge to change the design slightly. But, I think it is still great looking and much better technically. Can't wait!

 

[Mike H]

I think the 2003 is moving up the Euro ladder to mainstream thoughts of now being a true "exotic'...I think the car has a awesome potential to move vipers up that ladder...My only thoughts as the car has one flaw...I like the triple 500...500 hp/ torque/ and Cubes. BUT i would have preferred the car to be a QUAD 500...500 hp, torque, cubes , and 500 LBS LESS IN WEIGHT&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;PLEASE!!!

 

[Mike Brunton]

The "appease your market and then cross sell" angle is all very well, but how many people who say they "love it" are actually gonna buy one?

Not to sound rude, but I bet most of those poll-takers are under driving age - just my experience from online automotive sites.

If the new Viper performs better, that will do a lot for Dodge's image, BUT, the look is really what made the Viper what it is now. Everyone drools over it... I had an 80 year old lady going into the hospital force her husband to turn her wheelchair around and follow me because she wanted to know what it was. She said she never saw something so beautiful. I smiled and said "It's a Dodge". She was astounded.

EVERYONE loves the look of the car - that's why it's such an icon for Dodge. The new GenIII Viper may stir awe in the hearts of performance car guys, but it's going to lose a lot of what it's got in the hearts of the rest of the population.

I hate to sound like I'm whining - the specs are great, but I just wish the look was different.

JonB, any chance the next gen GTS would have a significantly different body? What I mean is maybe they would leave the RT/10 like this, and make the new GTS more like (as in almost identical to) the Concept GTS/R? From what I know, the current RT/10 and GTS share less body panels than you'd think, so maybe it would be possible to have 2 different looking cars.

 

[JonB]

-This car (Gen-III) will definitely see production.
-Production top is as you see....manual, like Prowler.
-Sidepipes are REAL and will see production.
-pricing is "in the current ballpark"
-Motors will be built at CAAP
-Best of all(after 500X3)-- It indeed has a Dead Pedal !

Cody is right: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and anyone who buys one will love it. Gen-1 photos made me crazy, but if NO Viper existed to-date, this GEN-III would do the same! But you always loive your first! Perhaps the car is NOT necessarily aimed at current Viper owners.....Maybe thats why everyone calls it the Next Generation?