TT Vs. SC (What are the real world differences?)

[GARY J]

Here is the bottom line. The only people who can give an accurate comparison between a tt viper and a supercharged viper is someone who has both. I have a little turbo Porsche and I had a supercharged Cobra a few years ago. You want to know how much I know about ttvipers vs supercharged vipers.... nothing!! You can't compare other tt cars to a tt viper. I think it's foolish to say "I think _______ is better than _______." if you haven't at least driven both for an extended amount of time.
The people we need to hear from are folks like Boggs. He has both types. He needs to get some real world miles on the turbo car and give us a comparison between the two.

 

[CHAD]

It is not fair compare my car when it had a S/C to now with the TT. I will say that I am very impressed with the flexibility of the TT's to be able to run the road course or set records at the dragstrip with nothing more than a tire change and consulting the AEM.

 

[2MANYTOYS]

Turbos vs. S/C make the car sound very different. Both are excellent systems. I prefer the S/C personally. It makes all the power I could ever use and the car sounds badazzzz.
I respect the turbo cars because they make stupid power but I hate the way they sound. Just too quiet for me.

YOU MADE 1033RWHP!!! UNREAL, awesome power, details please, how much boost, and what does it do on pump? Sick #s!!!

15 lbs. boost. still a conservative tune. Car made 960 on pump. Keep in mind it was very hot in charlotte and the humidity was nearly 100%. We were in a hurry to get it tuned because we had to leave for shreveport. Better weather and more tuning time will result in better numbers for this car. They did a great job on the motor as well. Car sounds wicked.

 

[2MANYTOYS]

I respect the turbo cars because they make stupid power but I hate the way they sound. Just too quiet for me.

Amen brother. I might get me one of them superchargers.

LOL! Ronnie you ain't right.

Roof your S/C record will go down very, very soon.

 

[ChicagoGTS]

Here is the bottom line. The only people who can give an accurate comparison between a tt viper and a supercharged viper is someone who has both. I have a little turbo Porsche and I had a supercharged Cobra a few years ago. You want to know how much I know about ttvipers vs supercharged vipers.... nothing!! You can't compare other tt cars to a tt viper. I think it's foolish to say "I think _______ is better than _______." if you haven't at least driven both for an extended amount of time.
The people we need to hear from are folks like Boggs. He has both types. He needs to get some real world miles on the turbo car and give us a comparison between the two.

Hallelujah to that brother!!!

 

[ChicagoGTS]

It is not fair compare my car when it had a S/C to now with the TT. I will say that I am very impressed with the flexibility of the TT's to be able to run the road course or set records at the dragstrip with nothing more than a tire change and consulting the AEM.

BAD VPR,

You are a prime candidate for this thread, I'd be interested to hear your take on the "street" differences between TT/SC, that's if you even drive that monster on the street. I'd also like to hear your experience with the learning curve in regards to driving the TT compared to the S/C.

 

[CHAD]

The car is built to drive on the street. It has full Venzano int, big stereo with custom sub enclosure, Stoptechs, stock 6-speed tranny, full exhaust, air filters, etc. As long as I can keep Heffner from putting the parachute on it, you'd never know its potential by seeing it drive by.

 

[Moundir]

15 lbs. boost. still a conservative tune. Car made 960 on pump. Keep in mind it was very hot in charlotte and the humidity was nearly 100%. We were in a hurry to get it tuned because we had to leave for shreveport. Better weather and more tuning time will result in better numbers for this car. They did a great job on the motor as well. Car sounds wicked.

Good Lord, that is sick to have 960 all day long on pump gas I'd love to see this car run a TT on the street, maybe Chad's or Roof's Everyone wants to see this race happen, a bad ass SC vs TT on the street

 

[Supra]

Jason, is the Viper that went 9.56 @ 155 MPH the same one that dynoed 927 RWHP?

Torquemonster says:


power wise - a certain sc car just had a TT fitted and on the exact same motor - no other changes other than what was necessary to go from SC to Turbos the car dropped from 10.3's to 9.5's at 156mph. Even allowing for differences in boost pressure and track, the TT car has the speed edge if it will get traction and not break driveline parts.

Torquemonster,
Am I reading this correctly? Your saying ALL THAT WAS DONE to this car was to remove the supercharger components then add a turbo system and go from 10.30's to 9.50's?



Cheers,
Chuck

Chuck, while this is essentially true, it is not exactly true. In all fairness to the tuner who originally built the car, I would not say that this is a fair comparison. There were small changes made to the engine and we are running more boost and better tires. Like I said, not exactly a fair comparison.

 

[Jason Heffner]

No, this is not the same car that dynoed 927 rwhp.

 

[LIVIPER]

1) Why are the TT so much more $$$ than the s/c? (s/c=7k-20K) vs. (TT 25K-35K) Is it b/c the components are more $$ or is the difference in the labor? I know there is alot of exhaust plumbing involved in some of the TT.

2) Also, why do the TT put out more power? Couldn't you just change the pulley on a s/c and make as much boost as you can handle?

Just curious.

 

[Supra]

Thanks for the quick response! What does the car that went 155 MPH put to the ground?

No, this is not the same car that dynoed 927 rwhp.

 

[Supra]

One of the reason for TT cars to be so much higher in price is the exhaust manifolds themselves. Most tuners use good quality stainless stell for the manifolds and the costs can easily be ~$1200 to $2000 EACH! Plumbing will usually be a bit more as they require more of it, you also have to make downpipes for the turbos (again usually made of stainless steel), etc. With an SC car you don't have to do anything with the exhaust if you don't want to.

As far as why they produce more power for the same boost, the reason is that the SC is driven by the crank, the more boost you want to make the more power it robs from the crank and thus the engine. Turbos are driven from "spent gases" coming off the exhaust ports so there's no rasitic loss. Because of this a car making a given RWHP (say 900 RWHP) with properly sized turbos can do so much safer than a car making the same HP with a blower (given everything else being equal such as compression ratios, intercoolers, etc.)

Another thing to keep in mind is that Centrifugal SC's make peak boost at redline. So peak HP occurs at redline or close to it. Turbos (unless they are too big and thus laggy which is not much of a concern when you have 488+ Cubic inches) can produce peak boost at much lower RPM's, so they make more HP and torque at lower RPM's.

Positive displacement SC's however can make peak boost before redline, but they still have the same problem as other SC's when it comes to parasitic loss of HP as they are still driven by the crank.

1) Why are the TT so much more $$$ than the s/c? (s/c=7k-20K) vs. (TT 25K-35K) Is it b/c the components are more $$ or is the difference in the labor? I know there is alot of exhaust plumbing involved in some of the TT.

2) Also, why do the TT put out more power? Couldn't you just change the pulley on a s/c and make as much boost as you can handle?

Just curious.

 

[Jason Heffner]

First off, thank you for teh above explanation. I didn't really want to type all of that.

On this pass the car was making about 980 rwhp. It has however made more that that.

 

[LIVIPER]

Supra,
Ahhhh. Makes sense. Thanks for the response.

 

[STUGOTS]

ok lets say you have the complete package done to your car such as heads,cam,1.7 rockers,pushrods,heads,exhaust,high flow cats,TB's,smoothies,filters,vec 2 and even a ported and polished intake. Everything except a power adder what would it cost to just get the turbos setup and of course all the nessary fuel upgrads such as pump and rails ect.???


Also what kinda power would it make?

 

[Jason Heffner]

$30,000.00 and as much power as you want.

 

[Supra]

No problem. I figured the HP #'s would be close to that Would be sweet to see ~160 MPH traps out of that car!

LIViper, no problem bud

First off, thank you for teh above explanation. I didn't really want to type all of that.

On this pass the car was making about 980 rwhp. It has however made more that that.

 

[Casey]

How about the difference in HEAT from the SC being driven from the crank? Is there a major difference here?

 

[STUGOTS]

30k for just the turbo setup???

and as much power as I wanted but how much could we go safely?

 

[Supra]

Underhood temperatures will definitely by higher with turbos than SC's. The main reason for that is that the turbos are hanging off the exhaust, therefore they themselves are just as hot as the exhaust and will radiate heat.

How about the difference in HEAT from the SC being driven from the crank? Is there a major difference here?

 

[CHAD]

15 lbs. boost. still a conservative tune. Car made 960 on pump. Keep in mind it was very hot in charlotte and the humidity was nearly 100%. We were in a hurry to get it tuned because we had to leave for shreveport. Better weather and more tuning time will result in better numbers for this car. They did a great job on the motor as well. Car sounds wicked.

Good Lord, that is sick to have 960 all day long on pump gas I'd love to see this car run a TT on the street, maybe Chad's or Roof's Everyone wants to see this race happen, a bad ass SC vs TT on the street

I'm your Huckleberry

 

[flying dutchman]

ok lets say you have the complete package done to your car such as heads,cam,1.7 rockers,pushrods,heads,exhaust,high flow cats,TB's,smoothies,filters,vec 2 and even a ported and polished intake. Everything except a power adder what would it cost to just get the turbos setup and of course all the nessary fuel upgrads such as pump and rails ect.???


Also what kinda power would it make?

Hmmmmm wouldn't that be nice.....but who's gonna come over and install it?

 

[STUGOTS]

Hmmmmm wouldn't that be nice.....but who's gonna come over and install it?

[/QUOTE]


<------------------------ lives 25 minutes from Chuck Tator so thats not a problem.

 

[Jason Heffner]

30K includes the complete turbo system, complete fuel system, engine management system, intercooler, installation and tuning. How much power you can make depends on to what extent the engine is built. I would need to know how much power you want or what you want the car to be capable of running in order to give exact power or dollar figures. Our turbo's are not exactly mounted in the engine compartment, therefore the underhood temperatures are not really any hotter than a naturaly aspirated Viper. Coolant temperatures are lower due to the absence of parasitic drag.

 

[flying dutchman]

Hmmmmm wouldn't that be nice.....but who's gonna come over and install it?

<------------------------ lives 25 minutes from Chuck Tator so thats not a problem.

[/QUOTE]

i was thinking of my own car.........

 

[Supra]

30K is very reasonable for all that. Do you run an AEM or VECII?

Also good points about the turbos and heat, I'm thinking more of a car like my Supra where the turbos sit at the same leve as the head in the engine bay. I take it the turbos on your system are mounted low and towards the back of the engine (behind the engine mounts)?

30K includes the complete turbo system, complete fuel system, engine management system, intercooler, installation and tuning. How much power you can make depends on to what extent the engine is built. I would need to know how much power you want or what you want the car to be capable of running in order to give exact power or dollar figures. Our turbo's are not exactly mounted in the engine compartment, therefore the underhood temperatures are not really any hotter than a naturaly aspirated Viper. Coolant temperatures are lower due to the absence of parasitic drag.

 

[ChicagoGTS]

Jason, have you pushed the limitations of the stock forged GenII engines and if so where's the safe HP/TQ cutoff before anything is compromised. All assuming a safe A/F of course.

~Matt~

 

[2MANYTOYS]

15 lbs. boost. still a conservative tune. Car made 960 on pump. Keep in mind it was very hot in charlotte and the humidity was nearly 100%. We were in a hurry to get it tuned because we had to leave for shreveport. Better weather and more tuning time will result in better numbers for this car. They did a great job on the motor as well. Car sounds wicked.

Good Lord, that is sick to have 960 all day long on pump gas I'd love to see this car run a TT on the street, maybe Chad's or Roof's Everyone wants to see this race happen, a bad ass SC vs TT on the street

I'm your Huckleberry

you may be.

 

[Moundir]

And I'm your film man