Ti Alloy Roll Bar/Cage??

[SlowCreamPuff]

Do such beasts exist?

Is the Ti Alloy too difficult to work with?

Until the crazy cream puff is done, I won't reveal the details...

 

[Bill/APEX Motorsports]

Titanium needs to be welded in an oxygen-free environment, making something as large as a roll bar/cage pretty impractical to build.
There are certainly easier and cheaper ways to build a good roll cage. Using smaller diamter (1 3/4"), thinner wall (.095") tubing is usually all that's necessary, and it won't be that heavy. Of course, it won't be as light as titanium, but it'll be a fraction of the cost.

 

[Bill/APEX Motorsports]

Yeah, if you're racing with a sanctioning body (NHRA, SCCA), you obviously have to read their rules regarding roll bars and conform to them. If you're wanting a cage that's more than sufficient for open tracking, then what I described is fine. Getting away from thick, large diameter tubing will save weight without sacrificing safety, but rules are rules. If the rules stipulate a certain tubing, you're stuck using it.
The cage in my '89 Mustang coupe is 2"x.120" wall for the main hoop, while the rest (door bars, front hoop, halo, rear bars, etc.) are 1 3/4"x.095", and it's plenty stiff and safe for open tracking. There are no rules for open tracking, though...

 

[Mike H]

....T1...is a a SCCA class, so if thats what he wants to run in, then 1.3/4 X 120 wall is the pipe....for cars over 3000 lbs that is...

 

[Dion Fisher]

I have friends up here Mike that are building theirs out of chrome moly for strength and weight savings.. I can get you hooked up with these folks so you can get the inside scoop and possibly set up some contacts for the install..

 

[Tom Welch]

Bill,

Hello, .095 wall tubing does not meet NHRA spec. You need to use .118 wall min. We use .120" wall on our bars.

Tom
Http://btrviper.com

 

[Mike H]

To run a Viper in SCCA, because of its weight class, thin wall .095 is NOT allowed . You must use 1 and 3/4 wall pipe, 1.20 DOM NO ERW allowed.

 

[Mike H]

SCCA says no to Chrome molley in the Viper, as the weight is closer to 3300 lbs, chrome mollay is not allowed. I am told they will fail a viper in that class with Chrome molley.

 

[Tom and Vipers]

No Chrome-Moly?

Years ago, it was acceptable to oxy-acetylene weld 4140 for aircraft frames. The neat thing about using the torch was that there were no appreciable residual stresses that required heat treating.

Of course, welding this stuff is tricky. First, you have to learn how to weld it w/o over heating and boiling the puddle. And then, if you were unfortunate (stupid) enough to "pop" the torch, the entire weld area had to be removed and replaced because bubbles had been blown into the metal.

The F15 STOL nozzle was a titanium weldment with 6 miles of weld. The trick to weld was to tape a plastic "baggie" around the weld area so the region could be completed flooded with shielding gas. Of course, a heat treat followed. ...and it was pretty tricky too. Ever hear of "getter strips?"

I don't like to see sanctioning bodies outlawing superior technology to keep something lotec.

...such as the side bar of a cage which has broken so many hips. Of course, this is not considered a problem. "Pad it," is the "solution." Rather than a redesign of this area...

And of course helmets. Only now is there public acknowledgement that helment mass can cause neck injuries.

Duh?

So what do they do? Incorporate clap trap to react the massive helmet... AND keep increasing strength requirements for helmets which makes them HEAVIER!

What a laugh!

Helmets should all be made of carbon fiber or whatever the highest specific strength material know to man is AND should be OPTIMIZED regarding ultimate strength and mass. Yes, getting killed from a helmet failure is bad - but so is a broken neck from a helmet that is too heavy.

Someone at Viper Days should wear a weight optimized helmet because the odds of a head crushing crash are very small, but the odds of a neck injuring event are orders of magnitude greater.

And to think that AutoX requires SA helmets! Frankly, a bicycle helmet might be more appropriate at an autoX.

 

[Tom and Vipers]

No Chrome-Moly?

Years ago, it was acceptable to oxy-acetylene weld 4140 for aircraft frames. The neat thing about using the torch was that there were no appreciable residual stresses that required heat treating.

Of course, welding this stuff is tricky. First, you have to learn how to weld it w/o over heating and boiling the puddle. And then, if you were unfortunate (stupid) enough to "pop" the torch, the entire weld area had to be removed and replaced because bubbles had been blown into the metal.

The F15 STOL nozzle was a titanium weldment with 6 miles of weld. The trick to weld was to tape a plastic "baggie" around the weld area so the region could be completed flooded with shielding gas. Of course, a heat treat followed. ...and it was pretty tricky too. Ever hear of "getter strips?"

I don't like to see sanctioning bodies outlawing superior technology to keep something lotec.

...such as the side bar of a cage which has broken so many hips. Of course, this is not considered a problem. "Pad it," is the "solution." Rather than a redesign of this area...

And of course helmets. Only now is there public acknowledgement that helment mass can cause neck injuries.

Duh?

So what do they do? Incorporate clap trap to react the massive helmet... AND keep increasing strength requirements for helmets which makes them HEAVIER!

What a laugh!

Helmets should all be made of carbon fiber or whatever the highest specific strength material know to man is AND should be OPTIMIZED regarding ultimate strength and mass. Yes, getting killed from a helmet failure is bad - but so is a broken neck from a helmet that is too heavy.

Someone at Viper Days should wear a weight optimized helmet because the odds of a head crushing crash are very small, but the odds of a neck injuring event are orders of magnitude greater.

And to think that AutoX requires SA helmets! Frankly, a bicycle helmet might be more appropriate at an autoX.