V10 MOJO
Enthusiast
how much (natural asper) should be done before a SC? can you take it to say 650HP then ******** the roe SC? also, with reagrds to SC, should you upgrade throttle bodies?
upgrades with SC
- Thread starter V10 MOJO
- Start date
Found this in regards to the TB's
70 mm TB's
70 mm TB's
We have thought about doing a LETHAL 750 S package. That would be a LETHAL 750 (750hp/800tq) with a supercharger. Given that the package made 650rwhp/717rwtq (600rwtq at a LOW 2500 rpms) in naturally aspirated form; with a modest and safe 5 pounds of boost you could expect to make some SERIOUS POWER!!
I have heard that some of the 'dyno breaking horsepower'(VERY high horsepower Vipers...not literally dyno breaking) are required to use race gas, or have extra tanks that pump race gas in under wide open throttle. Our goal would be for the package to run on pump gas (91 Octane for those of use in those unfortunate states that 91 as 'premium' unleaded)
In the next 2 weeks I will post the results of our LETHAL 750+ package. It won't pass smog like our normal LETHAL 750 package, but I guarantee it will make more power than it!!
Stay Tuned!
-Wayne
I have heard that some of the 'dyno breaking horsepower'(VERY high horsepower Vipers...not literally dyno breaking) are required to use race gas, or have extra tanks that pump race gas in under wide open throttle. Our goal would be for the package to run on pump gas (91 Octane for those of use in those unfortunate states that 91 as 'premium' unleaded)
In the next 2 weeks I will post the results of our LETHAL 750+ package. It won't pass smog like our normal LETHAL 750 package, but I guarantee it will make more power than it!!
Stay Tuned!
-Wayne
MES
Enthusiast
I also was wondering about what would happen with the Roe supercharger on a modified engine. I'm in the middle of putting on some BTR stage 2 heads w/T&D rockers and would be interested in adding Roe's supercharger (or some other DIY supercharger) sometime in the future. I would think the fuel system would be the big problem and would need to be upgraded. Also the 5-6 psi kit may be only 4-5 psi with free flowing heads?? don't know? so maybe a bigger pulley will be needed?
TomMiriViper
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LTHL VPR:
I have heard that some of the 'dyno breaking horsepower' Vipers are required to use race gas, or have extra tanks that pump race gas in under boost. Our goal would be for the package to run on pump gas!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Wayne what kind of horsepower would ti take for the need to run race gas? Do you mean superchargers or turbos? Why would you need to run race gas on a dyno and who runs race fuel with that type of setup?
Thanks in advance,
Tom
I have heard that some of the 'dyno breaking horsepower' Vipers are required to use race gas, or have extra tanks that pump race gas in under boost. Our goal would be for the package to run on pump gas!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Wayne what kind of horsepower would ti take for the need to run race gas? Do you mean superchargers or turbos? Why would you need to run race gas on a dyno and who runs race fuel with that type of setup?
Thanks in advance,
Tom
Y2K5SRT
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LTHL VPR:
I have heard that some of the 'dyno breaking horsepower' Vipers are required to use race gas, or have extra tanks that pump race gas in under boost. Our goal would be for the package to run on pump gas!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I know this Gen I is pushing 787.3 RWHP (a little over 900 HP at the crank) on pump gas, courtesy of Doug Levin and Gary Lister:
(Sorry Gary, I just loved your new avatar so much I had to post it!)
Chris
I have heard that some of the 'dyno breaking horsepower' Vipers are required to use race gas, or have extra tanks that pump race gas in under boost. Our goal would be for the package to run on pump gas!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I know this Gen I is pushing 787.3 RWHP (a little over 900 HP at the crank) on pump gas, courtesy of Doug Levin and Gary Lister:
You must be registered for see images
(Sorry Gary, I just loved your new avatar so much I had to post it!)
Chris
treynor
Enthusiast
> I have heard that some of the 'dyno breaking horsepower'
> Vipers are required to use race gas, or have extra tanks that
> pump race gas in under boost.
Now Wayne, play nice or my twin-turbo "DLM 1K" will hunt you down in your "LTHL VPR" and open a major can of whoop-a$$ on ya
Seriously, though -- all of Doug's recent systems have run on pump gas; I believe Roof's 791 RWHP represents a high water mark for that generation of system, but knowing Doug that record won't last long...
> Vipers are required to use race gas, or have extra tanks that
> pump race gas in under boost.
Now Wayne, play nice or my twin-turbo "DLM 1K" will hunt you down in your "LTHL VPR" and open a major can of whoop-a$$ on ya
Seriously, though -- all of Doug's recent systems have run on pump gas; I believe Roof's 791 RWHP represents a high water mark for that generation of system, but knowing Doug that record won't last long...
I was not necessarily referring to supercharged Vipers; I have heard of Vipers with nitrous, forced induction running high compression, use of water injection with forced induction, etc.. all requiring race gas to make peak performance. This was not intended as a flame or anything, I think it's great to see all the power these cars make. I am just making some assumptions that it is likely that most customers will not want to have to have to search for race gas, have dual gas tanks to fill up, or have a drum of race gas in their garage. Obviously, the more power you make the harder it gets to resist heat and detonation, and race gas is a great way to decrease the chances of detonation on high horsepower cars.
Ben- I have no doubt that car will come back and terrorize everything on land, sea, and air....Can't wait to see it. Maybe I could add a 200 shot of nitrous to the LETHAL 750 to make it at least somewhat competitive....maybe.
Keep up all the good work tuners!!! With all the competition, customers will reap all the benefits as we all strive to answer that ultimate, and always elusive, question: Is there such a thing as too much power?
Regards,
Wayne
Ben- I have no doubt that car will come back and terrorize everything on land, sea, and air....Can't wait to see it. Maybe I could add a 200 shot of nitrous to the LETHAL 750 to make it at least somewhat competitive....maybe.
Keep up all the good work tuners!!! With all the competition, customers will reap all the benefits as we all strive to answer that ultimate, and always elusive, question: Is there such a thing as too much power?
Regards,
Wayne
TomMiriViper
Enthusiast
Wayne, no flame intended but that's NOT what you said. Please reread your post and let me know what tuners that you have heard of that run race gas to make these 'dyno breaking horsepower' numbers. Would you mind being more specific or are you just guesing about that?
Thanks!
Tom
Thanks!
Tom
Gerald
Enthusiast
I have a fuel cell in my Viper that is a DLM Level II+ intercooled. It's a daily driver to boot. It runs like a clock.
The race gas is for safety feature against any detontion that MIGHT occur. My car in fact, does NOT need race gas. I can fill the tank up with 93 pump octane if I want to. I have to fill it about once a month, two weeks if I get on it a lot..
I chose to go with the Fuel cell. It give the car more potential if I want to upgrade from what I understand.
Gerald
The race gas is for safety feature against any detontion that MIGHT occur. My car in fact, does NOT need race gas. I can fill the tank up with 93 pump octane if I want to. I have to fill it about once a month, two weeks if I get on it a lot..
I chose to go with the Fuel cell. It give the car more potential if I want to upgrade from what I understand.
Gerald
jamie
Enthusiast
Is that the Autoform wing on Gary's car? Does anyone have more pics of it?
I badgts-
Good points. I totally agree with you...When you get into forced induction, your margin of error becomes zero. No such thing as slapping a system together. However, building a bulletproof bottom end and internals combination is a great foundation. There are a number of other concerns to think about too.
It's a good thing that APEX has years of experience in supercharging vehicles. We have worked with some of the leading manufacturers of superchargers to troubleshoot some of their production systems, and have provided input and guidance into others. Our tech. staff was even flown out to Italy to build and test supercharger systems for a sportscar manufacturer to use on a production car. If there is one thing APEX knows...it's superchargers... Heck, we install a few per week on other cars.
As we push the envelope of the Viper, we have found some interesting things....you'll notice that we are making over 650rwhp using the stock fuel system with our custom built injectors. Did I mention that the car was running so rich that we had to back out 10% of fuel???? With the stock fuel settings it was running at 9.5:1 air fuel ratio????
Anyway, a supercharger system will not be too tough of a task for our team of 7. The question we need to ask our customers is...Is 750 hp enough??? If not, then does supercharging make sense???
Thanks,
Wayne
Good points. I totally agree with you...When you get into forced induction, your margin of error becomes zero. No such thing as slapping a system together. However, building a bulletproof bottom end and internals combination is a great foundation. There are a number of other concerns to think about too.
It's a good thing that APEX has years of experience in supercharging vehicles. We have worked with some of the leading manufacturers of superchargers to troubleshoot some of their production systems, and have provided input and guidance into others. Our tech. staff was even flown out to Italy to build and test supercharger systems for a sportscar manufacturer to use on a production car. If there is one thing APEX knows...it's superchargers... Heck, we install a few per week on other cars.
As we push the envelope of the Viper, we have found some interesting things....you'll notice that we are making over 650rwhp using the stock fuel system with our custom built injectors. Did I mention that the car was running so rich that we had to back out 10% of fuel???? With the stock fuel settings it was running at 9.5:1 air fuel ratio????
Anyway, a supercharger system will not be too tough of a task for our team of 7. The question we need to ask our customers is...Is 750 hp enough??? If not, then does supercharging make sense???
Thanks,
Wayne
Gear Grabbn Gary
Enthusiast
Jamie, Yes it is the autoform double wing for R/T10's. We have only been able to have a couple of short burp's into the triple digits, and it really seems to stabilize the car.
