The current and future state of Viper sales and technology

[sunsalem]

I still believe in my heart that the issue is pricing...But the answer isn't to take short cuts or come with a cheap plastic interior to lower production costs. The Viper is and will always be Dodge's Halo vehicle....So why destroy an icon by cheapening it by the use of substandard parts. The cheap plastic dashboard was one the of the biggest complainants with Gen. III & IV owners..,, so why go back to that?!?...

Only reason would be is to reduce costs and get the price down a bit.

The solution is....create an 8 Cylinder Viper!!! This would lower the MSRP of the vehicle to around 90k making it more competitive with Z06 and GTR clients. And you avoid destroying the lineage buy cheapening the interior with plastic parts. The beautiful thing about having an 8 Cylinder model, is that it allows for creativity. It can be designed as more of a daily driver and you can offer an automatic transmission and AWD as an option. An SRT-8 Viper can still be modified to produce at least 500 horsepower making it a creditable threat on the streets. The 10 Cylinder models can still be produced for traditional Viper lovers and Track enthusiasts....I guarantee you that having an 8 cylinder model would turn a profit without destroying the lineage and would also make the Viper affordable to many new prospective buyers...

The Z06 and GTR would smoke the 6.4L NA motor (which is fully capable of 500 hp).

Using the off-the-shelf 6.4L would put it in the Stingray's class in terms of power/speed.
FWIW and IMO, many Vette fans would be very tempted.

I'm confused. Cheap plastic interior "IS" the Vipers lineage. The G5 broke from that lineage. So going back to cheap interior "would" be in harmony with the Vipers lineage.

Good point.

It seems to me that there are only two options for Fiat:

Leave the Viper the way it is, which will end in the death of the program OR release some real R&D money into the program and let the car become a real threat to Porsche since this was obviously one of the corporate goals with the G5.

Ferrari doesn't need to stoop down to compete with Porsche so let the Viper do that by giving it a real chance at that demographic. If the SRT did so much with such comparatively little money why not give Ralph and company a real chance at Porsche Sergio?

I don't see how the traditional Porsche buyer would have an interest in the Viper.
The 2 cars couldn't be more dissimilar....so too are the guys who typically buy one or the other.

I don't see how the Viper is really competing in that segment.

 

[sunsalem]

I think if they would have just come out with the TA (but not call it a TA) but in any color and got rid of the base model and GTS maybe they would have been okay. One kick ass model, somewhat reasonably priced if you could negotiate near $105k new and new gearing that would allow it to run 10's on stock tires and still perform well on a track. Maybe this would have helped things for a few years until they could make the argument to invest in a DCT set-up for those that want that. All I know is that in its current configuration it is all but dead and it will be a hard case to try and convince the higher ups to invest any more money in the car based on a hunch that if they did make some changes it would sell.

Absolutely right on.

I found it interesting that pretty much every review of the TA was singing its praises and saying that "this is what the Gen 5 should have been from day 1".

Motor Trend had a big write-up about the TA....even claiming it was "the car we forced SRT to build" (at least some truth to that).

For the most part I didn't really think the TA was all that different. I'm pretty sure most of the changes are in the suspension setup, not really anything else. I know there is some aero on it, but it's not really "race car" aero like the ACR was. It really doesn't seem like the two models should have had such a widely different opinion in reviews to me, but then again I guess I haven't driven them all to know.

The big test was originally between the ZR1 and a GTS at Laguna Seca with Randy Pobst driving. http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1212_2013_chevrolet_corvette_zr1_srt_viper_gts/

Pobst was very critical of the Viper.
IIRC, he was especially critical of the rear end of the car dancing around under braking.

Anyway, here is a link to MT's TA articles:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1401_2014_srt_viper_ta_track_drive/

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1303_2014_srt_viper_ta/

I see five of them on Tomball's site and that's just one dealer.

For some reason, a myth has propagated about TAs flying off dealer lots.

 

[patgilm]

I found it interesting that pretty much every review of the TA was singing its praises and saying that "this is what the Gen 5 should have been from day 1". For the most part I didn't really think the TA was all that different. I'm pretty sure most of the changes are in the suspension setup, not really anything else. I know there is some aero on it, but it's not really "race car" aero like the ACR was. It really doesn't seem like the two models should have had such a widely different opinion in reviews to me, but then again I guess I haven't driven them all to know.

All three are not that much different but by having just one model without the significantly high price tag of the GTS and with the good reviews it has gotten, it might have psychologically worked out better for potential buyers. Who knows, it didn't happen that way so no idea if that would have worked.

 

[05Commemorative]

Exactly, now we have some facts. put Aero and track alignment on the GTS and no telling how close they are.

Now add in the fact of the only cars you can buy new today in the same price range are the Gen5's (all versions) and GTR, of which neither are selling well. performance and Price is not the problem for this price segment, but maybe no buyers in the 90-105k range care. The new Z06 will help answer this as it will be in the 90s. Then you will say 75% order auto's and 40% get conv. Then it will be obvious the missing link. No auto and no conv.

This-- the TA is .6 seconds faster around Laguna Seca with it's Aero advantage. The GTS is also a monster, yet people don't seem to appreciate it.

1.	SRT Viper TA	1:33.62	139	'13	649 / 1520	Randy Probst
2.	Chevrolet Corvette ZR1	1:33.70	138	'08	647 / 1530	Randy Pobst
3.	Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR	1:33.92	138	'08	608 / 1536	Chris Winkler
4.	SRT Viper GTS	1:34.23	138	'13	649 / 1560	Randy Probst
5.	Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Z07 Package	1:34.43	137	'11	512 / 1394
6.	McLaren MP4-12C	1:34.50	137	'10	600 / 1434	Randy Pobst
7.	SRT Viper	1:34.63	137	'13	659 / 1520	Randy Probst
8.	Mercedes SLS AMG Black Series	1:35.03	136	'13	631 / 1550	Randy Pobst
9.	Devon GTX	1:35.08	136	0	659 / 0
10.	Lamborghini Aventador LP700-4	1:35.40	136	'11	700 / 1575	Randy Pobst
11.	Porsche 911 GT2 RS	1:35.56	136	'10	620 / 1370	Johannes van Overbee
12.	Chevrolet Corvette ZR1	1:35.80	135	'08	647 / 1530	Randy Pobst
13.	Ferrari 458 Italia	1:36.22	135	'09	570 / 1485	Randy Pobst
14.	Nissan GT-R	1:36.30	135	'12	550 / 1736	Randy Pobst
15.	Nissan GT-R	1:36.35	135	'11	530 / 1736
16.	Lexus LFA	1:36.39	135	'10	560 / 1609
17.	Audi R8 GT	1:36.39	135	'10	560 / 1520
18.	Nissan GT-R	1:36.63	134	'12	550 / 1736	Randy Pobst
19.	Porsche 911 GT3 RS	1:36.77	134	'10	450 / 1400
20.	Porsche 911 Turbo	1:37.80	133	'09	500 / 1570
21.	Ferrari F12 Berlinetta	1:38.04	132	'12	740 / 1725	Randy Pobst
22.	Chevrolet Corvette Stingray	1:38.28	132	'14	461 / 1577	Randy Pobst

 

[kratedisease]

You goofballs ( NOT personally attacking or name calling anyone INDIVIDUALLY but using " goofballs" as a broad categorization for ALL THOSE who post negative comments about the gen5 ) need to realize that you can debate back an forth about the gen5 Viper but you goofballs need to realize that the Viper NEARLY ALMOST outsells the Audi R8.

So.... Knowing that the Audi R8 has a DCT/ paddle available, and is priced near the Viper GTS, and is offered in convertible form, and is made by a luxury brand, and has incredible performance, and makes 8 and 12 cylinder versions ( for those goofballs who think a V8 lower performance Viper will help sales ) and dealers allow test drives very day, and yet the viper almost outsells it.

Source of info

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2013/08/usa-vehicle-sales-rankings-by-model-july-2013-ytd.html

Whaz ups wit dat ?

 

[Free2go]

Team Viper needs to hook up with Kenne Bell.

 

[SnakeBitten]

I don't see how the traditional Porsche buyer would have an interest in the Viper.
The 2 cars couldn't be more dissimilar....so too are the guys who typically buy one or the other.

I don't see how the Viper is really competing in that segment.

My argument is from the standpoint that Fiat/Dodge/SRT really took it there and actually tried to compete with that crowd and it failed. So if they truly want to compete as they say they do then spend the money. If not then they need to figure out what a lot of us did way back before launch. Viper is not a Porsche.

I know my arguments tend to assume they still are after that crowd as we see no evidence they are not still expecting that.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Its not head to head but interesting stat that race car driver to race car driver none of the hipo Porsches are within a second of the GTS much less the TA

This-- the TA is .6 seconds faster around Laguna Seca with it's Aero advantage. The GTS is also a monster, yet people don't seem to appreciate it.

1.	SRT Viper TA	1:33.62	139	'13	649 / 1520	Randy Probst
2.	Chevrolet Corvette ZR1	1:33.70	138	'08	647 / 1530	Randy Pobst
3.	Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR	1:33.92	138	'08	608 / 1536	Chris Winkler
4.	SRT Viper GTS	1:34.23	138	'13	649 / 1560	Randy Probst
5.	Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Z07 Package	1:34.43	137	'11	512 / 1394
6.	McLaren MP4-12C	1:34.50	137	'10	600 / 1434	Randy Pobst
7.	SRT Viper	1:34.63	137	'13	659 / 1520	Randy Probst
8.	Mercedes SLS AMG Black Series	1:35.03	136	'13	631 / 1550	Randy Pobst
9.	Devon GTX	1:35.08	136	0	659 / 0
10.	Lamborghini Aventador LP700-4	1:35.40	136	'11	700 / 1575	Randy Pobst
11.	Porsche 911 GT2 RS	1:35.56	136	'10	620 / 1370	Johannes van Overbee
12.	Chevrolet Corvette ZR1	1:35.80	135	'08	647 / 1530	Randy Pobst
13.	Ferrari 458 Italia	1:36.22	135	'09	570 / 1485	Randy Pobst
14.	Nissan GT-R	1:36.30	135	'12	550 / 1736	Randy Pobst
15.	Nissan GT-R	1:36.35	135	'11	530 / 1736
16.	Lexus LFA	1:36.39	135	'10	560 / 1609
17.	Audi R8 GT	1:36.39	135	'10	560 / 1520
18.	Nissan GT-R	1:36.63	134	'12	550 / 1736	Randy Pobst
19.	Porsche 911 GT3 RS	1:36.77	134	'10	450 / 1400
20.	Porsche 911 Turbo	1:37.80	133	'09	500 / 1570
21.	Ferrari F12 Berlinetta	1:38.04	132	'12	740 / 1725	Randy Pobst
22.	Chevrolet Corvette Stingray	1:38.28	132	'14	461 / 1577	Randy Pobst

 

[MoparMap]

Also interesting the GTS is faster than the SRT. That seems like it should have also been the other way around based on what the cars were supposed to be aimed at (GTS for a GT style car, SRT for more barebones race).

 

[MoparMap]

All three are not that much different but by having just one model without the significantly high price tag of the GTS and with the good reviews it has gotten, it might have psychologically worked out better for potential buyers. Who knows, it didn't happen that way so no idea if that would have worked.

That's entirely fair. First impressions typically make the biggest impact. I never liked the options "package" idea for any car. I don't want to have to buy everything just to get either a better radio/sunroof/multiple suspension modes/etc. For a car that I would assume was intended with a small production run anyway, it seems like it would make more sense to do an ala carte style option offering. For instance, I really like the Sidewinder 2 wheels, but you had to order the track pack to get them (at least initially I recall). But what if I want a plush leather interior and just like the look of the wheels as opposed to the fact that they're lightweight? I'm not saying Dodge needs to bend to my every whim and offer options not on the list, just that you should be able to pick whatever is on the list without having to take everything else with it. That could help keep prices managable too for someone who wants some of the improvements, but can't foot the bill for the whole setup.

 

[Jog]

" The Z06 and GTR would smoke the 6.4L NA motor (which is fully capable of 500 hp). "

The purpose of the SRT-8 Viper wouldn't be to smoke the Z06 and GTR...It's purpose would be to only service as an competitively priced option ( it would be nice if it could smoke both cars ) but that wouldn't be the purpose of it's existence...

If you wanna smoke GTR's and Z06's...That's what the TA is for...

 

[05Commemorative]

actually, that was never really the stated goal for the cars. The SRT was always meant to be the less expensive car for the prior traditional Viper buyers. They never said the GTS was a GT car and in fact always said the 2mode suspension was a better performance suspension. Simple fact was one car was less expensive than the other and that impacted luxury items and performance by a little bit. That is why the track pack not being avail on the SRT for 2014 makes some degree of sense, again to keep costs down. Now put the aero, track pack and track alignment on both and they both improve even more. So, perf is not the big differentiator between the models, just features.

Also interesting the GTS is faster than the SRT. That seems like it should have also been the other way around based on what the cars were supposed to be aimed at (GTS for a GT style car, SRT for more barebones race).

 

[sunsalem]

" The Z06 and GTR would smoke the 6.4L NA motor (which is fully capable of 500 hp). "

The purpose of the SRT-8 Viper wouldn't be to smoke the Z06 and GTR...It's purpose would be to only service as an competitively priced option ( it would be nice if it could smoke both cars ) but that wouldn't be the purpose of it's existence...

Agreed.
It should be aimed at the Stingray.

If you wanna smoke GTR's and Z06's...That's what the TA is for...

True.

 

[05Commemorative]

why would you aim your target at the Stingray? The Viper is not meant to be a corvette competitor, particularly with the base model. why would a handbuilt car be targeted at that. You would then create the problem the vette has, and that being the hi-end models don't feel hi-end because they share so much with the base model. Why would you suggest that be done for the Viper?

Maybe the question is what problem are you trying to solve? Are you trying to sell 1000, 1500 or 10,000 cars a year?

solutions/ideas and strategies change dramatically based upon the answer to that.

 

[sunsalem]

why would you aim your target at the Stingray?

A 70k Viper would be near enough in price to the Z51 to be on the table for the many thousands of Vette shoppers.

The Viper is not meant to be a corvette competitor, particularly with the base model.

IMO, that's part of the Viper's problem.

why would a handbuilt car be targeted at that.

It couldn't and shouldn't.
This is where "handbuilt" cars have their drawbacks.
I have yet to hear anyone say the biggest reason for buying a Viper is because it is "handbuilt."

You would then create the problem the vette has, and that being the hi-end models don't feel hi-end because they share so much with the base model.

I'm not sure that is a problem.
You could say the same thing about BMW's M, Audi's RS, and MB's AMG series.

Why would you suggest that be done for the Viper?
Maybe the question is what problem are you trying to solve?

To remedy Viper sales of 47 last month.

Are you trying to sell 1000, 1500 or 10,000 cars a year?

solutions/ideas and strategies change dramatically based upon the answer to that.

Whatever number it takes to keep Sergio from dropping the axe.

 

[05Commemorative]

And your last answer I think calls out the disconnect. Until you know what you want to grow to, it throws many things off. Your suggestions all lead to wanting to be a corvette competitor in sales #'s (20-30k cars a year) and that clearly is NOT the goal of the Viper and never has been. My understanding is they want 100 cars a month which is 1200 a year. If that is the goal, you would never do the things you are suggesting.

So, maybe frame the discussion on what you would do if you wanted to sell 1200 Vipers a year.

 

[Ray W]

Don't you think 2 years is long enough to beat this horse ?

It's not all that was expected, but it's more than ever before.
It was priced too high to start, but it now can be had for 2010 prices.
They haven't built an ACR , but you can get a T/A that will match one or better.
They didn't build a convertible and they probably won't, get one from Prefix.
PCM is locked. Maybe it will be cracked. In the meantime Dodge has really never supported aftermarket parts for the Viper.
Waiting for a 2015 ? Why ? No more hp and certainly not going to be cheaper.
Probably won't be that many once the hold over parts are used up.

So, respectfully. Either buy one or give this fanasty that Dodge is listening up. For now I think it is over.

 

[Free2go]

For now I think it is over.

Let's say we DO shut up and forget about it....then what will Sunsalem do?

 

[sunsalem]

Let's say we DO shut up and forget about it....then what will Sunsalem do?

LOL...yeah, you might have noticed I don't give up easily.

 

[MoparMap]

It couldn't and shouldn't.
This is where "handbuilt" cars have their drawbacks.
I have yet to hear anyone say the biggest reason for buying a Viper is because it is "handbuilt."

I don't think it's the fact it's handbuilt that people appreciate, it's that it's an exclusive low volume car. Cars like those just tend to be built by hand because tooling up a factory to only build 1500 cars a year isn't really financially practical most of the time.

 

[sunsalem]

I don't think it's the fact it's handbuilt that people appreciate, it's that it's an exclusive low volume car. Cars like those just tend to be built by hand because tooling up a factory to only build 1500 cars a year isn't really financially practical most of the time.

I think you are right on the money.

 

[bushido]

Don't you think 2 years is long enough to beat this horse ?

It's not all that was expected, but it's more than ever before.
It was priced too high to start, but it now can be had for 2010 prices.
They haven't built an ACR , but you can get a T/A that will match one or better.
They didn't build a convertible and they probably won't, get one from Prefix.
PCM is locked. Maybe it will be cracked. In the meantime Dodge has really never supported aftermarket parts for the Viper.
Waiting for a 2015 ? Why ? No more hp and certainly not going to be cheaper.
Probably won't be that many once the hold over parts are used up.

So, respectfully. Either buy one or give this fanasty that Dodge is listening up. For now I think it is over.

2016 is going to be the magical year..

 

[FLL-B/W-GTS]

Magical Year ,ya as their will be no new Vipers in 16.Why would any car company make a 100,000.00 plus car that does not sell on today's market.Look at Cars.com,hundreds at give away prices,just sitting roped off with the dealer thinking,I am going to lose my axxx when I have to get rid of this car.Put a DCT and add Wow HP(Hellfire) and they will sell all they can make.If not,just the the Viper Master said(RW),it is over....

 

[sunsalem]

Magical Year ,ya as their will be no new Vipers in 16.Why would any car company make a 100,000.00 plus car that does not sell on today's market.Look at Cars.com,hundreds at give away prices,just sitting roped off with the dealer thinking,I am going to lose my axxx when I have to get rid of this car.Put a DCT and add Wow HP(Hellfire) and they will sell all they can make.If not,just the the Viper Master said(RW),it is over....

No Change = No Car

 

[Nsane1]

I think these comments are all spot on, I agree with Ray W wholeheartedly.

FLL, I just went to Cars.com, over 600 Gen 5s there, which depresses me (I knew that more than that are out there, but that makes it real for me).

I hope 2016 is a magical year in a positive way, and I see that sales are picking up (at least in my little corner of the world, 3 of my close friends picked up Vipers, in the last 2-3 weeks but maybe that's because I'm an awesome salesperson , but unless Dodge get's excited about selling new Vipers in the 80-90k range (or does something drastic to justofy a higher price), it might just be a disappearing act.

 

[MoparMap]

I don't think dealers did themselves any favors either ordering up fully optioned cars and letting them sit on their lots. A lot went by the typical approach of "have the best of the best sitting there and let them talk down to lower options", but as soon as anyone saw a $140k price tag (with dealer markup no less), they never realized you could get one down to $100k if you started from the bottom up. In my opinion almost every single car sold should have really been customer ordered and not dealer ordered. When you have that low of a car production volume you let the buyers decide what they want, not the sales people.

And I still doubt big horsepower and a flappy paddle would move that many more cars. The car is still a Viper and attracts a certain crowd based on its name and heritage. I'm skeptical a Ferrari guy would give a Viper a second look, regardless of how impressive the car might be, because "it's not a Ferrari". The same goes for the GT-R crowd, "if it doesn't have AWD I don't want it", and so on. You can't make one car work for everyone. Not to mention a fancy gearbox and more horsepower might drive costs up even more. Say they do a supercharged version with DCT, but now it costs $150k base. Are you going to be any more likely to pay 50% over its current cost just for a better 1/4 mile time? Maybe they don't do a supercharger but instead go with a high winding N/A build of lower displacement. Now you get 750hp, but only 400 ft-lbs of torque so now you don't get the instant kick in the pants that the current torque monster V10 provides and you have to drive it around a gear down winding 4000 rpm to have any hope of pulling a guy who pulls up next to you and guns it.

I'm not saying that some changes wouldn't help sales to some degree, but there's no magic bullet that will suddenly make everyone want to buy a Viper. More power might help sell some cars, but if it comes at more cost you might drive away just as many people. Flappy paddles could attract others, but again likely at added cost. The car sets scorching lap times as is, so saying it needs better perfomance is a little frivolous. Maybe they can swap gearing to get a better 1/4 mile time, but if that suddenly makes it lap slower than a Vette then people will be up in arms all over again for a different reason. You buy a car with your heart as much as with your head, so for those who don't share the company's vision for the car, it's just not for you, simple as that.

We might live in a democracy, but that doesn't mean car design is done by popular vote. Companies produce products that they want to produce because they think the market is there. There is so much more going on behind the scenes that might keep them from putting certain features in cars. Maybe the EPA stranglehold is keeping a supercharger out of the picture, or maybe it's the CAFE limits that keep the power down. Maybe they just can't find a supplier who doesn't want to charge an arm and a leg for only 1500 DCT boxes a year. Perhaps they have a contract agreement with some supplier that keeps them from changing designs without paying a huge early termination penalty. That's all corporate politics and not something a CEO is going to give a straight answer on. "Sorry, we'd love to do a DCT but we have a contract deal with Tremec for the next 5 years to supply all high performance transmissions that would cost us 5 million to cancel."

I want Chrysler to go back and build the ME412 so bad I'd sell a kidney and making questionable financial investments with the money for the hope of ever seeing one in person. That was a Bugatti Veyron before its time and STOMPED the world car performance stage at pennies on the dollar compared to the few cars that could even compete at that level (not to mention still being toward the top today), but it was killed because it stepped on Mercedes (who was partnered with Chrylser at the time) toes, simple as that. It wasn't because it was too expensive or too unsafe or anything like that. It was faster than Mercedes ultra premium car of the time (McLaren SLR) and cost a fraction of the price. Oh, and it was designed in a little over a year compared to the 10+ years the SLR took. It embarassed Mercedes so bad they pulled the plug and kept it from the world.

 

[sunsalem]

I don't think dealers did themselves any favors either ordering up fully optioned cars and letting them sit on their lots. A lot went by the typical approach of "have the best of the best sitting there and let them talk down to lower options", but as soon as anyone saw a $140k price tag (with dealer markup no less), they never realized you could get one down to $100k if you started from the bottom up.

+1

And I still doubt big horsepower and a flappy paddle would move that many more cars. The car is still a Viper and attracts a certain crowd based on its name and heritage.

OK, then not enough of them have bought the G5.

Say they do a supercharged version with DCT, but now it costs $150k base. Are you going to be any more likely to pay 50% over its current cost just for a better 1/4 mile time?

Not with the Z06 available.

You buy a car with your heart as much as with your head, so for those who don't share the company's vision for the car, it's just not for you, simple as that.

Question is: what is Dodge's vision for Viper street cars going forward?

I want Chrysler to go back and build the ME412 so bad I'd sell a kidney and making questionable financial investments with the money for the hope of ever seeing one in person. That was a Bugatti Veyron before its time and STOMPED the world car performance stage at pennies on the dollar compared to the few cars that could even compete at that level (not to mention still being toward the top today), but it was killed because it stepped on Mercedes (who was partnered with Chrylser at the time) toes, simple as that. It wasn't because it was too expensive or too unsafe or anything like that. It was faster than Mercedes ultra premium car of the time (McLaren SLR) and cost a fraction of the price. Oh, and it was designed in a little over a year compared to the 10+ years the SLR took. It embarassed Mercedes so bad they pulled the plug and kept it from the world.

The ME412 was a World-******....which is precisely why Fiat would never allow it either.

 

[Free2go]

The Viper has to start over and reinvent itself to EVER make it in today's market. There are a lot of young members around here and on the pink team that are no where near their full income potential and will be purchasing these cars and running $hit in the future. Dodge better shake a leg.

 

[Torquemonster]

The Viper has to start over and reinvent itself to EVER make it in today's market. There are a lot of young members around here and on the pink team that are no where near their full income potential and will be purchasing these cars and running $hit in the future. Dodge better shake a leg.

This man knows his $hit

I also agree that 2016 looks to be exciting for Viper, I do not see it going away just yet. Nothing wrong with the shape, but it needs new trans technology and Hellcat topping power to be top dog.

 

[Free2go]

There are a lot of young members around here and on the pink team that are no where near their full income potential and will be purchasing these cars and $hitting in their pants in the future. Dodge better shake a leg.

What I meant to say.....