Today's Standing Mile Results for My SRTC

[Bobpantax]

I attended the Mile Marker 1 standing mile event today. I did four runs. The speeds were:

171.051 MPH
169.852 MPH ( wheel hop and hit the rev limiter twice)
171.202 MPH
170.897 MPH

The car was magnificent in first through fourth. When I shifted into fifth, the acceleration dropped so much that the amount of speed added after shifting out of fourth was very disappointing. I thought that the supercharger might help override some of this effect but, if it did, it was not nearly enough. With he 3.07 rear end and the .72 to 1 fifth gear, after fourth the car's potential power is wasted. I am going to try and get a fifth gear change out. I am concerned that if I change out the differential ratio also that first will be almost usless since as it is now, it is an art form to handle first without wheel spin and/or the ass end kicking out a bit. Any suggestions?

To show you the effect of gearing, there was a modded Z06 Vette whose owner said it was running about 570 HP to the rear with a 3.9 rear end and some tranny work. His best run was 184 MPH. The stock ZR1's are running between 178 and 181 MPH. I have more power than both but my gearing just does not cut it after fourth. A bit embarrassing. ( On the other hand, the top speed of the 2008 and 2009 ACR is 177 MPH so I guess, if I put it in that context, I should be happy. But I am not. LOL.)

The people there were great. I look forward to seeing many of them again.

There was a shifter cart with a modded motorcycle engine that ran 182 MPH - INSANE!!!

There were a couple of modded bikes that ran over 200 MPH.

There was one other Viper but I did not speak to the owner and I do not know what he ran. He did not stay too long.

There was a slightly modded Challenger - air intake, exhaust and Diablo tune whose owner said he ran a best of 150 MPH.

I think I may be hooked on this sport. I want to do over 200 MPH. That will take quite a bit more power than I am making. So, I will have to figure out whether I want to mod my current car more or get another toy for this specific purpose and make it into a monster.

 

[Twister]

Honetly Id be pretty dissapointed and headed to a dyno...stockgen3's seem to run in the 159-170 range depeding on conditions ect.

To bad we dont have any other vipers to judge by but if the stock ZR1's were hitting 177 then thats were you should have been...What are your dyno numbers..Any 1/4 mile times?

 

[Shank2117]

Bob honestly those are disappointing numbers, I have a stock Gen 3 with a 3.73 rear, My car has no top end and I ran a 169-171. I was bouncing off the rev limiter at the end of 5th crossing the finish line.

If you have a stock rear end you should have way more top end then me and be at 175-177.

 

[Jroc]

Im not too sure about the mile marker events. Try the next top gun event!

 

[VENOMAHOLIC]

It is entireley possible that your car has a milder tune for street use but could be programmed for a standing mile event by the tuner that supercharged it. You may be getting lean by 5th gear speeds.

 

[plumcrazy]

i know when i finally get around to running a mile event, im going to be hooked bigtime.

glad to hear you had fun !!!

 

[Bobpantax]

The car has the DC Blower tune for a road course. The 3.07 rear does not help. It hurts. All the cars that ran better speeds had 3.55 or higher. The problem, as I said above is also due to the .72 to 1 fifth gear. My speed at the end of fourth is great and many people commented on how quick the car was to that point. ( Keep in mind that the Paxton's sweet zone is above about 3300 RPM and when I shift to fifth, the revs drop like a rock.) It's what happens when I shift into fifth that causes the issue. At the March event, an ACR with the MOPAR controller did 166 MPH. He complained about the same issue. A stock 2009 coupe with the aero package did 165.8. I think the tune is fine. It's all about the gearing. Keep in mind that this is a one mile drag race. The car has plenty left in it and there is no doubt in my mind that with the room, it would exceed 200 MPH. By the way, a modded Z06 had the same issue. He had the stock rear end and the stock tranny. The fifth gear change for 2010, allows the Viper to reach 200 mph 14 seconds faster than its predecessor. I wonder what this means for standing mile results. Does anyone know?

The last dyno of the car, which was in January, produced 685 HP at the rear wheels. Doug Levin was there and witnessed the run along with others. There is a thread about that dyno day. It's not a power issue. On the way to the event this morning, in Mexico, I climbed up the rear end of a modded 383 Camero with a NOS kit.

 

[Bobpantax]

I was giving this a bit more thought. The 2010 fifth gear is .8. How hard would it be to have a .85 or .9 gear made and do any of you know who could do it? So instead of the stock 08 tranny ratios of this: 2.66, 1.78, 1.30, 1.1, .74, .50 with the 3.07 rear end, I would end up with 2.66, 1.78, 1.3, 1.1, and .9 or .85 and .5 with the 3.07 rear end. And, as long as I am changing out fifth, perhaps, I could use the existing fifth as my sixth. Thoughts? Has anyone done something like this?

 

[RTTTTed]

Bob, why not add a Nitrous Kit? With the Nitrous it would take a couple runs to see where you could start using it, but a hundred hp kit would probably add about 150rwhp or more. My Paxton/Nitrous made 802rwhp on the dyno. The increased torque would overcome the 5th gear problem as well. The Ny-trex system comes with a fuel pressure safety switch. You could add a complete fuel system if needed (since you'd only need a 1/4" fuel line for a couple hundred hp).

Big advantage is that the Nitrous doesn't affect anything except trunk space when it's not turned on. You might use the Nitrous a couple times a year? Huge difference for only a couple thousand bucks.

Ted

 

[Bobpantax]

Thanks for the idea RTTTTed but I think that the gearing problem is the issue I need to address. Here are the ratios for the ZR1. The difference in fifth gear ( .81 for the ZR-1 vs. .74 for the Viper= at least prior to 2010) accounts for the fact that the stock ZR1 can reach between 178 and 181 in the standing mile. I know that there is a post or posts about someone who did this gear change for standing mile purposes who had his tranny customized. I need to find those posts.

ZR-1Transmission
close-ratio six-speed manual
Application:
std
Gear ratios 1):

First:
2.29
Second:
1.61
Third:
1.21
Fourth:
1.00
Fifth:
0.81
Sixth:
0.67

 

[plumcrazy]

Bob likes keeping his warranty intact

 

[Viperless]

The car has the DC Blower tune for a road course. The 3.07 rear does not help. It hurts. All the cars that ran better speeds had 3.55 or higher. The problem, as I said above is also due to the .72 to 1 fifth gear. My speed at the end of fourth is great and many people commented on how quick the car was to that point. ( Keep in mind that the Paxton's sweet zone is above about 3300 RPM and when I shift to fifth, the revs drop like a rock.) It's what happens when I shift into fifth that causes the issue. At the March event, an ACR with the MOPAR controller did 166 MPH. He complained about the same issue. A stock 2009 coupe with the aero package did 165.8. I think the tune is fine. It's all about the gearing. Keep in mind that this is a one mile drag race. The car has plenty left in it and there is no doubt in my mind that with the room, it would exceed 200 MPH. By the way, a modded Z06 had the same issue. He had the stock rear end and the stock tranny. The fifth gear change for 2010, allows the Viper to reach 200 mph 14 seconds faster than its predecessor. I wonder what this means for standing mile results. Does anyone know?

The last dyno of the car, which was in January, produced 685 HP at the rear wheels. Doug Levin was there and witnessed the run along with others. There is a thread about that dyno day. It's not a power issue. On the way to the event this morning, in Mexico, I climbed up the rear end of a modded 383 Camero with a NOS kit.

I went 190.0 at the Texas Mile last month. I have no doubt it would have gone low 190's with the 2010 5th gear. The car pulls really nice until 5th gear.

 

[Bobpantax]

How was your speed measured? At your power level with stock gearing, you should have had the same issue when you shifted to fifth at about 165 MPH? 190 in the standing mile at your power level is not possible.

 

[Viperless]

How was your speed measured? At your power level with stock gearing, you should have had the same issue when you shifted to fifth at about 165 MPH? 190 in the standing mile at your power level is not possible.

LOL. It was measured the same way everyone else's was at the Texas Mile.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Bobpantax]

I do not doubt it was measured but by what equipment. That speed is just not physically possible with your mods and a stock tranny in the standing mile. We have an outfit here that ran two events - one last year and one in January where the speeds were all wrong - on the high side. I am not trying to rain on your parade but physics is physics. The result is not possible.

 

[99 R/T 10]

The road course tune might be too consersitive for the mile. I am guessing the car could use more timing thru the RPM range. Also, maybe 3.33 gears would be better than messing with the tranny?

 

[plumcrazy]

im pretty sure Ritchie-srt10 went 175 in his bone stock 09

edit: link for ya... http://forums.viperclub.org/2820013-post9.html

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

I think PhoenixGTS was one of the folks that changed 5th gear. Besides the Corvette, I believe it is Aston Martin that uses the T56 and 1-4 gears are same as Viper; 5-6 are "better."

 

[Viperless]

I do not doubt it was measured but by what equipment. That speed is just not physically possible with your mods and a stock tranny in the standing mile. We have an outfit here that ran two events - one last year and one in January where the speeds were all wrong - on the high side. I am not trying to rain on your parade but physics is physics. The result is not possible.

They have a speed trap set up just like a 1/4 mile dragstrip. I also had my Racepak G2X in the car and the data it recorded comfirms the speed as well. The GPS speed detection of the G2X is accurate to .5 mph. The highest speed it recorded on that run was 191.23. I lifted right after I passed the 1 mile marker.

You wouldn't only be raining on my parade. Eddie Bello ran 236 in Florida and ran 235.6 the same day I went 190 in Texas. An Underground Racing TT Gallardo went 249.3 right after I went 190. That was followed by a Heffner TT Ford GT that went 249.7. After that, the Gallardo came back and went 250.1. I don't think anyone is disputing those figures. Same day same measuring equipment.

Not sure what you're using in your physics calculations but the speed is real.

 

[JBW1997]

Bob, from my experience in racing poor results can come from a combination of things. Just from what I have read here I believe you are on the right track with the 5th gear swap. It is just too steep of a ratio for what you are trying to do. I too would leave the rear end alone. Regarding 6th gear, leave it stock. You are not going to need it in the standing mile. I would also look at your tune. Like it has been said, the road course tune may not be helping you run it out the back door.

BTW, does anyone know where Vipers top out? Gen 1,2,3,4?

 

[Kala]

I would talk to Hugh Hoard... He has a 1997 Viper GTS

Silver State World Record 07 Mile Shoot-Out...
He also went 200 or 202 MPH in one event, cant remember which one.

I bet Hugh would have a clue... Also DC does the work on his car, ask them which tune & gears he runs...

 

[Bobpantax]

1. Ritchie's result is within the range of the possible with a strong engine although he, like many have the controller and/or the headers. Hopefully, he will read this and clarify. The 190 MPH result, if it is the same type of event in Texas, is not within the realm of the possible for the mods listed and the same gearing. 15 MPH more than Ritchie would require much more power than what is stated."The possible" is determined by drag coefficient, weight of vehicle, gearing and power level assuming traction is present.

2. The problem I ran into is definitely due to the fifth gear ratio. The revs drop far below where they need to be to maintain the proper effect of the Paxton. Just look at the ZR-1 ratios and results. The ZR-1 is running 638 HP or more and has a .81 fifth gear ratio. The 2010 Viper has a .8 ratio and gets to 200 MPH fourteen seconds faster. So, what is happening to me is that when I shift to fifth, I am losing my power advantage and there is not enough room left for the revs to get high enough for me to get it back before the end of the mile. I should have realized this immediately because right at the mile mark, before lifting, I noticed the surge start to come back. The fifth and sixth gears of the Viper are referred to by some as Bonneville gearing. Now I know why.

3. The bottom line is that based on the fifth gear reduced rev effect on the Paxton, a strong Gen IV coupe, like Ritchie's, should beat me every time in the standing mile unless I get the problem fixed with a fifth gear change. But through fourth gear, my car is a monster.

 

[RichieSRT10]

Bob I ran 175mph at the Florida Mile in Feb. with my stock 09.


I have no mods done to my car except a short shifter. I always enjoyed tracking cars and I believe most folks have no idea how to even pull short times. My last trip to the 1/4mile I ended up pulling 1.65 short times with street tires(Pirellis).

 

[Bobpantax]

Bob, from my experience in racing poor results can come from a combination of things. Just from what I have read here I believe you are on the right track with the 5th gear swap. It is just too steep of a ratio for what you are trying to do. I too would leave the rear end alone. Regarding 6th gear, leave it stock. You are not going to need it in the standing mile. I would also look at your tune. Like it has been said, the road course tune may not be helping you run it out the back door.

BTW, does anyone know where Vipers top out? Gen 1,2,3,4?

Viper's top out in fifth. I agree with you on the rear end issue. My analysis shows that same would not help and might even hurt. I would get to the top of fourth sooner at a lower speed. Without the fifth gear change out, this would just mean my revs would drop earlier. I do not think that there would be enough room for them to recover and, even if they did, I do not think my speed would end up higher. I also would agree with you regarding your sixth gear comment but I do currently use the fifth gear for highway driving and, if I change it out, I would still like to have the .74 ratio for highway driving so that's why I would like to have that ratio for a sixth gear.

 

[plumcrazy]

After the dust cleared in my bone stock 09 vert I ran 175mph today.

im finding it hard to believe a ~ 540rwhp 09 can beat a paxton car putting down close to 700rwhp, even with that gear. but it does seem to be true

 

[plumcrazy]

are there any half mile stats ? what were you running at that mark ?

 

[Bobpantax]

Bob I ran 175mph at the Florida Mile in Feb. with my stock 09.


I have no mods done to my car except a short shifter. I always enjoyed tracking cars and I believe most folks have no idea how to even pull short times. My last trip to the 1/4mile I ended up pulling 1.65 short times with street tires(Pirellis).

Thanks for posting Ritchie. A few questions:

1. If you recall, what speed were you at when you shifted into fifth and how much did your revs drop?

2. Do you think that 190 MPH in the standing mile is possible with the mods shown to the Gen IV above? My calcs say that it is not assuming the stock gearing. The most he could be running is about 50 to 75 HP more than you. ( He appears to be running about 665 HP.) That's not enough with the stock gearing to get him to 190 MPH. Your thoughts? Keep in mind that Ray's stock ZR-1 with the .81 fifth gear ran 179MPH on march 14. Ray's car, to my knowledge is stock and would, therefore, be running about 638 HP.

 

[Bobpantax]

are there any half mile stats ? what were you running at that mark ?

No. But don't worry Plum. One through four, it's a monster. The fifth gear rev drop kills the effect of the Paxton for a while. When it does, I am not driving a 685 RWHP car. I am driving a temporary dog that happens to be going about 165 MPH when the dog shows up. LOL.

 

[Twister]

im finding it hard to believe a ~ 540rwhp 09 can beat a paxton car putting down close to 700rwhp, even with that gear. but it does seem to be true

and heres where the fact that I love math comes into play..

First and formost your average stock 550 rwhp gen 4 is trapping 127-130 mph on average..

your average 650 rwhp paxton is trapping 129-132 mph on average..

They are much closer than what people think....Where the gen3 is producing a 100 more rwhp in the 4500-6000 rpm range..Then gen4 is producing 100 more HP in the 3000-4500 rpm range...

Your rpm's are gonna pull a lil slower from 4500-6000 rpm's verses 3000-4500 rpm's and this is why the paxton is a lil faster than the stock gen4 in the 1/4 mile...

But we are not talking 1/4 mile..We are talking mile..

At aproximately 160 mph when you make that 4th to 5th gear change...Your rpm's are gonna drop like a rock..We all know 5th gear is made for the sole purpose of gas mileage...

So when your rpm's are low and lazy like this in 5th gear...guess what????The paxton counts for nothing...I have a paxton on my nsx and anything before 4500 rpm's you cant even tell the car is supercharged..But from 5000-8000 she screams..


on the other hand that naturally asperated 550 rwhp stock gen4 is gonna be makeing that addittional 100 rwhp over the paxtoned gen3 at 3000 rpm's and this is why in the mile the stock gen4 will be close or dare I say it even faster than the paxtoned gen3...


650 plus rwhp sounds kool and all...But if you dont start feeling that power till 4000 rpm...It is what it is...gen4 or NA built gen3 all the way for me..

 

[TrackAire]

Bob,

I thought Viperless was running a 3.55 rear ratio (maybe I'm wrong, he can confirm).

That would help overcome the 5th gear issue a little. With 3.55's and a modded 5th gear, I'd think your hp would put you at 190 no problem.

Also, it is hard to compare speeds from different dates and locations. Track conditions and weather plays a big effect on high hp cars. My buddy did the fall Texas mile in his Ford GT and the temps killed his speed.

I think the standing mile is going to be a very popular motorsports event, we finally had our first one on the West Coast last month in Mojave, Calif.

Good luck on your next event, I do think that if you're doing 5th gear you might as well make 6th gear usable too. 5th gear will have a dramatic effect to your acceleration goals.

Cheers,
George