Told ya...

[HobokenViper]

Are those really fair expectations. Last year of Viper was 2010, so even the newest prior model is 3yrs old. You don't expect it to drop in value over 30k in that timeframe? For me, if diff was 30k, would do an a heartbeat. heck would do for 40k in a heartbeat. Of course for even money or up to $20k difference, folks would do it as that would be a crazy good deal. You can easily get into a GenV for 95-110k right now. plenty out their in that price range, so I don't grock the price statement. Lets not constantly use the 140k price point as the starting point as that is the on very high-end.

btw, add 100hp to the car with the same prices and suspect you will get very similar results and here is the reason:
1) >50% of prior Viper owners have converts- so they don't have a new car option
2) 10%? of prior owners have ACR's - so would be waiting for a ACR and don't have an option
3) ~40% prior viper owners have Coupes - really the only true prior owner target for the car, but yes you have to pay money to get it. Would +100hp solve that issue? I don't think so, but who knows.

So, when you look at this, it comes down to one thing, you need to get new buyers. Majority of new buyers in this price range are not looking for a manual, but instead paddle shifters. Quite simple really. Put in an 8sp auto and watch you sales rate double over night.

As much as it pains me to say it, I agree with your statement about the paddle shifters adding tons of buyers in this price segment. Most buyers of comparably priced Supercars buy competitors with automatics with paddle shifters. Now I agree that the Viper is by far best driven with a manual, but in order to raise sales, this may be a necessary option to add. The big question here is would the cost of developing and rolling out such an option make sense on such a low production car to begin with? Not sure the dollars and cents would all add up as a real business case.

I also do believe that price is a huge factor as I mentioned before. Could I afford to possibly pick up a new Gen V now? Yes, but it might land me in divorce court if I did. Finally convinced my wife to let me get my current Gen IV last year, which I'm entirely in love with and have no plans to ever sell. Combine that with just buying a big new house with lots of new expenses, a 2 year old child at home with another one likely on the way sometime in 2014, and hardly enough time to even enjoy my current Viper, and there's no way I could pull it off right now. I love the Gen V and think it's by far the best Viper ever, but need at least a few years to make it a reality.

I know there are several other people in a similar situation to me, but I have to admit that for the new GTS price range all loaded up, I would be very torn between a new Viper and some other options that I've also always dreamed of owning, such as a Ford GT, a used Lambo Gallardo Spyder or a Murcielago, or a used Ferrari F430 variant. Had it been closer to the pricing of the previous Gen IV's fully loaded up, it would be a no brainer, and I might even be able to justify adding one to the budding stable sooner rather than later, but that's not the case. But because of the huge premiums on the new Viper, many previous owners are denied the barrier of entry as it is just over what they might be willing to pay.....

With all that said, the Gen V is the perfect combination of style, features, classic design, speed, handling, and exclusivity. Sick of all the naysayers constantly saying that it wasn't a large enough leap forward in the performance division. An ACR is a track built car, where the new Gen V definitely beats the outgoing non-ACR model, but the new TA and future ACR model will and are even better track cars than the Gen IV ACR. I can't wait to see what the new Vert will look like, but being a Gen IV vert owner, I'm certainly not tied to a vert, and actually would prefer to get a new GTS with a hard roof as a nice change. And most of us cannot and will not ever drive the Viper to its limits anyway, so much of the whining and complaining seems like just that to me, just guys who want the most bragging rights when a ZR1 rolls up next to them and feel like they have to prove their balls are bigger than the other guys'. I for one have nothing to prove, and I'm just content owning my beast and love that its still the last true brutal drivers car where you are fully in control of the car, rather than driving a moving video game.

 

[HobokenViper]

And one more thing.......

When I joined the VCA a little over a year ago, I was so excited to be a part of the Viper community. I had been reading all the great posts on here and saw that there were so many helpful people and threads, with mostly everyone being very friendly and helpful. For me, it was just another great perk that came along with Viper ownership.

Since all the turmoil the past few months, this has become an overly negative place with very little monitoring, full of trolls derailing soooo many otherwise good threads (especially Gen V threads), far too many whining complainers, and very little in the way of new helpful or enjoyable threads to read. It's even become a really quiet place aside from the multitude of repetitive negative threads like this that all essentially all start and end the same way, and it's becoming a very dull if even maddening place to be a member and visitor of. And all the political rants thrown into random locations in threads blow my mind too. Never thought I'd say this, but aside from the great local people I've met on here, and the annual car raffle, I'm not so certain I will be renewing my membership another year. This place just isn't the fun place that it used to be even just a year ago.......

 

[VENOM V]

I hear you Hoboken. Well said.

My Camaro forum does not have this cancer. Just a bunch of car guys having fun and talking cars.

I don't know why this Viper forums attracts such a high ratio of social rejects and losers. Also a bunch of authentic car guys like us, but seriously. This place is like a losers' lounge much of the time.

 

[kennyhemi]

What corvettes? The plain jane cheap looking plastic cookie cutter version! Ok I agree with you on that! Those cars don't hold a candle to any of the V generations of vipers. I'm talking the ZR1 and ZR1 only as that"s what the ZR1 was built (to compete with the viper) as a matter of fact the corvettes were all slow pigs until the Z06 came out in 2006. The only ones that we're descent were the mid to late sixties Vettes and only to some degree as I used to leave them like they were chained to a telephone pole with my Hemi powered machines of the same era. The last time I checked a lot of the ZR1 are still sitting on the lots almost two years now! If you want one. Let me know a chevy dealer here in south florida has four the can't sell...but they sure move those cheap girly version corvettes all day long. I would rather see the viper go out of production before getting watered down like that. As my old man told me when I was a little " it ain't special if every one has one" and that's has never been so true when comparing the Corvette to the Viper.

 

[05Commemorative]

Agree, well said. I find myself now going to the other site just as much and amazing the tone is completely different over there (like the old days). Its just a matter of time and this site will be crickets. (crickets that lead with post that say "I told ya") Saw it coming and did not renew this past year. A shame really.

 

[05Commemorative]

What corvettes? The plain jane cheap looking plastic cookie cutter version! Ok I agree with you on that! Those cars don't hold a candle to any of the V generations of vipers. I'm talking the ZR1 and ZR1 only as that"s what the ZR1 was built (to compete with the viper) as a matter of fact the corvettes were all slow pigs until the Z06 came out in 2006. The only ones that we're descent were the mid to late sixties Vettes and only to some degree as I used to leave them like they were chained to a telephone pole with my Hemi powered machines of the same era. The last time I checked a lot of the ZR1 are still sitting on the lots almost two years now! If you want one. Let me know a chevy dealer here in south florida has four the can't sell...but they sure move those cheap girly version corvettes all day long. I would rather see the viper go out of production before getting watered down like that. As my old man told me when I was a little " it ain't special if every one has one" and that's has never been so true when comparing the Corvette to the Viper.

what or whose comment are you referring to? I must have missed the "watered down" comment somewhere.

 

[Bobpantax]

Every car site goes through its ups and downs. This site and the VCA endured months of attacks by many now posting on the other site. It will return to normal and be just as much, if not more fun, than it was before. It will just take a bit of time.

The VCA is bigger than the individuals passing through its leadership. It is an important institution which houses much of the history of the Viper in the years of posts contained in its forums and the physical history of the Viper being stored by VPA which was provided by Chrysler.

The new site and the idea of the new club are still novel. They are both in a honeymoon phase. Viper owners tend to be independent mavericks. It is only a matter of time before the honeymoon glow fades and that site will also have its ups and downs.

Agree, well said. I find myself now going to the other site just as much and amazing the tone is completely different over there (like the old days). Its just a matter of time and this site will be crickets. (crickets that lead with post that say "I told ya") Saw it coming and did not renew this past year. A shame really.

 

[kennyhemi]

So explain why the corvettes are leaving the lots in record numbers?! Wha... What?! Don't have a response? Doh!

Let's try this again ........
What corvettes? The plain jane cheap looking plastic cookie cutter version! Ok I agree with you on that! Those cars don't hold a candle to any of the V generations of vipers. I'm talking the ZR1 and ZR1 only as that"s what the ZR1 was built (to compete with the viper) as a matter of fact the corvettes were all slow pigs until the Z06 came out in 2006. The only ones that we're descent were the mid to late sixties Vettes and only to some degree as I used to leave them like they were chained to a telephone pole with my Hemi powered machines of the same era. The last time I checked a lot of the ZR1 are still sitting on the lots almost two years now! If you want one. Let me know a chevy dealer here in south florida has four they can't sell...but they sure move those cheap girly version corvettes all day long. I would rather see the viper go out of production before getting watered down like that. As my old man told me when I was a little " it ain't special if every one has one" and that's has never been so true when comparing the Corvette to the Viper.

 

[05Commemorative]

Every car site goes through its ups and downs. This site and the VCA endured months of attacks by many now posting on the other site. It will return to normal and be just as much, if not more fun, than it was before. It will just take a bit of time.

The VCA is bigger than the individuals passing through its leadership. It is an important institution which houses much of the history of the Viper in the years of posts contained in its forums and the physical history of the Viper being stored by VPA which was provided by Chrysler.

The new site and the idea of the new club are still novel. They are both in a honeymoon phase. Viper owners tend to be independent mavericks. It is only a matter of time before the honeymoon glow fades and that site will also have its ups and downs.

Bob, I appreciate the optimism, but not sure you realize how bad it is. I have friends that are viper owners, never involved in the club, barely check the forums and yet they know the dirty laundry of the club. In short, they have no respect for it any longer. Then to follow it up, they come to the site and see 1 of every 3 posts is very negative. Then to make it worse, you have some that would rather see the viper die than change and to top it off, you have folks sharing their political views... How is a Viper forum, that is supposed to be about the joy of the car a place for these types of things? I am all for free speech, but if to the detriment of the core audience you want to keep, you have a problem. This specific thread should highlight that for you. You can be optimistic and hope all gets better. Maybe you are right or maybe you are turning off the core members you want to keep to help fund this. Problem is now another valid option exists.

 

[Bobpantax]

Over my thirteen years posting here I have seen a number of ups and downs and times when, for whatever reason, posts slowed down.

There is a political subforum under a non Viper subject matter sub forum. It is a fun place to debate for many of us. Take a look at the debates in 2008 and 2012. I like the fact that there are non car subforums. There are engineers, pilots, machinists, mechanics, doctors, lawyers, IT people, accountants, business people of all sorts, etc. posting. It is very interesting to read of their views on many subjects - not just the Viper.

One of the main gripes against this Forum and the VCA by those who complained was too much censorship. I do not think that that much censorship will ever be allowed again. But the rules regarding cussing and personal attacks are being enforced although less strictly than before.

As the other site evolves and we get closer to the 2014 elections, don't be surprised if you start to see a debate over there also.

Bottom line, reasonable people know that the VCA is an institution and it is bigger than the leaders who pass through it. Can you or anyone else remember all the names of the past VCA Presidents or any other officers or directors without doing a bunch of research? No. Why? Because they are not what is important. Bad decisions and those who made them tend to fade with time.

The memories from 12 VOIs, the "End of the Line" event, the Viper vs Viper events at the Air Force base, the Gen V Viper reveal in NY which the VCA was a big part of, the input of VCA members into the Gen II, Gen III, Gen IV and Gen V Viper and many more events and the comradery generated by all of same among many located all over the country and the world; and, the physical history stored by VPA are what is important. For awhile, some forgot about all of the good that has been accomplished and minimized it. As I posted before, I am not one to abandon a good institution because of the acts of a few that passed through it. People need to realize that and put the acts of the few in a proper historical context and move forward.

And this just posted by Paul Hawker in another thread. It is history that is not well known and very underappreciated.

It used to be that the VOI's were put on by Chrysler. VCA members were given first dibs, but after they had a chance to select the hotels etc, it was opened up for all owners. (Hence Viper OWNERS Invitational)

When Chrysler was looking at bankruptcy they began to try to sell off the Viper line and the Conner Assembly plant. They let VCA know that they were on their own, and needed to become an independant club, and could count on no financial support from the manufacturer.

VCA has been on their own ever since. J.R. Thompson, who had been doing all the organizational and back office support presented a tremendous bill to VCA that could not be afforded by the club. Cool funding also went away as Dodge was no longer making Vipers and the assembly line went dark for month after month. The entire 07 production was terminated. Viper essentially was on the verge of extinction.

The club reorganized and continued to support the Marque. VOI's were put on by the club alone, and it had to become self sustaining. Dodge gave the VCA most of the tooling they were using to produce Viper parts, so the current owners could be assured of parts for their cars in the future. With promotional funds evaporating Dodge wanted this equipment to become the property of the Club and not fall into the hands of which ever company would be buying up the company.

The next VOI's turned out to be very successful. Venues such as Detroit, St. Louis, and Salt Lake City were chosen to keep the Venue costs down, but still offer lots of track time, and a local driving day through the country sides.

The new VCA might decide to only allow their members to attend, or offer them a significant discount with non members paying more. It will be mostly up to the new officers that will be elected in 2014.

While I have heard they are working on some pretty cool things, I have no way of knowing how many people they will have space for. Again, I would suspect that members would have first dibs.

 

[Twister]

Someone was talkibg about paddle shifted autos up above.

Interestingly I just took out a loan to purchase a 2009 audi r8.

Honestly I think the genV will turn more heads.

Hobestly 640 hp will smoke a 420 hp car.

Honestly the genV has a nicer interior.

So why am I getting a r8 instead of my fourth viper?

I want experience paddle shifters and awd with an engine under the rear glass.

The vipers have a LOT more competition in 2013 than they did in 2003. Back in 2003 I couldn't think of any car nearly as awesome as the 510 hp srt till the 04 gallardo 05 fgt and 06 z06 came out. Even then the viper had its own 85k segment.

Nowadays there's lots of kool cars that compete with the viper. Once your considering a 110k viper why not a 130k whatever.

Dollar for dollar its still the baddest car on the planet imho. But slow sales have nothing to do with the viper not being amazing. It truly is. Theres just a lot to choose from.

 

[TrackAire]

Someone was talkibg about paddle shifted autos up above.

Interestingly I just took out a loan to purchase a 2009 audi r8.

Honestly I think the genV will turn more heads.

Hobestly 640 hp will smoke a 420 hp car.

Honestly the genV has a nicer interior.

So why am I getting a r8 instead of my fourth viper?

I want experience paddle shifters and awd with an engine under the rear glass.

The vipers have a LOT more competition in 2013 than they did in 2003. Back in 2003 I couldn't think of any car nearly as awesome as the 510 hp srt till the 04 gallardo 05 fgt and 06 z06 came out. Even then the viper had its own 85k segment.

Nowadays there's lots of kool cars that compete with the viper. Once your considering a 110k viper why not a 130k whatever.

Dollar for dollar its still the baddest car on the planet imho. But slow sales have nothing to do with the viper not being amazing. It truly is. Theres just a lot to choose from.

If you're still on the island, the R8 makes even more sense because it would be much more useful and enjoyable in sudden downpours. Although the Viper is one of my favorite looking cars, I don't know if it would be my first choice where you live. Many prefer the R8 over the V10 version claiming it is better balanced. I have not driven either version so you'll have to let us know what you think after you get some miles on it. The car still looks very exotic and you don't see one on every corner...enjoy the new ride.

George

 

[PDCjonny]

Someone was talkibg about paddle shifted autos up above.

Interestingly I just took out a loan to purchase a 2009 audi r8.

Honestly I think the genV will turn more heads.

Hobestly 640 hp will smoke a 420 hp car.

Honestly the genV has a nicer interior.

So why am I getting a r8 instead of my fourth viper?

I want experience paddle shifters and awd with an engine under the rear glass.

The vipers have a LOT more competition in 2013 than they did in 2003. Back in 2003 I couldn't think of any car nearly as awesome as the 510 hp srt till the 04 gallardo 05 fgt and 06 z06 came out. Even then the viper had its own 85k segment.

Nowadays there's lots of kool cars that compete with the viper. Once your considering a 110k viper why not a 130k whatever.

Dollar for dollar its still the baddest car on the planet imho. But slow sales have nothing to do with the viper not being amazing. It truly is. Theres just a lot to choose from.

This is what so many guys just don't understand, why someone would pick an old slow R8 over a new Viper at the same price point roughly.
Straight line speed and track capability are just a part of the ownership equation. And to some a very small part.
The R8 has sex appeal, rarity and looks very exotic. Mid/rear engine cars under glass define exotic.
Paddle shifters are fun. AWD is fun.
Audi's have a reputation for very high build quality whether its true or perceived.
Good luck with it. (Although you're nuts getting the V8 version)

 

[ferraritoviper]

You can afford a Pagani, F40, F50, Enzo, La Ferrari, Koenigsegg, Bugatti, F1, P1, Carerra GT, 998 and you have never owned any of them!!!??? And when you say afford I assume you mean paid in cash without feeling a thing. That's impressive restraint I must say...unless you are in a very capital intensive business.

Why would you make such a stupid unrelated comment?

Who said I never owned or leased any of them. My reference to choosing G5 Viper...was this time around. Further you conveniently left out the reason why I chose the G5 in your quote, which obviously precludes the rides you mention.

As for paying in cash, that's a non starter. Keep in mind, money always makes more money! Keep in mind also, that ones bank accounts do not necessarilty reflect on ones lifestyle...except maybe in Texas, everything is big there, or so the story goes.

 

[ViperSmith]

This is what so many guys just don't understand, why someone would pick an old slow R8 over a new Viper at the same price point roughly.
Straight line speed and track capability are just a part of the ownership equation. And to some a very small part.
The R8 has sex appeal, rarity and looks very exotic. Mid/rear engine cars under glass define exotic.
Paddle shifters are fun. AWD is fun.
Audi's have a reputation for very high build quality whether its true or perceived.
Good luck with it. (Although you're nuts getting the V8 version)

Out of my own curiousity would you have considered the V instead of your Lambo if it had DCT?

 

[PDCjonny]

Out of my own curiousity would you have considered the V instead of your Lambo if it had DCT?

Personally no I wouldn't if it had DCT and 80000000HP.
I've had four Vipers including two new Gen 4 ACR's.
Dodge has received over 200K from me, I've done more than my share.

Wanted to experience something new and different.
Simple as that.

 

[Vooodoo ACR]

Someone was talkibg about paddle shifted autos up above.

Interestingly I just took out a loan to purchase a 2009 audi r8.

Honestly I think the genV will turn more heads.

Hobestly 640 hp will smoke a 420 hp car.

Honestly the genV has a nicer interior.

So why am I getting a r8 instead of my fourth viper?

I want experience paddle shifters and awd with an engine under the rear glass.

The vipers have a LOT more competition in 2013 than they did in 2003. Back in 2003 I couldn't think of any car nearly as awesome as the 510 hp srt till the 04 gallardo 05 fgt and 06 z06 came out. Even then the viper had its own 85k segment.

Nowadays there's lots of kool cars that compete with the viper. Once your considering a 110k viper why not a 130k whatever.

Dollar for dollar its still the baddest car on the planet imho. But slow sales have nothing to do with the viper not being amazing. It truly is. Theres just a lot to choose from.

I had a 2011 R8 V10 with the gated manual and loved it. I'm just chiming in because you're wanting to experience a car with "paddles", but the R8 you're buying with the R-tronic transmission consistently gets the worst reviews. Audi's new S-tronic transmission is one of the best, but the '14 R8's still demand a high price. If you've test driven and enjoy the feel of the R-tronic you've made a good choice... some owners say they were able to learn to make it shift smooth.

 

[ViperSmith]

Personally no I wouldn't if it had DCT and 80000000HP.
I've had four Vipers including two new Gen 4 ACR's.
Dodge has received over 200K from me, I've done more than my share.

Wanted to experience something new and different.
Simple as that.

Just curious thats all

I hope McLaren rolls out the "Mini Mac" as projected - that will be hot for $120k

 

[georgethedog]

The performance is fine IMO. Could I afford one = yes. Will I buy one = no. Why = the looks just do not jump out "exotic" to me. It looks dated, again, to me. The front is not very attractive, again, to me. However, I think there are more "to me's" out there than just me and I think that is a contributing factor. SRT wanted to make the car appeal to a wider market, but they got the styling ideas from Viper people who love the Gen 1 & 2. Quite simply, that was the mistake. They should have tuned out the noise and designed a supercar with supercar looks.

Oh, one more thing (sorry...), many of the Gen 1 & 2 people that were wanting that style back love the roadster look and that is not what they got so many of them are not even pleased. I really do think it is a styling thing over a performance issue.

 

[Twister]

I don't see any issues with the styling. It looks sinister. But that's me.

I personally can't think of one fault with the genV.

Maybe I'm just viper loyal and don't see clearly anymore?

 

[georgethedog]

I don't see any issues with the styling. It looks sinister. But that's me.

I personally can't think of one fault with the genV.

Maybe I'm just viper loyal and don't see clearly anymore?

Hi Twister. Yea, I think you are too loyal and can't see clearly. Just kidding. But really, it is just missing something... It just seems too bland for an exotic car to me. I guess after the Gen IV ACR it looks like a step back in the "Wow" effect.

 

[mikesax]

Different strokes for different folks!! Having the luxury of having owned a good percentage of the cars often mentioned as alternatives to the Viper- none of them measure up to the Viper in my book!
Who knows-maybe like ViperJon someday I will want to experience something different-but having ordered my second Gen V- a 2014- I see myself as EXTREMELY content with what I consider the most
COMPLETELY EXHILARATING mode of transportation available!! The looks, the sound, the feel of the manual, the interior, and all the other attributes of the car STIR my SOUL every time I get behind the wheel!!
All of the high end exotics offer AMAZING performance-I'm just a Viper NUT- good for me!! I'm not negative about ANYONES choice-most of the people on this forum are probably more experienced than me
when it comes to tracking and the knowledge of what makes a car perform SLIGHTLY better than another-it just BLOWS my mind how NEGATIVE some people are!!!!!! Im just PISSED its cold and raining and
I can't drive my Viper home from work-its a truck day unfortunately!! Happy Holidays to all!!!!

 

[Viperlover]

You buy a viper because you want a viper. It might not be faster than everything out there right out of the box. It's gonna be okay. Breath.

 

[VENOM V]

Hi Twister. Yea, I think you are too loyal and can't see clearly. Just kidding. But really, it is just missing something... It just seems too bland for an exotic car to me. I guess after the Gen IV ACR it looks like a step back in the "Wow" effect.

Yep, to each his own. I am really surprised that you could call the Gen V bland or lacking wow effect. Bland, really? Seriously? Those are the last words that I would use to describe any Viper gen, let alone the Gen V. It doesn't have a giant wing on the back like an ACR, but honestly that's a little different don't you think? Do you also think the non-ACR versions of other generations lack the wow effect?

If you don't like the Gen V, just don't buy it. This is not directed at you specifically, George. Just all the people that have felt the need to rant about the Gen V for about a year now. We get it. There are those that don't like the Gen V. Free country, just buy another car.

 

[Free2go]

Was it Enzo Ferrari who said "Horsepower sells cars, but torque wins races"? The Viper just needed more ponies to move it off the showroom floor. I've grown to admire the Gen 5 over the last few months...and the black on black ones with the black Sidewinder wheels look pretty damn good to me. Lower it a little bit, upgrade the brakes and voila. There is one thing I truly wish I could change about the whole situation and that is Viper being owned by Fiat.

 

[Free2go]

Oh, and hope everyone has a good Thanksgiving...

 

[Twister]

As I mentioned my buddy who has had just about every car their is and currently owns an Aventador and masarati and a z06......went ape **** over the genV.

He saw one at a dealership and had to take a good 15 minutes telling me how beautiful the yellow with black stripes is.

This guy owns a freaken Aventador. When I asked if it compared to his aventador visually he exclaimed a hell yea it looks very wide low and exotic and real life. Maybey not quite as edgy as his lambo but it looks exotic in a meaner way.

Ive yet to see a genV in real life but my buddy rarely gets excited over any cars other than twin turbo lambos and now hes buying a genV.

To me atleaste....it speaks volumes when an aventador owner lust after a 120k car.

Srt hit the mark in my book

 

[PeerBlock]

And no, I'm not gloating. But I was right about the Gen 5 Viper when the stats came out, and I wrote that article, The Death of the Viper. And of course I was vilified in here, which is really what I expected.

The Viper never really died. Chrysler wisely chose the economic downturn to stop offering the viper so they could redesign and improve it, releasing it again at a time when it would have a better opportunity to sell.

But its the truth. No one outside of Viper World is really excited about a new Viper that runs mid 3's zero to 60 and mid 11's in the 1/4 mile. Say all you want about the car, 'its more Viperish" (whatever that means), its exotic, its not a Vette. None of that makes a craps worth of difference to most sports car enthusiasts, especially those willing to pay $120,000 or more for a car with mediocre performance stats. SRT had to make a special version, the Time Attack, to beat the OUTGOING Zr-1 in a head to head road test.

Actually, it does. If I'm paying 6 figures for a car, I don't want it to be offered in trim levels at less then half the price which look nearly identical. The highly subjective comparisons performed by idiots at MT have like zero credibility and bringing them up makes you look clueless. Go ahead and buy the old ZR1 or the new version - after I smoke your lame-ass vette I'll bang your wife/gf/sister because she'll be a lot more interested in the dude with a Viper than the beta male who bought a vette to drive to his weekly manscaping appointments.

That's improvement? No, its not. Its really kinda sad. Had GM designed a Vette to compete with the outgoing Gen 4 Viper we would have laughed them off the track, but that is exactly what SRT did with the Gen 5 Viper according to Ralph Gilles in an interview where he said "we had a Zr-1 and we used it as a measure", and I am somewhat paraphrasing, but that is the gist of what he said.

The comfortable, **** gen 5 GTS is substantially better than preceeding Vipers in any imaginable category - this includes besting the performance of ACRs with wings and stuff. I haven't seen any tests that show the ZR-1 is substantially better to a point where the race between it and a Viper would not be more about the drivers than the cars. Considering that SRT did not have millions of dollars in taxpayer handouts to bankroll the development of the gen 5, I'd say they did better than GM - which has vastly more resources and a large overall budget to work with.

The performance expectations for the new C7 Z06 or ZR1 is also skewed. Gains are not linear in performance; they follow a steep diminishing returns rule (a rule that is further exasperated when the underlying platform is subject to design restrictions as street-legal cars are) - the existing ZR1 barely beat the viper and adding an extra 100 HP to the new one isn't going to put it over the top - it may give it a slight edge...that is until SRT releases a Gen 5 ACR...

If you want a real-world example of these diminishing returns in action, watch the Viper vs the $300K SLS AMG Black Edition. The AMG, despite having all of the tech goodies so many people here seem to think the viper needs including full aero, ceramic brakes, DCT trans and such, only managed to beat the viper by a few tenths...and those few tenths could easily be chalked up to the driver (who missed a shift in the viper).

With GM making their lowly $50K stingray perform as well as it does, it is going to have to make the Z06 and ZR1 a lot better to avoid having the stingray cannibalize their lineup. If you are expecting to see a huge gap in improved performance between the vette models you are going to be disappointed.

SRT Viper sales are down...way down. And I dont care how many special chrome-colored Anondized editions SRT makes, unless and until a 750-800 hp version of this car is made available off the showroom floor and not just in the tuner market, I said it last spring and I will say it again.....and it doesnt matter how many dealerships Ralph visits and takes Gen 5 cars around to let people drive...without that extra 100-150 hp....

The car is not the problem. It's poor executive decisions made by SRT that are costing them sales - mainly, a lack of advertising. Many people don't even know the new viper exists.

This Viper is doomed.

If it fails it won't be because the car itself isn't one of the most awesome things on four wheels that money can buy...it will fail due to relative obscurity it suffers by SRT not investing in advertising.

 

[Free2go]

"Actually, it does. If I'm paying 6 figures for a car, I don't want it to be offered in trim levels at less then half the price which look nearly identical. The highly subjective comparisons performed by idiots at MT have like zero credibility and bringing them up makes you look clueless. Go ahead and buy the old ZR1 or the new version - after I smoke your lame-ass vette I'll bang your wife/gf/sister because she'll be a lot more interested in the dude with a Viper than the beta male who bought a vette to drive to his weekly manscaping appointments."

Bwaaaaaaahahahahahahahaha! This thread just got real...

 

[ACRsnake]

i love my Gen 4 ACR , specially after i ditched the Mich SC tires !! I absolutely love it to death and will probably keep it forever .But i was getting another car so i ordered a porsche 991 TTS just to try something different .(next week delivery!)
Will i get another snake , hell yes !!!and sooner than my wife thinks too ! )

I love the new Gen 5 , the looks , interior and the quality !! Hey all you Gen 5 owners , enjoy them to the max ....you have some very very nice cars !!!!