To Sell Or Keep 03 Vs 08

[ViperWally]

I have a red 2003 SRT, with 17k miles on her all stock, if I sell it what is a good asking price?

I was looking at getting a Gen IV, do you think its worth the extra $, or can you make a GEN 3, fast without dumping a ton of $?

any thoughts from the experts

 

[Dom426h]

can you make a GEN 3, fast without dumping a ton of $?

How fast?
What do you do?
Dragracing?
Roadracing?
Dynoracing?
Parkinglotpimping?

 

[swexlin]

I have a red 2003 SRT, with 17k miles on her all stock, if I sell it what is a good asking price?

I was looking at getting a Gen IV, do you think its worth the extra $, or can you make a GEN 3, fast without dumping a ton of $?

any thoughts from the experts

Gen 3 easier to mod. Costs a lot of dough (your car, +cash) to do the Gen 3 to 4 upgrade. I know, I have an 03, and it has crossed my mind. I can't justify it.....I can't drive my 03 anywhere near it's limits, let alone a Gen 4. Maybe someday, but not now.

 

[PeterMJ]

I have a red 2003 SRT, with 17k miles on her all stock, if I sell it what is a good asking price?

I was looking at getting a Gen IV, do you think its worth the extra $, or can you make a GEN 3, fast without dumping a ton of $?

any thoughts from the experts

Stock vs stock, Gen 4 is a better car. Unless you need a drag strip car, save your money and get Gen 4. Gen 3 may be easier to mod but unless you do a very comprehensive job and spend a lot of money, these upgrades will catch up with you eventually,.

 

[QUICKSRT10/SRT8]

I traded my 2006 in for a 2010 and love it. Alot more power and fun to drive.

 

[JoelW]

I have spent some money fixing up my '03. Changed and upgraded the rear end, got a removeable hardtop, changed shifters, put on Corsa exhaust, stainless steel brake lines, upgraded oil cooler lines, put on cruise (yes - cruise) all for less than upgrading to a Gen 4. I have friends who have Gen 4's and I can't see a whole lot of difference unless your only criteria is a bit more horsepower and a different hood. They are both great cars but for all practical purposes are nearly the same. So, no I don't think it would be worth a lot of money to upgrade unless you really want one or the money is nearly the same.

 

[PeterMJ]

I have spent some money fixing up my '03. Changed and upgraded the rear end, got a removeable hardtop, changed shifters, put on Corsa exhaust, stainless steel brake lines, upgraded oil cooler lines, put on cruise (yes - cruise) all for less than upgrading to a Gen 4. I have friends who have Gen 4's and I can't see a whole lot of difference unless your only criteria is a bit more horsepower and a different hood. They are both great cars but for all practical purposes are nearly the same. So, no I don't think it would be worth a lot of money to upgrade unless you really want one or the money is nearly the same.

The differences between Gen 3 and Gen 4 can be felt more than seen. Have you driven both at the same time? These differences can be felt, at least I felt them and not in a subtle way.

 

[ViperWally]

Hmm Ill have to go drive a Gen 4. I dont drag race it unless I do Hwy pulls, I have a 1000whp Mustang notch for that. I just love driving it, but from what ive seen the gen 4 are still around 60 - 65 k

I didnt know they were easy to mod. what would you guys suggest me doing to up the Horse power? its stock right now.

 

[PeterMJ]

Hmm Ill have to go drive a Gen 4. I dont drag race it unless I do Hwy pulls, I have a 1000whp Mustang notch for that. I just love driving it, but from what ive seen the gen 4 are still around 60 - 65 k

I didnt know they were easy to mod. what would you guys suggest me doing to up the Horse power? its stock right now.

That would be the way to do it, driving Gen 4 and figuring out if it suits you better. The values are higher because it is a newer car and it apparently depreciates less than Gen 3. If you mod out your car, you will never see this money back should you decide to sell the car in the future. I would PM viperspecialty to find out what would have to be done to increase the horsepower on your car while assuring trouble free use afterwards, I can assure you it will not be cheap.

 

[pdub]

Throw a paxton supercharger on it.

 

[Viktimize]

What would a 2003 fetch? And a red one at that? Maybe low 40's? Cost you 10-15k to slap on a Paxton and make more power than a Gen4. Or get the Mopar 650hp package from VPA for 6500$ and then pay a few bucks for install and be pretty even power to Gen4.

The only real benefits I see to a Gen4 is having the pwer in stock form right from the factory, and the hood. Gen3 and 4 both require rear end, exhaust, shifter, coilovers, etc. But then again I haven't actually driven a Gen4 to see if it feels different.

 

[Paul Hawker]

I had an 03 with Paxton, and traded up to an 09.

The Paxton made the 03 great fun to drive, but not as much faster than you would think. It tended to overpower the chassis, brakes, transmission, rear end, and was difficult, and a bit dangerous to drive at it's limit.

At the drag strip it overpowered the traction available, and did not give as much increase in ET as you would suppose. Around town it would also break traction and got more dangerous as the revs increased.

Don't get me wrong, it was fantastic fun to drive, but it was obvious that getting 800 hp out of a car designed for 500 was a handfull.

Same thing at the road course. While you could blast by people on the straights, you still had the same brakes and suspension to get yourself around the next corner, and you tended to be forced to keep gathering it up as you tried to scrub off the speed you got on the straights.

The 09 (Gen IV) is a whole nother driving experience. The engine makes +600 hp now, but the rear end set up allows it to hook up much better to smoothly drive you off the corner. The transmission shifts much easier and handles the power better. The engine cooling is no more a matter, the brakes seem more up to the task, and the upgraded clutch holds all the power easily, while still giving a easy to modulate feeling and is easier to push.

The Gen IV is a much better integrated package. Where in the Gen III the power flattens out drastically in the upper ranges, the Gen IV begins to pull harder and harder to the higher rev limit. It feels like rocket boost and the suspension and drive line feel very happy with the additional power.

The Gen IV is also smoother riding, and has a better integrated chassis. Just feels like it is built better. The elimination of the heavy exhaust cross over from the III makes the Gen IV lighter, much cooler inside and better sounding.

I believe it is a better car in most regards, however it does not take to forced induction as well as the III. Latest trend for those looking for additional performance from the IV is to add the composite intake and improved cam shaft from the latest Gen V. This will give you closer to the 640 HP of the Gen V, but still have all the reliability and drivability of a naturally aspirated V-10.

Gen IV uses essentially the same engine as the new Gen V. The Gen V engine is a better developed version of the Gen IV, so the Gen IV engines may well benefit from further Viper development for that engine in upcoming years.

The Gen IV's currently command a premium price, being an advanced development of the Viper concept. Do not believe you can turn a Gen III into a better overall package for the current difference in prices.

Gen IV has significant improvements in Engine, transmission, tire technology, brakes, suspension, rear end, cooling, advanced computer controller, intake, exhaust, aeordynamics, hood reduces lift, etc...

 

[PeterMJ]

What would a 2003 fetch? And a red one at that? Maybe low 40's? Cost you 10-15k to slap on a Paxton and make more power than a Gen4. Or get the Mopar 650hp package from VPA for 6500$ and then pay a few bucks for install and be pretty even power to Gen4.

The only real benefits I see to a Gen4 is having the pwer in stock form right from the factory, and the hood. Gen3 and 4 both require rear end, exhaust, shifter, coilovers, etc. But then again I haven't actually driven a Gen4 to see if it feels different.

Are you mocking me? Gen 4 is technologically advanced over Gen 3 all around and yes, you can FEEL it (it is called driving experience). Oh and I am not knocking Gen 3 here, just stating personal observations.

 

[Scottsviper]

I did a lot of research on this subject before I bought my car. I went with the Gen 4 not only is it a better car it is also more rare and will hold its value better. The Gen 3 is fantastic car but to get a Gen 3 to surpass a Gen 4 you have to dump 15K into it and if you are going to do that why not just put it towards the car. With a heavily modified car you will ALWAYS have little headaches no matter how good it was done or who did the work. I have owned many cars (almost 50) and have had many heavily modified cars. The reason I went with the Gen 4 is so I could have a stock 600 HP car that if I wanted to I could jump in it and drive to Vegas and not think twice about it, Try doing that with any 600 HP car that is modified. It all depends on what you really want the car for but in my opinion the Gen 4 trumps the Gen 3

 

[gb66gth]

I've owned both.
Gen IV car better in every way, except the stereo.

 

[Viktimize]

Are you mocking me? Gen 4 is technologically advanced over Gen 3 all around and yes, you can FEEL it (it is called driving experience). Oh and I am not knocking Gen 3 here, just stating personal observations.

Mocking you?? I didn't even reply to you........?

 

[PeterMJ]

Mocking you?? I didn't even reply to you........?

"But then again I haven't actually driven a Gen4 to see if it feels different. "

Why would you write this and use italics?

 

[Ray W]

Went from supercharged Gen III to Gen IV. Never looked back.

 

[swexlin]

Paul mentioned brakes. Don't Gen 3 and 4 have the same Brembo setup? One thing I love about the 03 is the brakes, no complaints there. Curious, as I hadn't realized they were different?

 

[Viktimize]

"But then again I haven't actually driven a Gen4 to see if it feels different. "

Why would you write this and use italics?

Because on paper it's a simple comparison. But some people say it feels better, I personally can't comment on that part, and maybe that's what makes all the difference? Even though it means nothing on paper.

Feeling a little insecure today? lol

 

[PeterMJ]

Because on paper it's a simple comparison. But some people say it feels better, I personally can't comment on that part, and maybe that's what makes all the difference? Even though it means nothing on paper.

Feeling a little insecure today? lol

Nah, secured enough, more like frustrated with myself for not being able to come across in a better way I think paper actually confirms the improvements but what I meant was that in spite of the cars looking about the same, the number of little changes added up to something that definitely can be felt from the driver seat. If you were closer to California, I would certainly let you find out how Gen 4 feels for comparison.

 

[Paul Hawker]

Brakes are the same, but suspension geometry is changed, and the improved Michelin PS2's stop better than the run flats. My Gen IV stops better than my 03.

At your next VCA club meeting or event ask someone with a Gen IV to give you a ride. You will notice the differences immediately.

Even when parked, just stepping on the clutch and running the shifter through the gears will let you know you are in a different car.

 

[ssjcreeper]

I've often wondered how much the tires contribute to the difference as well. The stock runflats on the Gen III cars are just terrible. One of the best "mods" you can make to a Gen III is changing tires.

 

[PeterMJ]

I've often wondered how much the tires contribute to the difference as well. The stock runflats on the Gen III cars are just terrible. One of the best "mods" you can make to a Gen III is changing tires.

Runflats have very stiff sidewalls and are very heavy, I would say you notice the difference right away. Hopefully nobody has the first generation of tires on their car due to safety reasons, rubber deteriorates with time and even with garage queens, tires should be changed at the minimum every 6-7 years and discarded about ten years from their production date. If the car sits outside a lot, exposed to sunlight a lot, tires will self destruct even much faster. By now, there should not be too many Gen 3 cars using their original tires I hope, regardless of the wear, expired tires can be dangerous.

 

[Sonoman]

One of the things I enjoy most about my Gen 3 is the instantaneous throttle response. It does have a DC tune and a 3.73 Visco-Lok rear end (from a Gen IV), so that accentuates things a bit, but I would miss this kind of throttle response in a drive-by-wire Viper. I do think the upgraded transmission and the dumping of the hydraulic fan were worthwhile improvements for Gen 4. But due to the ECU issues I would rather drive a Gen 3 modded to near Gen 4 specs (but kept naturally aspirated). This is especially true for me since some of the improvements came for free when I purchased the car-- the Corsa exhaust, fresh PS2s, trick rotors, and Gen IV anti-sway bars, came on the car already at the same price as other minty-clean Copperheads. And I don't believe doing mods like an MGW shifter, KW coilovers, dyno tune, added thermal insulation, better speakers, Roe air filters, etc. have done anything but improve the car (with no negative effects to reliability or driveability).

Does the Gen 4 give Gen 3 owners something to shoot for? You bet! But for some of us, gradually doing the upgrades is part of the attraction of owning a just-for-fun vehicle like this. I remember when I was into personal watercraft, I was never on the water twice with the same set of hardware! Mods are part of the game for me, and I'll remove any mod that doesn't benefit the overall package.

BTW, my powerband pulls strongly to the redline with very little apparent flattening-- although the peak HP is lower than a Gen 4 I don't have any issues with the power curve at all on this car.

 

[ssjcreeper]

Yes. I noticed the difference immediately. One of the best mods I've made.

What I've wondered is - of those who've driven a Gen III and Gen IV car and noted a significant differences... was the Gen III car shod with runflats or did it have a more suitable/updated tire? ie.... how much of the feel in the Gen IV is due to tire vs actual geometry changes? I ask this because I've occasionally consider picking up a Gen IV ACR. I'd be interest to know how much different if feels vs my car.

 

[JoelW]

So, ViperWally, I don't know how much you've gained from all this. KBB.com says that a 2008 Convertible with 10000 miles will retail for $67,000. A 2003 retails for $28,000 - mileage not listed. I haven't seen any 2003 selling that low but if that difference existed, you could build a rocketship 2003 for the difference. I put a 3.55 gear in my '03. Roll on acceleration is great and you feel like you have an extra 100 hp. 6th gear is useable. You'll still have this problem with a Gen 4. You will also have drive by wire which is a bit weird - at least to my tastes. Your choice is your choice. I track my car and because most of us can't use 400 hp let alone 500 or 600 and get the most out of the car, I haven't really been intimidated by an extra 100 hp. Yes, maybe that extra horsepower will go by me on a straight but in the corners I don't see a lot of difference. It really comes down to how you drive - as many folks have said. When I'm not on the track and, for most of us, whether in a Gen 1, 2 3, or 4, I really think you'll never notice the difference. But I may upgrade to a Gen 4 when all the "hotshoes" trade in their Gen 4's for Gen 5's and the price goes down. Right now, I've got my car set up the way I like it and that makes me happy. If you can be happy with a stock Gen 4 and don't mind spending the extra $$$, go for it. Either way, you'll still be in a Viper and that's really what it is all about.

 

[swexlin]

Brakes are the same, but suspension geometry is changed, and the improved Michelin PS2's stop better than the run flats. My Gen IV stops better than my 03.

At your next VCA club meeting or event ask someone with a Gen IV to give you a ride. You will notice the differences immediately.

Even when parked, just stepping on the clutch and running the shifter through the gears will let you know you are in a different car.

Thanks Paul, didn't realize about the geometry. However, I switched to PS2s as soon as I bought the car!

 

[swexlin]

Runflats have very stiff sidewalls and are very heavy, I would say you notice the difference right away. Hopefully nobody has the first generation of tires on their car due to safety reasons, rubber deteriorates with time and even with garage queens, tires should be changed at the minimum every 6-7 years and discarded about ten years from their production date. If the car sits outside a lot, exposed to sunlight a lot, tires will self destruct even much faster. By now, there should not be too many Gen 3 cars using their original tires I hope, regardless of the wear, expired tires can be dangerous.

I was at a show this past weekend, and there was a lady with an 04 with 3000 miles on, with the stock ZPs. She wouldn't listen....

 

[swexlin]

So, ViperWally, I don't know how much you've gained from all this. KBB.com says that a 2008 Convertible with 10000 miles will retail for $67,000. A 2003 retails for $28,000 - mileage not listed. I haven't seen any 2003 selling that low but if that difference existed, you could build a rocketship 2003 for the difference. I put a 3.55 gear in my '03. Roll on acceleration is great and you feel like you have an extra 100 hp. 6th gear is useable. You'll still have this problem with a Gen 4. You will also have drive by wire which is a bit weird - at least to my tastes. Your choice is your choice. I track my car and because most of us can't use 400 hp let alone 500 or 600 and get the most out of the car, I haven't really been intimidated by an extra 100 hp. Yes, maybe that extra horsepower will go by me on a straight but in the corners I don't see a lot of difference. It really comes down to how you drive - as many folks have said. When I'm not on the track and, for most of us, whether in a Gen 1, 2 3, or 4, I really think you'll never notice the difference. But I may upgrade to a Gen 4 when all the "hotshoes" trade in their Gen 4's for Gen 5's and the price goes down. Right now, I've got my car set up the way I like it and that makes me happy. If you can be happy with a stock Gen 4 and don't mind spending the extra $$$, go for it. Either way, you'll still be in a Viper and that's really what it is all about.

I couldn'y have said this better myself. As I said in my first post, I can't use my Gen 3 as is: PS2s, Mopar PCM with Mopar Race exhaust, etc. Hell, I can get in trouble quick in my 425 hp SRT8! I just can't justify the cost (nor do I have the extra $$) to upgrade to a Gen 4. It's like haveing a gorgeous woman, already with a D-cup, and trading up to a DD! (Apologies to any ladies present...)