The current and future state of Viper sales and technology

[sunsalem]

When he made the statement about there being an internal hp war (referring to Hellcat vs viper), I thought wowwwww. another marketing miscue, like reporting the 5 extra hp. Why would you even want to mention that or have it known?

Good point.
The announcement actually generated more ridicule of SRT than anything else.

I am not as impressed with this Ralph guy as others. I have zero confidence that Dodge, SRT or ?, will get this right. This car has no future with the same team plan and agenda.

No argument here.

I think most of Ralph's acclaim was 2 fold....
1. He actually drives his Viper on track, which impresses the "track" guys.
2. That, according to the reports, his impassioned presentation to Sergio is the reason there was an actual G5 for the 2013 model year.

In the meantime I am having a blast with my 2013, driving it to work almost everyday and loving every mile. no hurry to sell the viper....having too much fun. It's a superb car and at the $86k it cost me, exceptional value.

Good to hear.

 

[FrankBarba]

BruceH or anyone else that tracks your GenV. Can i use your car for a HPDE? May be get my a$$ in a GEN V
to see what i'm missing from my other Vipers. Can't see spending north of 110K for a Track Viper without a Test Drive.
Come on guys with GEN V's set up to the plate. I will pay for tires, gas, brakes and anything else that might break
on your GEN V while i'm putting it thru true Track Conditions.

 

[Stealth]

On the issue of Gen V performance peers, did anyone note the performance specs of the new Lambrogini Hurican in C & D? It looks like they got a ringer car. For a 602hp/413trq, 3423lbs car (AWD and DCT), they got insande #s: 0-60: 2.5; ADN 1/4MI.: 10.50 @135 mph--before the car broke a coolant hose. Other C & D tests have stated more believable #s: 2.9 sec. and 10.9 sec. In any event, this shows the promise of the new tech for possible future versions of the Viper.

 

[sunsalem]

On the issue of Gen V performance peers, did anyone note the performance specs of the new Lambrogini Hurican in C & D? It looks like they got a ringer car. For a 602hp/413trq, 3423lbs car (AWD and DCT), they got insande #s: 0-60: 2.5; ADN 1/4MI.: 10.50 @135 mph--before the car broke a coolant hose.

2.5 isn't out of the realm of possibility....look what they got from the new Porsche Turbo S:
http://www.caranddriver.com/porsche/911-turbo-turbo-s

In any event, this shows the promise of the new tech for possible future versions of the Viper.

Hard to top DCT or AWD...especially when combined.

 

[05Commemorative]

Kind of a "No S**t Sherlock" statement. Viper issue is not HP, but getting it to the ground. AWD does that for these other cars. why do you guys think the GTR is fast out of the hole. DCT helps also and allows the driver to be out of the equation, no skill required.

btw, what is the price on the Huracan? should folks on here say it is priced too high and be lowered to 70k so they can afford it?

On the issue of Gen V performance peers, did anyone note the performance specs of the new Lambrogini Hurican in C & D? It looks like they got a ringer car. For a 602hp/413trq, 3423lbs car (AWD and DCT), they got insande #s: 0-60: 2.5; ADN 1/4MI.: 10.50 @135 mph--before the car broke a coolant hose. Other C & D tests have stated more believable #s: 2.9 sec. and 10.9 sec. In any event, this shows the promise of the new tech for possible future versions of the Viper.

 

[sunsalem]

btw, what is the price on the Huracan?

According to C&D, it starts at 240k.

should folks on here say it is priced too high and be lowered to 70k so they can afford it?

Who said that?
I didn't.

In post# 203, I said a NEW Viper-lite model with the 6.4L should be priced around that price, NOT current cars.
"There is many ways to reduce cost for an entry level Viper-lite model: such as lose the expensive Prefix paint job, use more plastic in the interior, bring in more automation on the assembly line, etc.
Make it a cut above the base Vette, price it in the upper 60s to low 70s and see if it is possible to lure some of the Chevy Faithfull over to the Darkside."

According to the most credible sources, the upcoming Z06 will start at 80K (prices will be announced within a month).
IMO and FWIW, the SRT should start there too.
I believe it's possible to siphon off some of those guys from GM.
It definitely WOULD give them a pause before ordering....especially if the 2015 SRT is really a TA in disguise.

 

[klamathpro]

Dodge can't price the Viper in the same realm as the Z06, there are too few Vipers made. The price of the base Viper should stay just under $100k, even by a few bucks, but the performance needs to dominate more cars on the street. The GT-R dominates because of three major factors, AWD, DCT, and a killer launch control. But the driver has to be on full alert and fully engaged to launch it in RRR manual mode. The idea that a DCT takes the driver out of the equation is hearsay. My 800HP GT-R takes more concentration and timing than my GTS. I don't know how to describe it, but it's just as engaging and requires just as much concentration on the track to go fast, it's just a different concentration. I think a DCT can be designed to be just as brutal and engaging as a stick, minus the left foot action. But you use two hands to shift instead of one. If you keep it out of auto mode, blasting through gears requires bloody fast reaction time because of how quick it goes through the gears. It won't be for everyone, but then the Viper could be in the sub 3 sec 0-60 and mid 10 quarter mile with a DCT. The MP4-12C is RWD and knocks out a sub 3 sec 0-60 and 10.4@135mph with only 616hp. The Viper is a little heavier but has wider tires, it could match these numbers. Three gear changes take 200ms longer with a stick. That's 600ms that could be knocked off the Viper's time. There's your mid 10 sec time.

 

[Free2go]

The Viper needs more exotic styling, lower, wider, 750hp, HUD, 10 way adjustable seats with lumbar support, and an array of voice activated technological gadgets.....priced near $200k.

 

[Bruce H.]

I let two track friends drive mine at speed after taking a few laps with me first. They were both advanced level drivers that I knew well and they knew the particular tracks very well. Did you drive your other Vipers on track before buying them? Great opportunity if you did. I was fortunate to have randy Pobst anwer my questions because I couldn't even see one, never mind sit in or even drive on the street. What do you find missing in your existing Vipers that you would like to see in your next one?

BruceH or anyone else that tracks your GenV. Can i use your car for a HPDE? May be get my a$$ in a GEN V
to see what i'm missing from my other Vipers. Can't see spending north of 110K for a Track Viper without a Test Drive.
Come on guys with GEN V's set up to the plate. I will pay for tires, gas, brakes and anything else that might break
on your GEN V while i'm putting it thru true Track Conditions.

 

[FLL-B/W-GTS]

It also takes a great degree skill in launching a 911 Turbo S also,as it is so violent,no matter how many times you do it,it scars the shixx out of ya, one has to concentrate on not getting a heart attack...

 

[MoparMap]

I tend to mostly agree with the latest comments.
My main issue with the new Gen V is the gearbox and the unwillingness to offer a DCT.
I did test drive the Gen V and it was the hardest box I have ever driven. This includes (2000 models) All porches, all vettes and all mustangs (even GT500). More specifically the clutch and gear lever effort is simply not acceptable. I even drove a Gen 4 viper and it was not that bad.
Even for the track, I do not understand the fun in having such hard actions.
You have to make it livable to attract cross shoppers. Right now, I view the gearbox as the number one challenge. I am not saying to kill it, just offer a DCT option which will also make it a lot quicker for drag racing.
(look at the new ZF box in the Vanquish, it improved its o-60 times by 1/2 second)

Guessing you probably drove it long enough to get warm, but I've noticed my car (gen 3) is pretty stiff shifting initially, but after a good warm up and everything up to temp it gets quite a bit smoother and easier.

 

[MoparMap]

You make good points. But to INCREASE sales, they must build a Viper to dominate the STREETS.

Street racing is really pretty stupid though. It's about the worst place you should ever drive your car hard. There are other (generally stupid) people on the road who will get in your way, curbs and other crap to run into, less than ideal road conditions, and almost no margin for error. I learned it myself the hard way running with a driving club when my talent ran out. It's fun to drive a car hard and it does feel like a pretty big waste to just putz around in it (believe me, I daily mine and it's always tempting to press a little harder on the gas). I only do stupid stuff in my car when no one else is around or I know I have room to mess up.

 

[Free2go]

Street racing is really pretty stupid though. It's about the worst place you should ever drive your car hard. There are other (generally stupid) people on the road who will get in your way, curbs and other crap to run into, less than ideal road conditions, and almost no margin for error. I learned it myself the hard way running with a driving club when my talent ran out. It's fun to drive a car hard and it does feel like a pretty big waste to just putz around in it (believe me, I daily mine and it's always tempting to press a little harder on the gas). I only do stupid stuff in my car when no one else is around or I know I have room to mess up.

I see your point. You finally get to a spot in life where you have more experience than testosterone. Bottom line here is the current state of Viper sales is not good. The future state of Viper sales is grim. The latest technological advances are going to have to be applied liberally to future Vipers to even compete with competitor performance. They will have to be made better, cost much more, and be in short supply to resurrect their former mystique. Not only would this route make the younger people aspire to own one, but it would make the Viper even more exclusive and desirable to the market SRT initially set out to woo with the Gen V. This would also have an enormous trickle down effect eventually making previous generations more valuable to own. It has to be the best or die.

 

[sunsalem]

I see your point. You finally get to a spot in life where you have more experience than testosterone. Bottom line here is the current state of Viper sales is not good. The future state of Viper sales is grim. The latest technological advances are going to have to be applied liberally to future Vipers to even compete with competitor performance. They will have to be made better, cost much more, and be in short supply to resurrect their former mystique. Not only would this route make the younger people aspire to own one, but it would make the Viper even more exclusive and desirable to the market SRT initially set out to woo with the Gen V. This would also have an enormous trickle down effect eventually making previous generations more valuable to own. It has to be the best or die.

This is the entire point of why I started this thread: what will be necessary to securing the Viper's future.

 

[Thom]

I believe the majority of Viper buyers/owners are in the middle-class income bracket. Couple that with the fact that the bad 2008 recession after-effects are still not over, means the best thing Chrysler can presently do to encourage new Viper sales is to keep the final sale price in the five figures, not six figures.

I remember when I first read the sticker price of the new 2013 Viper, the first thought through my mind was "That's too much."

 

[Free2go]

I believe the majority of Viper buyers/owners are in the middle-class income bracket. Couple that with the fact that the bad 2008 recession after-effects are still not over, means the best thing Chrysler can presently do to encourage new Viper sales is to keep the final sale price in the five figures, not six figures.

I remember when I first read the sticker price of the new 2013 Viper, the first thought through my mind was "That's too much."

I'm talking about making it a SUPER car. America's super car. It must be the absolute best and cost between $200-$250k.

 

[sunsalem]

I believe the majority of Viper buyers/owners are in the middle-class income bracket. Couple that with the fact that the bad 2008 recession after-effects are still not over, means the best thing Chrysler can presently do to encourage new Viper sales is to keep the final sale price in the five figures, not six figures.
I remember when I first read the sticker price of the new 2013 Viper, the first thought through my mind was "That's too much."

+ 1000000000000000

I'm talking about making it a SUPER car. America's super car. It must be the absolute best and cost between $200-$250k.

Who will buy?

 

[Vypr Phil]

I'm talking about making it a SUPER car. America's super car. It must be the absolute best and cost between $200-$250k.

Could be done for much less and be an absolute SuperCar:

Gen VI, rear-mounted Hellcat mid-engine, designed by Volado and inspired by the Chrysler ME412 concept car.

Offer it at the price point the Ford GT sold, I don't think too many would languish on dealer lots!

 

[Free2go]

Who will buy?

Only the ones who can afford it...you know...the ones who are buying 911S Turbo's, Huracan's, Aventadors, Murcielagos, Ferarri F12's etc. etc. etc......

Basically no one here.

 

[Bobpantax]

The last ten posts or so have certainly been an interesting mass debate. Then there is the reality of budgets, development time, arranging for vendors for a low volume project; meeting EPA regulations, and making a convincing case to managment that there is a business plan that stands a reasonable chance of recouping costs and making a profit.

The bottom line is that the Gen V is what there is to buy. If sales do not pick up, the Viper program will not survive. All the rest of the talk and speculation is interesting but not realistic. FCA is a public company not a "Tuner shop".

 

[REDSLED]

Thanks for the heads up on that.....I'll be sure to spread the word on Rennlist as well.

It also takes a great degree skill in launching a 911 Turbo S also,as it is so violent,no matter how many times you do it,it scars the shixx out of ya, one has to concentrate on not getting a heart attack...

 

[Free2go]

The last ten posts or so have certainly been an interesting mass debate. Then there is the reality of budgets, development time, arranging for vendors for a low volume project; meeting EPA regulations, and making a convincing case to managment that there is a business plan that stands a reasonable chance of recouping costs and making a profit.

The bottom line is that the Gen V is what there is to buy. If sales do not pick up, the Viper program will not survive. All the rest of the talk and speculation is interesting but not realistic. FCA is a public company not a "Tuner shop".

Well....I think it's fair to say you're not a dreamer.

 

[sunsalem]

Only the ones who can afford it...you know...the ones who are buying 911S Turbo's, Huracan's, Aventadors, Murcielagos, Ferarri F12's etc. etc. etc......

Hmmm....Lambo or Ferrari or Dodge....hmmmm....

 

[Twister]

Belieave or not many get just as excited over the dodge viper as ferraris and lambos. Viper just sounds and looks kool and has that mystic about it. People rent them from the exotic lots here in hawaii and **** them for a few days.

Viper is a very special car.

 

[sunsalem]

Belieave or not many get just as excited over the dodge viper as ferraris and lambos. Viper just sounds and looks kool and has that mystic about it.

True.

People rent them from the exotic lots here in hawaii and **** them for a few days.

I rented a G1 on Maui a couple of decades ago.
Had a great time on the road to Hana.

BTW, hope you all survived the hurricanes all right.

 

[viper vince]

Yes they are cool but it comes down to MONEY! They are just not selling. I think they will be done after 2015.Fiat Chrysler are in the business to make $$$$ !!!!

 

[Free2go]

I rented a G1 on Maui a couple of decades ago.
Had a great time on the road to Hana.

Was on that road a few years back. And you got to drive a Viper on it. Bastard.

 

[MoparMap]

Part of what is so tricky with Viper pricing is its history. In my opinion at least, it was always thought of as the attainable supercar. It was the one that you could save up and actually buy that had all the performance of something 3 times the price. I think part of what got it down in the lower price point was its lack of technology. They made it fast with engineering as opposed to technical wizardry. I'd agree that the current price point for the new ones feels high based on that, but then again everything is more expensive today and that might be what it takes to compete. Maybe it was Dodge's "this is the best performance we can get out of the car for the lowest price". A DCT might make it lap a second quicker, but might raise the price another $5k. If it's an option that has a low take rate is might be more like $10k a car extra. It's a slippery slope kind of deal. Every little bit you add makes it faster, but it can have exponential effects on pricing when the dust settles.

In the long run I suppose none of this really bothers me as I love my gen 3 and doubt I'll give it up for anything unless I just absolutely have to. The gen 5 is awesome and I'm glad Viper is back in the game, but it's just not the car for me. I don't think it will ever be in my price range and the looks just don't quite fit my taste. My favorite Viper is the one I own =P.

 

[netapp]

Of the people complaining of the high price of the viper, have you not shopped for new vehicles lately. The sticker of my loaded ram 1500 2013 model was $57k. I went looking at the new tahoes for my wife, a loaded out one was over 65k. It's not just automobiles that are expensive anymore, recently purchased a 550cc polaris atv which was over 10k.

 

[Nsane1]

I think it's crazy that I paid 70k for a Jeep, and people are getting new Gen 5s for about 20k more. Too bad I need a truck instead of another viper, not sure we can complain about pricing anymore...