Too much body roll on track

[Schulmann]

With

I am doing about 5-7 lapping days per year with my Viper.
I want to reduce the body roll of my Viper.

JonB suggested me to go with a set of Koni shocks. This is what I was thinking about. However the roads are very bad in Canada. How stiff are these Koni shocks on bad road ?

I still want my wife to come with me to Viper Club events. But if the shocks get too stiff I will have to upgrade her bra too I am not sure she will drive down with me to Salt Lake City if the shock are stiff.

Another guy who had "bra" problems suggested me to upgrade the swaybars. What options do we have in the swaybar deparment ?

Can I improve something with a little alignment ?

 

[Leslie]

yeh I have the koni shocks/eibach springs, but I noticed the biggest difference in roll when I put the swaybars on.

I personally like a stiff ride but hey I understand, women are kinda funny about that haha.

 

[slysnake]

OH! That wing on the vert behind you. eeeeek

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Stiffer sway bars will make the ride MUCH worse if you have bad roads especially. You need a good shock set up like the Moton Clubsports and stiffer springs. The ride will actually IMPROVE dramatically with this set up also and you can change ride height, rake and corner weight. These will absolutely transform your car into all that it sounds like you need.

 

[j-rho]

Stiffer shocks won't change how much the car rolls, only how fast it rolls.

Improving your alignment should increase the available grip, which will increase the amount of body roll.

The only ways to decrease body roll:
Increase roll stiffness via stiffer springs and/or swaybars
Drive slower (Yeah right! )

Generally, increasing spring rate decreases street comfort, though in the Viper's case this can be mitigated a lot with different shock valving, as the rear shocks are valved quite stiff from the factory. Once shocks are sorted, in general, sway bars have less of an impact on ride quality per unit of increased roll stiffness, as they have essentially no effect on 2-wheel bumps.

 

[ACR steve]

Alignment itself will make a huge difference. Leave the suspension alone and get a more aggressive alignment. The increased negative camber up front will be huge on the track. Don't go race alignment but somewhere in between.

 

[fireball]

What makes you say it rolls too much? It looks right to me.

Shocks (except coil overs) will not change the amount of roll. I'd start with a stiffer sway bar - both front and rear. Then I'd spend some time fixing the balance that changed when I changed the sway bars. The next step is stiffer springs and they should be paired with shocks that can control the stiffer spring rate.

Lowering the car will also change the amount of roll. You typically lower the car with shorter springs but you could even use longer springs that are softer (don't do this though). Shorter springs typically have a higher spring rate too.

It's a big pandora's box you're opening. There are benefits but you might spend an entire season just getting things working right once you make a big change. If you're going to geta new set-up I'd suggest buying a kit that's been sorted out by one of the site sponsors you see here. You'll save a lot of time an effort.

Remember though - there is an offset. It's a balance of $'s, ride and handling. Dodge did a pretty good job for a car that's also driven on the street. It can be beat though!

Greg

 

[JonB]

CORRECTION! Please re-read my email..... I did not suggest Konis for your SRT10. Unless I forgot my own advise THE YEAR MATTERS I am confident I suggested KWs.
I think I also mentioned the inflexible RUNFLAT tires, that promote body roll....

I did / do suggest some options: Simply lowering the CG will result in less body roll. Spring Caps and/or Eibachs. And the KWs (or Motons) lower the car and you can also choose stiffer springs.

I am pretty certain I DID NOT say Konis.....but suggested to LOWER THE CG.....consider springs, and dump runflats.

LATE EDIT: My emails typo d the KW shocks as KN........ my typo

 

[Schulmann]

hanks Jon for the feed back I prefect you got your thoughts.

I just found this very good thread:

http://forums.viperclub.org/performance-modifications/618780-those-interested-kw-shocks.html

 

[SilveRT8]

hanks Jon for the feed back I prefect you got your thoughts.

I just found this very good thread:

http://forums.viperclub.org/performance-modifications/618780-those-interested-kw-shocks.html

I just got a set of KW2 from JonB, will install in the spring. Height and rebound adjustable, set-it and forget.

 

[Leslie]

just another added thought...I have noticed the more I perfect my car for the track, the more I give up comfort on the street. I don't know if others have noticed that as well.

like someone else mentioned above, it's a balancing act.

I am with ya' on the track thing, I go a bit more than you so I have my car set up more for my preference at the 2 tracks I go to the most, it's street comfort is 2nd to me.

 

[Boxer12]

Let me make a suggestion...get a racing seat FIRST (if you haven't already). Its the cheapest, simplest and best way to get better 'feel' in the driver's seat, without the body (yours) movement that you get with the OEM seats. You will not regret it, then go from there. jmo

 

[Detlef]

Sports bra for the women

 

[Schulmann]

Claude tu me reconteras tes modifications secretes chez Benoit la semaine prochaine

 

[Viper X]

"Stiffer sway bars will make the ride MUCH worse if you have bad roads especially. You need a good shock set up like the Moton Clubsports and stiffer springs. The ride will actually IMPROVE dramatically with this set up also and you can change ride height, rake and corner weight. These will absolutely transform your car into all that it sounds like you need."

Schulman,

Been down this road with 4 different Vipers now. Finally bought an ACR for the track and drive the SRT-10 coupe on trips (with Moton Club Sports and 500 / 800 lb springs). Listen to Mark on this, he is right on.

Stiffer sway bars, like those from the CC are available but will make your ride quality much worse on the street. I have tried them.

Stiffer springs (than OE) will help with Motons and the adjustability of the shocks will allow you to vary the ride, i.e. soften for the street, stiffen for the track (or carrying heavy loads - like the drive to VOI 11).

For a track guy, I'd avoid the KW's. They are OK on the street but don't do as well at the track and they are difficult to make spring changes to.

A more aggressive alignment will help on track handling, but will not significantly improve "ride" or body roll.

Lowering the ride height or CG (with Motons) will help with body roll and handling without negatively affecting the ride.

Good luck,

Dan

 

[Kai SRT10]

Dan is wise. Heed him.

I too went the swaybar route initially. Several folks insisted that a stiffer bar would help. I installed a set of comp coupe bars in my car. It just made things very skittish and decreased stability on the track. I took them off not long after I had them installed. (Still have them sitting in my garage.)

After some experimentation, I ended up with stiffer springs and Motons. With the Motons adjusted soft, the ride is actually more comfortable than than stock on bumpy roads, and significantly better on the track when the dampers are stiffened up a bit. My springs are 700 front, 900 rear.

"Stiffer sway bars will make the ride MUCH worse if you have bad roads especially. You need a good shock set up like the Moton Clubsports and stiffer springs. The ride will actually IMPROVE dramatically with this set up also and you can change ride height, rake and corner weight. These will absolutely transform your car into all that it sounds like you need."

Schulman,

Been down this road with 4 different Vipers now. Finally bought an ACR for the track and drive the SRT-10 coupe on trips (with Moton Club Sports and 500 / 800 lb springs). Listen to Mark on this, he is right on.

Stiffer sway bars, like those from the CC are available but will make your ride quality much worse on the street. I have tried them.

Stiffer springs (than OE) will help with Motons and the adjustability of the shocks will allow you to vary the ride, i.e. soften for the street, stiffen for the track (or carrying heavy loads - like the drive to VOI 11).

For a track guy, I'd avoid the KW's. They are OK on the street but don't do as well at the track and they are difficult to make spring changes to.

A more aggressive alignment will help on track handling, but will not significantly improve "ride" or body roll.

Lowering the ride height or CG (with Motons) will help with body roll and handling without negatively affecting the ride.

Good luck,

Dan