Tracking a 2002 GTS

[elanderholm]

I have been on the fence for a while now about buying a viper. I like to do HPDEs 5-10 times a year and have had an S2000 for 4 years now. It has been a great car for HPDEs since all it needs is brake fluid, brake pads, and R compound tires to be pretty fast (for that type of car). The braking system is great for the car for a stock system and works very well. What could I expect from a stock 2002 viper? Do I need a stop tech kit to avoid brake fade even with race pads and race fluid? What are good choices for viper pads? Carbotechs? Oil starvation an issue? How is the the suspension? Pretty decent or lacking seriously in any areas? I see a couple of interesting cars in the classifieds, but most seem to have straight line speed mods or look good mods and not track mods. I am hoping the track junkies can help me out, thanks.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

You can get some great times with a stock 02, just ask Ray Moore, that guy is FAST!

No need for any real upgrades other than maybe pads/rotors, fluids and cooling ducts.

I think one of the best upgrades is height adjustable 2-way Penskes(or comparable) shocks, and a set of slicks depending on the class you want to run. The shocks will allow you to get the car properly scaled - helps bigtime in braking and cornering.

Another great upgrade is 5-points, they will keep you in the seat much better than the stock 3-point, especially if you go with slicks.

Most important upgrade is seat time, seat time, seat time.

Good luck.

 

[0260in3]

I've tracked my 02 twice at Viper Days and it is completely stock with the exception of EBC Green Pads. I put these on for normal driving to get rid of the brake noise. However, on the track my stock pads seemed to work better. I've never had any mechanical issues during my two weekends of tracking. Just give the car an inspection before each run. I agree that if you plan to attend more than one track event per year, a safety harness would be a good investment.

 

[elanderholm]

Thanks for the reply! You mentioned pads/rotors? Are the stock rotors not up to the task? What are good replacements? What are good pads for the viper? I have run carbotechs and cobalts on my S2000.

Do you run penskes, motons? If so who set your's up? I am no suspension guru, so I have been reluctant to spring for more then 1 way adjustable shocks in the past.

I agree driving with a proper harness is much easier then standard 3-points, especially as your run stickier tires.

Anyway, keep the advice coming.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

I was afraid you'd think my suggestions were neccessary. They are not. You can drive a Viper from the showroom floor to the track and not have a problem. I'm just saying, some of the advice you will get will give you an edge.

I like PFC 01 (front). I'm trying different pads for the rear and currently run Hawk Blue.

A stock rotor will work. If you have fluid boil then go with a quality two-piece rotor.

The Cone brake ducts are probably the best. JonB sells them.

I run Penskes. Find a performance shop, (one that tracks, not drags) with scales, Portland has got to have somebody, ask the Vette, Porsche or BMW clubs.

Erik Messley EMI Racing [email protected] is the Viper suspension guru.

 

[elanderholm]

I actually didn't think your suggestions were necessary, I'm just trying to figure out the weaker parts of the car before I pick one up.

Unfortunately, I don't live in Portland anymore. I actually live around Houston now, but I have talked to JonB before.

I don't know if I'm very fast, but I do know that you have also driven at TWS before, in the counter clockwise config. My S2000 runs with RA1's and performance pads and fluid, but is otherwise stock. My first time out I hit around 102 through turn 7. What kind of speeds could I expect with a stock viper through turn 7 at TWS? I am just trying to get a baseline for how much faster the car will be on the turns and straights. I only hit about 125 before braking into turn 1. What does a stockish viper hit? 150?

Thanks again.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

People ask me that all the time. I gotta start looking at the speedo once in a while. Realistically I imagine I was probably approaching the 145 range going into one. Honestly, I the only time I ever look at the speedo is when somebody reminds me to.

 

[Gavin]

You really need to pay attention to the brakes. I'm with Chuck on his suggestions but a couple of things are really necessary or if you get up to even below midrange times you are going to have brake fade issues and major pad wear, especially if you get into the ABS.
Stock fluid has to go - Motul600 at a minimum
Stock pads will wear out in a day
PFC's are good
Pagits may be a bit cheaper
Do not run Hawke Blues - OK for track but will chew up your rotors on the street. Pfc's are a pretty good compromise

Flush the radiator and replace fluid.
Stock Vipers just go and go and go, just take care of the brakes.

If you are quick, you will need brake ducts for cooling.
The Porsche deflectors help a bit - again, the deciding factor is how fast you get.

Stoptechs are great
Ted at Valia Racing has installed a compe coupe brake setup on a GTS - way to go if you are going to do a lot of track stuff

My 2001 GTS uses up a set of pads in a weekend, or if I get into the ABS a lot, four sessions and the fronts are done. (Fully set up race car so relax)
The compe Coupe guys change pads once or twice a season - they get incredible pad and rotor wear - pads are very thick and have a larger surface area as compared to the Stoptech setup.
Stoptechs are fashionable - I think there are choices that stop the car equally as well and are less expensive to operate and maintain.

 

[Yellow32]

At TWS in my SRT-10 2005 'vert I am running up the hill in turn 7 at 110-120mph and before I brake for turn 1 I am doing north of 150mph, I really do not think I'm pushing it in either turn though. Stock car except for a baffled oil pan (SRT-10s really need this).

Hope that helps - I will be running TWS in a 2001 ACR in a month (Viper Days), will report back what happens with it...but I will be using Penske 3-ways and Stoptech brakes in that car.

You must be registered for see images

(yeah I got real numbers now, that was the first time I took that car to the track - last March)

-J

 

[elanderholm]

Hey, thanks guys. So it sounds like the viper will be a little harder on brakes then my car mostly because of the serious amount of extra weight and extra speed, but that was expected. I jut wanted to make sure it didn't have any serious flaws. I can handle that as I normally change out my pads to a full race pad before hitting the track and back before going on the street.

One question I didn't see an answer too, but maybe i just missed it: does the GTS have oil starvation issues with the stock oiling system and sticky tires?

At TWS in my SRT-10 2005 'vert I am running up the hill in turn 7 at 110-120mph and before I brake for turn 1 I am doing north of 150mph, I really do not think I'm pushing it in either turn though. Stock car except for a baffled oil pan (SRT-10s really need this).

If you are hitting 110+ in the middle of turn 7 then you are flying. I talked to a guy in the red and white run group who had a GT3 and he was hitting 115 in the middle of turn 7 and he as areo mods and hoosiers. Are you talking about the middle of the turn or after you exit and are heading up the hill? Just curious about the speeds this car will carry. Was that on stock tires?

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Key, as a couple have stated, is brake ducting. The system Henry Cone copied off of Bob Woodhouse's design is the absolute best, and I would go 4 times longer on pads after we installed. Give me a call and I would be happy to advise, as we do a ton of racing/track time here at Woodhouse. The other items can come later, and I do recommend a Competition pad ( we use Brakeman 3s ) , but ducting is numero uno for long term savings.

Sincerely,

Bill Pemberton
Woodhouse Viper
1-800-889-1893

 

[Janni]

YES - do the oil pan mod - trap doors, modified windage tray. Search for Joe Dozzo or JonB sells a kit. You need to be VERY concerned about left hand sweepers.

Everyone else here is pretty spot on - pay attention to your brakes - although a 2002 is better than the non-ABS cars. Good pads, good fluid, etc.

Check out www.viperdays.com and look at event results to get an idea of what limited preparation ON STREET TIRES can be done. I think you'll be surprised.

With the massive amount of torque in the Viper - you'd be wise to get a year of running with street tires - learn the car - measure yourself against the rest of the ViperDays crew, etc and then it'll be an easier transition to both Hoosiers or racing....

Enjoy!

I suspect running the S2000 will help you if you can translate the momentum thing over to the Viper - you shoudl be easier on the brakes than most - but, at the same time, the torque can bite you....

Come out to Viper Days this JANUARY at TWS - you'll have all the support, set up, parts, and driver experience help that you could ever ask for - right in your new backyard!

 

[Yellow32]

If you are hitting 110+ in the middle of turn 7 then you are flying. I talked to a guy in the red and white run group who had a GT3 and he was hitting 115 in the middle of turn 7 and he as areo mods and hoosiers. Are you talking about the middle of the turn or after you exit and are heading up the hill? Just curious about the speeds this car will carry. Was that on stock tires?

The 110+ is as I approach the apex, exit speed is higher, but, at that point (coming up over the hill into turn 8) I do not have any time to look at the speedo, not sure how much faster, maybe it just feels faster but I am accelerating.

Yes, I was on stock RUN FLAT tires, they work well if you air them up properly. The car is a blast on the track.

You must be registered for see images

Turn 4 @ TWS

-J

 

[FE+ACR]

I've taken mine out to TWS 3 or 4 times now....all stock. I'm a wuss after seeing/hearing about people smacking the wall coming out of 7, so I take it easy. Like Chuck, I don't spend a lot of time looking at the speedo, but I've easily hit 145 before going into turn 1.

 

[elanderholm]

Thanks for all the info. Now I just have the find the right viper for me. I wish I would have bought the one I looked at a 1 1/2 years ago, but I didn't...that's the way it goes. It sounds like at my driving skill level, some good fluid, pads and brake ducting will keep me entertained for a while.
Thanks again.
PS: You should try looking at your speedo in the middle of a corner...it's fun!! haha It's much easier on my car since it is a digital speedo with huge LED numbers!!

 

[ViperRay]

If I were in your shoes right now I'd try to get a Viper already modified. You didn't say how much you'd be driving the car on the street.

There are Vipers for sale from time to time with various degrees of modification...and there are MANY... you could save yourself a lot of $$.

A full suspension upgrade alone including adjustable shocks, springs, bushings, corner weighting and labor can cost $10K depending upon what you get.

Sounds like you're into the track thing so just a thought.

 

[elanderholm]

The car would serve as my track and daily driver. I don't drive that much per day, but I would like it to be useable on the street. I just wanted to get an idea of how a viper would fit that bill. It seems to meet it would fit pretty well. I have driven one viper and found it very easy and enjoyable to drive. I don't really want a track only car, but would like a nice compromise. The s2000 has been great for that and I look at the viper as the next step up. I actually found the S2000 and viper somewhat similar to drive, but that might sound weird since one is a 2 liter 4 ****** and the other is an 8 liter V10.