Ultimate street car update

ZX1100

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As I see it Paolo gets all the respect from me that's for sure. He worked very hard gettting his car ready for this event with help from local friends. He trailered it out there himself, drove the car in all events, and is trailering it back himself. Now that's a true Viper owner! I agree with Torquemonster completely on this.

It's very surprising the Viper didn't finish 2nd even with the results in the Roadcourse. The 350Z owners were even surpised that he didn't get 1st overall. When you have events judged by a panel then anything could happen because it's out of your hands on certain events. As it looks Paolo only did poorly in the roadcourse and he won many events outright which confuses me on his 5th place finish :confused: Things were a bit questionable with the results in the 1/4. First Paolo was told he did a 12.2 and it ended up being 12.5 officially :confused:

He did give me some impressive results of how is car performed after talking to him but I'm sure Paolo will give all the details on those when he's back home. Can you believe he got 28mpg in the fuel economy event :D

Barry...why would you say he was laughed at? I would be laughing at that Skyline that was out there for weeks being tuned by a professional shop with a so called built motor that ended up in pieces. The last time my buddy was trying to buy a Skyline it was more than the price of a Viper.
 

Yellow Fever

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Torquemonster I was there. The only other Viper owner. Paulo did not earn respect, he was laughed at. The Viper was by far the most expensive car. The only thing he proved was that Heffner can build one heck of a motor and talking smack stops at the track when the belts are on. I don't know what kind of "professional teams" you're talking about, alot of the cars were driven there. Paulo got beat by better engineering and driving skills. Paulo was the one who looked like he spent big bucks and then disappointed the crowd with his proformance. I think everyone there would agree the Viper was with out a doubt the class of the field and the best car. It just was not showed where the rubber meets the road, on the track!

Barry

It's tough when you own a Viper..Your damned if you Win and damned if you loose.

If You win the event/race everybody says "well it should win it's the most expensive car in the line up and has the most HP"..You loose and everybody goes out of there way talk S**T about you .

I say F**K those other guys !!


Cheers


Jeff
 

RedSnakeGTS

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Torquemonster I was there. The only other Viper owner. Paulo did not earn respect, he was laughed at. The Viper was by far the most expensive car. The only thing he proved was that Heffner can build one heck of a motor and talking smack stops at the track when the belts are on. I don't know what kind of "professional teams" you're talking about, alot of the cars were driven there. Paulo got beat by better engineering and driving skills. Paulo was the one who looked like he spent big bucks and then disappointed the crowd with his proformance. I think everyone there would agree the Viper was with out a doubt the class of the field and the best car. It just was not showed where the rubber meets the road, on the track!

Barry

It's tough when you own a Viper..Your damned if you Win and damned if you loose.

If You win the event/race everybody says "well it should win it's the most expensive car in the line up and has the most HP"..You loose and everybody goes out of there way talk S**T about you .

I say F**K those other guys !!


Cheers


Jeff

hey, you stole my line!!! ;)
 

Chuck 97 GTS

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Just a quick note.. paolo may have run a 12.5 but he did it at 150mph..

Something isn't adding up here..With a trap speed of 150 MPH he should have been in the high 9's low 10's.. :confused:

Cheers

Jeff

It's called no traction. From what I understand they were only allowed to use one set of tires for all of the performance events. So he chose Hoosier autocross tires. This was probably good for the skidpad and five laps on the roadcourse, but not so good for the strip.

From what I heard, the magazine people where blown away by his car. When he won the gross display of HP everyone was going berserk. He even beat some hot shoe drifter guy that somebody hired to run their car in that event. While the points didn't necessarily add up in his favor in the end, anybody with more than two brain cells that function could tell that his car was the badass of the event.

Great showing, my brotha!
 

MannyC

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Are Hoosier tires that terrible for a drag strip? Why? I would assume they are vast improvements over running on stock tires at the strip, right?

Please tell me, as I have a road course event I am attending next week with Hoosiers and was just going to leave the tires on for the drag strip even afterwards instead of sticking my 19" purners with stock rubber back on.
 

Torquemonster

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"He did give me some impressive results of how his car performed after talking to him but I'm sure Paolo will give all the details on those when he's back home. Can you believe he got 28mpg in the fuel economy event"


Oh yes - I can believe that - no problem at all. Great effort! People who think lots of power means filthy exhaust and poor economy at cruise are in the dark ages. Good tuners have advanced a long way in the last decade.

As for the Viper being "by far the most expensive car there" - BS. Go price a Skyline landed with all taxes and on road costs, then what it takes to put down 660rwhp, and all the other work done to it that was not factory. I know what it would cost here - and it is a LOT CHEAPER HERE - we've had those toys here for years with every hot up part you can conceive of - the American Skyline scene is barely past the newborn stage over there - it is expensive in the USA!

Then go price up the Ultima - guys are full of BS when they talk about how "cheap" their cars were to build - they forget all the little costs that add up or underplay it to look good, or of course they do all the work themselves - spending 1500 hours to build a car and then put no value on their labour. The Viper was no prima donna - it was around other cars with equally serious investment.

As for insulting the driving - anyone who can show up a hired skid driver at the gross hp display has great driving skills in car control. Anyone who thinks he can jump into a 1000hp car and show off is going to have a short life. Failing to get the power down on the timed events only shows a lack of experience in that car at timed events. Had he had as much time to prepare as some of the others - I'm sure he'd have done a lot better. I'm sure even Mumford would have had problems trying to feed in 1000hp at the crank - WOT was probably not possible 95% of the time on the road course. Why am I even having to defend the guy - he gave it his best - that's enough.
 

SVS Turbo

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If You win the event/race everybody says "well it should win it's the most expensive car in the line up and has the most HP"..You loose and everybody goes out of there way talk S**T about you .

I say F**K those other guys !!


Cheers


Jeff

I know EXACTLY what you mean :smirk:
 

Yellow Fever

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Why am I even having to defend the guy - he gave it his best - that's enough.

Barry I sure hope that comment was directed at the none Viper community . I don't think you'll ever hear a negative word directed at Paolo from this crew .

Cheers

Jeff
 

PMUM

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As far as anyone beating PMUM's time from last year, NOT likely.

That's too bad a Viper didn't win this year. I actually emailed him and told him I'd show up and drive the car for him a while back. I thought with 1000hp I'd be able to kick the hell out of everybody this year even worse. I really wanted a Viper to kill everybody at the roadcoarse again.

Even though the classes are not balanced as well as they should be, they are more than fair with the subjective ratings. I think I got a 100 last year for drivability and a 97 from the 'Guru Panel' which are totally subjective. Also, the dragstrip portion is really a bit misleading--timewise. It was in a parking lot with a radar timer so it was pretty difficult to hook up unless you had 4wd. I think I ran about 12.2 at 125 or so last year when I know it would've been a mid 11 at Pomona on a real dragstrip.
 

_Niz_

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Here you go.

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Torquemonster

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Why am I even having to defend the guy - he gave it his best - that's enough.

Barry I sure hope that comment was directed at the none Viper community . I don't think you'll ever hear a negative word directed at Paolo from this crew .

Cheers

Jeff

Hey Jeff - no not aimed at the Viper community at all - just aimed at the one post that laughed at him!
 

Yellow Fever

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No worries Barry ..In that case I share in your aggression :)

What the hell is that Green car ?? I've never seen a car like that before ..Is that the SKYLINE ?

Looks like a Kit Car...What chassis / Motor is that running on ?

Cheers

Jeff

P.S Looks like we need to get Paolo a set of Kevlar tires for the next Shootout ;) :eek:
 

Torquemonster

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Jeff - the green car is the Ultima "kit car" - don't be fooled by the term "kit" tho - Maclaren used them to test the BMW V12 while developing their own F1 road car.

The Skyline is the plain looking white car at the bottom - it is the first GTR model - an R32 - years 1989-early 1993. It looks close to stock ride height, and the body kit is very plain. They look better from other angles and with other body kits - but they're never going to out look a Viper! The real Skyline attribute is that they look like another ricer but perform like an exotic.... until they blow up... grin

To be fair - they are normally pretty reliable up to 600 flywheel hp - after that they require MEGABUCKS to make them strong and reliable!!!
 

J DAWG

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OMG, that is hilarious

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I can guarantee, you won'y hear any excuses from Paolo. He is the owner, driver, and mechanic and regardless of the outcome, I bet he had a smile on his face the entire time. :cool:
 

treynor

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I give Paolo credit just for showing up and giving it a go. The BIG hp cars are pretty difficult to control on anything but drag tires, and this test simply underscores that fact. However, you know people will be talking about that HP figure for some time.

I'm certainly curious to hear how his car runs at a "normal" dragstrip with proper tires. The radar timers used for the USCC overestimate both ET and trap speed, because ET is measured from the moment the car begins to move, and MPH is measured at the end of the distance as opposed to being averaged over the last 60'.

Anyway - congrats for showing up and wowing them with power, Paolo!
 

Marv S

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He must have missed the ViperDays at PIR April 2003 when Vipers were running 1:02's on Sunday. I also see old 4cyl M3 cars running sub 1:10 at Pir, but that's quite a bit behind the Vipers, especially for a little 1.6 track with limited straights.

back in the mid 90's i lapped phoenix international raceways road course in phoenix, arizona at a speed of 1 minute 10 seconds in my 240-z. the track record for a viper as of today is only 5 seconds faster than my $20,000 240-z race car...
You say 5 seconds like it's .05sec... 5 seconds is forever on a track; especially if it's a tight track. Does that mean the Viper would lap your old ****** in only 14 laps?
 

Paolo Castellano

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Well - looks like Paolo did what he set out to do in the gross display of HP - man that would have been something to watch.

The rest all seems a bit like opinions right now so I'll wait till the formal results are known and Paolo is back to comment.

He has my utmost respect for doing this whole thing as a privateer.

Sure some loaded individual can spend a fortune on a car, then hire professioanl drivers for the track and perhaps another driver for the dragstrip etc all having had plenty of track time in the car just practising for their events. What does this prove - that money and a full time commitment wins?

we see that already in all sports - money wins.

But here is a guy who is not a billionaire, who paid for his car out of his own earnings, did everything he could in a very short space of time - way to short a space of time, he's had to fit it around his work, he's had very little sleep, drove his own car - and did a great job overall - that's what I see.

He was always bound to have some problems. Even professioanl teams have problems from time to time - the chances of him going and having a fairy tale event wasn't realistic. Over 800rwtq around a roadcourse would be like trying to race around on ice out of every turn. Full marks to Paolo for giving it a great shot. That car will have earned the respect of everyone who saw it run - and no one but no-none there would give themselves a snowballs chance in hell of taking Paolo on along a standing or rolling mile. They'd also all run to mommy before they'd line up in a dyno competition alongside him again.

Whatever the results - the Viper earned respect and so did Paolo. If Paolo ever wants to go back - he'll take with him a wealth of knowledge and exerience learned this time (his first) that he can then apply to next year if he wants to. He's earning his own experiences not buying them. Good for him.

When you want to make a car the fastest at whatever event it may make sense to hire a top gun who specialises in that event - but it's like putting a professioanl boxer in the ring against an amateur. The professional may make it all look easy - but my hat goes off to the amateur who did the hard yards making the most of the limited resources they had, earned the right to be there, and did their best. Top stuff!


Barry, as usual, you have put the whole thing into perspective the way only you can. You are the man!

I have to go shortly as I have to go and do 2 appointments this afternoon/tonight.

I will say this:

1. Roadcourse: a 900 RWHP car(CATS OFF) around the corners was not really a problem at all. Linear power curve = easy throttle modulation.

HEAT was the problem. The nature of the beast is the following: to go ari=ound a roadcourse, you are usually in the 4500-5500 RPM range.

On a tight roadcourse in 90 degree heat, the car simply ran too hot to really get into it for more than one lap. Just realize that any supercharged car with this kind of power would run this hot or hotter.....

I had 10 min. to learn the course. I thought it to be infinitely better to get a feel for the general line after the first time I spun the car as the 2nd turn was slightly tighter than the 1st. So at the limit through the 1st turn you are bound to spin in the 2nd turn.

I went around in 4th-6th gears learning the track. With all the handy information of oil temp, EGT, and the usual coolant temp. I was able to know how hard I could run my car safely.

One problem I found with the roadcourse was that there were no braking markers of any kind. Also, running NOT AT FULL OUT, to learn the course, gave me no feel for exactly how fast I could take some parts that the other cars could take flat out. Also, the other cars would brake at a certain point on the straight(Going 110-120 MPH). So if I went balls out down the straight and was hitting 150-160 MPH, where do I brake? HMMMM...... This was the problem for me. The other problem was the fact that there were walls everywhere since thes portion of the track in inside the oval. The [******] talking Chicago Skyline guy's car blew up and there were plenty of parts left where I knew I could dominate.==> He was a chump for telling me how he could rev his car all day long @ 10,000 RPM and the car would be "bulletproof"...==> I did not want to be a bigger chump who crashed his car before the parts he could most likely dominate. I wanted to represent the Viper Community positively and show what the car could do in ALL the categories. I spent all the money I have to get the car where it is. Some may disagree with this outlook but this was the way I chose to do it! I will go there in the next few months and hopefully do a driving school. As it was, I was only 2 seconds slower than the fastest Supra and Skyline from last year. I know 2 seconds is a lot, but finishing the competition and showing the competitors the awesome power of the Viper was better.

P.S. I pulled 1.097 G's on a 200 ft. skidpad that was littered with sand and tons of dust!


I ran the roadcourse dead last in line to give the car a chance to cool. I knew I had only one lap to run balls out before the car would be too hot for another hour or so..... So, I took one light load 5-10 inches of vacuum warm up lap doing side to side slalom to put heat into the tires. The car was still at 160 deegrees of coolant and oil temperature.==>
 

Paolo Castellano

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He did give me some impressive results of how is car performed after talking to him but I'm sure Paolo will give all the details on those when he's back home. Can you believe he got 28mpg in the fuel economy event :D

Barry...why would you say he was laughed at? I would be laughing at that Skyline that was out there for weeks being tuned by a professional shop with a so called built motor that ended up in pieces. The last time my buddy was trying to buy a Skyline it was more than the price of a Viper.

[/QUOTE]

Dennis, what does Nick(Skyline owner) expect for $31,000.00??????? ;)

P.S. I also beat the Skyline in the fuel economy, I got 28.8 MPG. he got 26.something. Even with his 10 extra points for running 91 octane cat piss, I still got more points than him. High tech/schmitech!
 

Paolo Castellano

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Just got home from the event. Results...... not good. Roadcourse results, Viper dead last of the cars that finished. 1/4 mile, Viper reported to be in the 12's. Skyline exploded motor on the road course. Parts thru the pan and scattered all over the track. Gross display of HP I think the Viper won. Paulo did a great job in the gross display of HP, completly shredded both rear tires. I think over all Viper will get 2nd or third place. Pics to follow.

Barry

BArry, I did not finish dead last in the road course. I for sure beat the Red Supra and a couple others!
 

Torquemonster

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Paolo - welcome back buddy!!! Glad you are safe and well.

1.097g is incredible on such a powerful car, as is 28.8mpg - man that is more than most stock Vipers can get. How did this test operate - was it 65mph along a highway or what?

re the road course - I thought there must have been a problem - yeah - heat is a major problem in the big hp cars - not sure what the fix is as equivalent powered race cars weigh 700-1600lb less so their cooling won't be good enough either. A huge front radiator would compromise the intercooler - so it's a hard one in the heat. I guess you already have the most powerful fan available in there.

The Skyline boast of 10,000rpm all day! BWAHAHA - what planet did that come from. Those cars make incredible power built to the limit - but they are not long life at those rpms. I've seen several drop their pants on the drag strip. The 1300hp *** tuning house "Top Secret" R34 Skyline that was one of a handful ever built able to make the big numbers and live at WOT on a top speed run has six figures invested in the engine alone!!! Big power and Rice is never on a small budget unless it is a grenade waiting to go - over 300hp per liter engine capacity = extreme stress - like a 2500hp Viper engine would be!!
 

Miles B

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I know EXACTLY what you mean :smirk:
Haha great call Jr! :)

Looks to me like they have some problems if they give one Viper 100 one year and 33 the next in the driveability category.

Maybe for n2o-like traction supercharged guys need to hold their bypass valves open all the way through first and have it close gently once in second? Maybe a 2psi pulley would have been better for the temps on the roadcourse? Would you have been allowed to change?

Paolo, I remember about a year or so ago watching you decide turbo/sc, and then on a tuner. Glad to see you have comes so far in such a short time.. you've got your car built blown and tuned, and into the USCC in like one year! If people give you **** about losing, tell em to stick it.. looks pretty good from where I'm sitting. I still haven't even flown over and bought a car.. unfortunately I have to pay 50k+ in mods straight away just to get it on the road here :(

One last thought.. ultimate street car to 99% of people on the street: "Supercharged Viper, or mildly modded 350Z?" I bet the 99% answer would be "what are you, on crack?"
 

Paolo Castellano

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Paolo - welcome back buddy!!! Glad you are safe and well.

1.097g is incredible on such a powerful car, as is 28.8mpg - man that is more than most stock Vipers can get. How did this test operate - was it 65mph along a highway or what?

re the road course - I thought there must have been a problem - yeah - heat is a major problem in the big hp cars - not sure what the fix is as equivalent powered race cars weigh 700-1600lb less so their cooling won't be good enough either. A huge front radiator would compromise the intercooler - so it's a hard one in the heat. I guess you already have the most powerful fan available in there.

The Skyline boast of 10,000rpm all day! BWAHAHA - what planet did that come from. Those cars make incredible power built to the limit - but they are not long life at those rpms. I've seen several drop their pants on the drag strip. The 1300hp *** tuning house "Top Secret" R34 Skyline that was one of a handful ever built able to make the big numbers and live at WOT on a top speed run has six figures invested in the engine alone!!! Big power and Rice is never on a small budget unless it is a grenade waiting to go - over 300hp per liter engine capacity = extreme stress - like a 2500hp Viper engine would be!!


Barry, You can see the more specific details of the fuel economy test in the fuel economy test post.

I got some good info from some of the turbo guys on how to keep the car cool for the road course......


As far as the supposed bulletprof nature of the Skyline, and the all the supposed big power of the Uspras/etc...., I am realizing it is a lot more talk that anything else.

When Me and Nick Wong went around and around this winter before my car was built, he told me to get the car running and put down real #'s before I could claim anything.

One of the most satisfying things was to have the car make the 900 RWHP I was hoping for and for the car to be so reliable to boot.
 

tyndago

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The Skyline blew up . Glad all you guys liked that. When you push cars , you break them. And we broke ours. We arent a "professional shop" . The guys working on the car are just hobbyists.

Maybe you would be interested to find out it ran a 1:20.75 blowing up...

The Viper ran a 1:24 around the road course. The only thing slower than the Viper around the road course was a Supra on 20 inch wheels . The Viper got owned by a 440 wheel horsepower Supra , Owned by a drag prepped Eclipse GSX by 8 seconds , Owned by 325 whp Supercharged 350Z. Owned by the Ultima.

Yes we blew up . We sucked air into the oil pickup and spun #2 bearing , which took out #1 rod , and they both went looking for better places in the outside world.

661 rwhp , 586 ft/lbs of torque. And we reved it to 8700 rpm. 2.6 liters. 254 hp per liter . Make 2032 rwhp and I will be impressed by the Viper.

The Viper made 820 whp. The 850 whp run did not count. There were 2 pulls allowed and that was the 3rd pull. He claimed 890 and it made 850. The number is impressive. The engine is not.

The Viper did well on the Skidpad 1.09 . Good number. Skyline was better than last year but still only 1.06 .

Quarter Mile. What a joke......820 whp and it was slower than Mumford last year. 12.4 and 12.5 . Glad it ran " 150 mph" , but in drag racing - its ET that counts. Of course the Skyline was blown up by then , so I guess I cant say much.

Braking . The Viper pulled 149 feet . The 350Z pulled 103 feet. But the Skyline was broken so we got a 0 there.

I look at that Viper as a joke. When the DVD and magazine come out. All you congratulating the Viper will see how it really was. I think he finished 5th overall.

Yes we blew up , but we went down in a blaze... we were in the lead by a long way
 

GaryA

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The Skyline blew up . Glad all you guys liked that.

Yes we blew up , but we went down in a blaze...

Ahhh! What a good bedtime story!
 

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