Thoughts and suggestions 2004 V-10 Nationals Race series??? Please comment

[Dr Roof]

I am currently working on the 2004 V-10 Nationals Series and I am wanting to make it as fair as possible. I am asking for opinions and thoughts concerning the venue.

when the rules are set they will not change for the entire season.

the 2004 series will be a point series that will end with a championship Race. a minimum of 3 races is required to win. we will have at least 6 races with the VOI 8 included in the series.

How did you like the index that was set at the Texas race?
Is it better to break classes down by Mod levels?

Please respond.

thanks in advance

 

[Paolo Castellano]

I am currently working on the 2004 V-10 Nationals Series and I am wanting to make it as fair as possible. I am asking for opinions and thoughts concerning the venue.

when the rules are set they will not change for the entire season.

the 2004 series will be a point series that will end with a championship Race. a minimum of 3 races is required to win. we will have at least 6 races with the VOI 8 included in the series.

How did you like the index that was set at the Texas race?
Is it better to break classes down by Mod levels?

Please respond.

thanks in advance

David, I will tell you everything I fould wrong with your race event:

1. No organized standing miles.

2. No organized highway roll-on races.

3. Too far from Chicago.

4. You did not find someone to help me drive there and back.

5. No strippers==> You could learn a thing or two from TOOOFST who has had them at the strip in the past!

Just kidding! But those things would have been nice!

I did think the weasels closing the track early made the trip seem further.

Seriously, ==> I think there should be a burnout contest for sure!


I also think there should be a charity portion where all the internet personalities could sign up to be dunked or have pies thrown in their faces!LOL!

Without a doubt the biggest a-holes would be able to DO THEIR PART in raising money! What do you think about that?

P.S. I will be happy to help organize any standing miles or chaarity dunking/pie-in-the face events. ==> We'll leave the strippers to TOOOFST!

 

[1TONY1]

1. Pro tree......especially if the NSCA Viper/Vette deal is going to run on a pro tree.

2. I don't like the index classes but i'll be dang if I know how to please everybody with the mod classes.

3. Yes strippers and I don't mean Cudaman stripping either.

 

[Cudaman]

Paolo..... I have a personal guaranty from the track owner we will our full time, NO storage at this track, Sunday gates open at 9:00 am, track goes hot at 10:00 am and we can race until 5:00pm.

Sat is street tires, it will be from gates opening at 9:00am, track hot at 10:00am until 3:00pm. NO night time on Pilots.....this should produce some of our fastest Pilot times ever!!!!

Friday is dyno, so there will be no problems running dyno and Pilot series because they are a day apart.

Cudaman

 

[Cudaman]

3. Yes strippers and I don't mean Cudaman stripping either.

It would be a sad day in the adult industry if I strip, but I have heard their is a rumor from some of the racer's wives, that Tony is available for private adult dancing for them. Tony there is some serious competion or enjoyment for you in Tampa.

Cudaman

 

[utahviper]

I don't particularly like the index racing because someone can just sandbag and get in a higher class and just let off.

I think the track rental should be all day not until 3:00. Looking back that really made me upset because I traveled so far and I only got 4 runs on slicks.

I think there needs to be more social activities. A dinner, go cart racing, shot the bull session with all the tuners there, or something like that.

There needs to be a great lunch at the track that is prepaid so you don't have to leave the track on race day and you can sit around and bs with everyone. Also, the track needs to be shut down for lunch. This will give any of those people who need to make repairs time to do it and those who want to eat can eat. This will give time to socialize as well. Maybe have the charity event at this time.

I agree with paolo about the charitable event. That sounds like a great idea.

We need more vendors there showing off their new products and letting people try products there, where possible. I think unitrax should be there with an entire rearend assemble ready to install it at any time. I would give them free admission and a free booth if they would install the rearend for free as long as the customer bought the parts. I hate to see people travel so far and not be able to compete because of a drivetrain issue.

You need to make people prepay for the event or charge more at the gate than if you pay early. That might help some of the people not back out.

I think of somemore but that will do for right now.

 

[1TONY1]

I think I will be there even if I have to drive my car down !! Tonight I just pulled the injector pump off my 1997 DODGE dually AGAIN. THANKS DODGE 134,000 miles and I have only had to build the motor one time, replace the head, have the injector pump rebuilt ($1300), replace the vacuum pump ($550), had 5th gear fall off the shaft crossing the Mississippi river towing the 38' trailer, broke the tranny mainshaft (at the dragstrip....my bad) center force clutch is hosed currently. Oh yea....thanks to Cummins too. Good for 300,000 miles my a$$

p.s. Cudaman, you sure you don't have the 2nd quickest and 3rd fastest Roe Viper

 

[Dr Roof]

Tony
Get a new truck

 

[cstegall]

David,

I have emailed you on some "other" aspects of the events. Let me know what you think. I might be able to help.

Clark

 

[1TONY1]

Tony
Get a new truck

If I get a new truck, my race car (SRT4 ) has to go. I would much rather have my old Dog stay together. But you are right....when towing long distances, ESPECIALLY when towing a gooseneck trailer you need to be able to depend on your truck.

 

[TOOOFST]

Doc,how bout 1 power adder only
LOL

 

[1TONY1]

Doc,how bout 1 power adder only
LOL

Yea....take all the intercoolers off

 

[pauls]

Roof contact me about the Ohio dates.

I'm not red hot on the index system either. But if that gets a car count so be it. (what was the car count in TX?)
Sandbagging? Who going to define this? If you have created an index system smart drivers are not going to put themselves in the 11.00 class if they are running 11.50. The object is to win!
The street tire shootout seems to be popular and no one seems to whine about who has what mods. Maybe you could hold some run what you brung shootouts for other combinations. Get NOS to sponsor a quick 8 for a special purse for Nitrous cars, or Levin does it for all SC cars.


It's more work, but I still like Tom's Comp style index system. Maybe after you have a years worth of data in your records, you establish an index for the popular combinations. IE Stock Gen 1 13.00, Stock gen 2 12.60, Stock SRT 10 12.50, Mod 1 (bolt ons) 11.75, Mod 2 (one power adder) 11.00, Unlimited 10.25. You first run all the same class cars headsup. (If you go under your index by more the .500 your index is lowered by that amount the next round.) All cars run together and when the "same class" cars are gone you run any other car handicapped by the different indexes. More complicated but it provides an incentive to go fast not win by a nose.

 

[Mike Adams]

Would you be interested in us hosting an event in Canada. We would be only Miles from the Casino Niagra. And at Cayuga Race way, they have a quarter Mile track and a Road course facility. We have a 5 star facility to stay in or could use a lower price facility. This would be an awesome venue for a regional event. The facility is very safe

http://www.torontomotorsportspark.com/raceway/home.htm

http://www.infoniagara.com/attractions/casino.html

 

[Casey]

Keep up the GREAT work on these events so that in a couple years I can enjoy them too!!
And then we can have one out in the corn fields of Indiana!! Where you don't need a roll bar unless you are planning on rolling it!!

 

[Mike 99ACR]

How do you guys feel about owners only driving their cars?

 

[SVS Turbo]

Any year any make

Turbo 6 speed
Turbo Auto

Blower 6 speed
Blower Auto

Roots Blower 6 speed
Roots Blower Auto

All Motor 6 Speed
All Motor Auto

Stock all the way up to All Motor is complicated?????

Add an NOS class to every one of these.

Weight should be a consideration when things get more serious

I don't know anything about drag racing classes or rules so pick this apart at will.

 

[Tom Welch]

Something different to think about........

The NHRA uses HP as a measure of determining car classes and index. What about establishing classes based upon horsepower. Not that difficult...and for those who do not know their HP, these events have a dyno day associated with them for establishing their cars power. This method eliminates the arguments about modifications and groups the cars by their power output. Examples;

Stock Gen 1 370-390 RWHP

Stock Gen 2 400-415 RWHP

Modified 1 420-500 RWHP

Modified 2 500-550 RWHP

All of the above classes run on STOCK TIRES ONLY to help even out the field

Extreme MO 550 and UP RWHP MOTOR ONLY

Modified 4 550-700 RWHP

Super Modified 700-850 RWHP

Unlimited 850 and Up RWHP any engine mod 6 speed

King of Strip Autos-anything goes


Think about it........the stock classes are similar to what they are now, the modified classes fit most of the combinations that are currently on the market and the Unlimited and King class fit the high dollar, ultimate modded, crowd pleaser category.

Those who are "secretive about their mods RWHP output will fall into the unlimited or King, category. Those without dyno sheets will be placed into an appropriate category based upon their modifications and the quickest car in that class (penalty for not knowing their output). Class placement issued by event staff.

All typical awards will be included like quickest and fastest for classes, winners, runners up, dyno awards, reaction time, 60 foot time, etc.

OK, go ahead.........tear holes in this format if you can....but in reality it is the best way to compare mods on the same kind of racing venue and places an emphasis on driver skill. After all, we are all doing these events in an effort to constantly improve, and competition from our peers will only help us to do just that.

Tom

 

[MannyC]

Tom, the problem with that is similar to the problem I have had in the past when going paintball gun shooting. They have this little gizmo that you shoot into before you are allowed on the field, and it measures how fast your paintballs are flying. If it's too fast, you need to turn the pressure down until you are within limits. As soon as you are, you are in the field and you can crank the power back up, and I know a lot of guys did this because you can FEEL the difference.

With a Dyno day, somebody running Nitrous can run a 50 shot, and then on race day run a 200 shot. S/C'd cars can tighten their belts up after the Dyno and get an extra 100 HP. Turbo'd cars click a swtich and boost is increased.

We can hope for an honors system, but when it comes to racing, who knows what will happen.

Manny

 

[Tom Welch]

Manny,

Good points. Keep in mind that many Viper owners are proud of their dyno numbers and most even post the sheets on these forums. I would suggest that on "dyno day" if a particlular car was down in power from their "brag on the boards" pull, that we defer to that pull or allow event staff to class them on race day based upon their mods.

If I see a nitrous only car run 140+ mph, I know he is making over 700 HP. Regardless of a dyno pull. Same thing for other mods. There have been enough of these events now that hp classes can be established.

I guess I would have to ask, why would someone put in a smaller nitrous jet or loosen the s/c belt or turn down the boost? That does not insure a victory on race day.....we are smarter than that. Keep in mind that all of the tuners will be on hand, and do not want the shame of poor performance of their products. I would kick the asp of a customer who tried to pull something like that....as I am sure the other tuners would do the same.

Tom

P.S. I will use myself as an example, not to open an old can of worms............At the Bowling Green event, I won the mod 2 class and was the quickest car. I was running a single stage of NOS. Some accused me of using a dual stage system, but the dyno sheets don't lie. My car has made between 776 and 785 RWHP for the last (2) years and I have experimented with several differnt nitrous options in an event to increase 60' times on given tracks....as evident by myself and Lee Saunders having the quickest 60' times at the event last weekend in Texas (1.406 and 1.408). Again, the dyno numbers don't lie, we made 785 RWHP last weekend and 776 2 years ago. No one could escape capture in a HP classed event. Trust me, the NHRA has been doing it this way for 40 years.

 

[V10 MOJO]

i gotta say, toms idea for classes is damnn good and as elementary easy as can be to follow. i agree the only hole is the honor and honesty of the individual but with all of you viper veterans im sure you could easily catch someone lying, and when you do, OFF with his HEAD!!

BTW, are BFGs considered street tires

 

[1TONY1]

What about torque monsters like nitrous cars that have the big spread between hp and tq ? One point I can make after seeing the cars at SAT, when these cars are modded fairly well there is not a huge difference in et's. Oh yea....the car with insane sixty foots (1.40)should have to bump up a class

 

[pauls]

Assume you are posting RWHP. Use a dyno after a run to settle a protest?

I still don't understand the street tire rule for Mod cars. OK for stock cars but people don't modify cars to run on street tires. You modify a car to see how fast it will go! (The Premise of Heads UP Racing) Got to have an option to run slicks in a mod class. The largest potential class would include bolt on mods like exhaust, rockers, gears, etc. Then you have police what is a "street tire". At VOI (Mod 1) people slid in with all kinds of soft BFGs and Nittos. Just allow slicks and the controversy is over.

OR get a sponsor and make that a spec tire. BFG Drag Radial Modified Class.

 

[pauls]

Another thought, most of you are focusing your rules on highly modified cars. SVS has four classes that have a potential of attracting 10 to 15 cars total for all combinations on a promoter's best day. Yes everyone wants to see the highly modified fast cars, but more importantly is you must appeal to the masses. The masses are the cars that pay the bills. You need a dozen stock or modified cars for each SC, NOS or Unlimited car to fill the ranks. Be sure the classes are attractive and fun for the average Viper owner.

 

[Gary C (GaryCSilver04)]

Doctor Roof,

There is no way to please everyone. Been there done that.

The way it worked out it Texas was great, to improve on it going to be tough.

This is the way I look at it, Most Viper owners like going left and right if they race, how do we get them to join up to just go straight with us? Do we run 1/8 mile also? We could break down the 1/8 milers with a 60 foot contest? Either you run 1/8 or 1/4? The wife can run 1/8 or hubby can run 1/4? Or the other way around.

To me (which all of you don't know me) it's about car count, having fun before, during and after the event. And getting new people involved. There is nothing better seeing a newbie to drag racing have that huge smile with a time slip in their hands no matter how well they did. And I guess I should say I want to be the fastest/Quickest of the day in my class, who doesn't.

OK, running a dial in *****, I have always hated Drag racing where you lift/brake...

The dyno numbers are a great idea, but can be fudged on, if you go with the dyno numbers and someone wins the class could they be bumped to the next higher level? But then the good drivers get penalized.


All in all, the smoother this goes(rules) the more cars will be involved and better times will be had.

OMT, there should be NO MONEY for prizes,,, trophys and merchandise/gift certificates Period,,,,,,,,,People after the fact can sell their gifts certificates/ merchandise,,, Side bets sure,,, pools yes,,,, but please no money for winning a class.

thanks
Gary C

 

[J DAWG]

Build it and they will come. Index IMO is ultimately the fairest way, but this really favors the guys who race their cars often, so FAIR is relative. Classes based on mods could work, but the rules would have to be detailed and someone would have to strictly oversee the vehicles.


St Louis would be a central location.

 

[V10 MOJO]

JDawg you coming down to bradenton??

 

[Tom Welch]

Paul,

The street tire option for the stock type cars helps equal out the playing field as the more power on street tires the better the driver has to be to get a good launch. I absolutely disagree with your thoughts about the steet tire classes. As a matter of fact...for the fellow who posted about appealing to the masses, limiting the stock type (500 hp and below) cars to stock tires will help fill these classes as many Viper owners do not own a set of slicks and skiinnies for the track.

I hope that there is a street tire shootout at this event and all the events for that matter. A race that has few limitations on mods....one big class, winner take all.

Tom

 

[newredrt10]

You could split the street tire shootout in to groups. One group that runs what ever street tire they have on the car. This class could have a lower prize limit. Then run a second class that gets the tires at the track making eveything even. Fees and prizes for this class can be greater.

 

[mntngts99]

Since your on the tire subject. When you say
(get their tires at the track) is that RENT or BUY? I am wanting to get more involved at the track this next year and have been trying to get more info about the different tire class's that run. I know this isn't about the main post,but sometimes you just have to ask.
Brad