Using Stoptech Big brakes on a 2000 GTS

Hirkophoto

Viper Owner
Joined
May 28, 2006
Posts
273
Reaction score
0
Location
So CAL
Hey guys I bet someone out there knows the answer to this question. I am going to do a big brake upgrade on my 2000 GTS and I'm running OEM 18" wheels. Can I run the Stoptech ST-60 (six piston) with 14" rotors in the front and the ST-40 with 13" rotors in the rear. Let me know if anyone out there might be running a similar set up.
Hirk
This is the kit I'm looking at for the front.
ST83.260.6700 StopTech Big Brake Kit - 355mm x 32mm
These guys claim it fits.
 

Detlef

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 24, 2003
Posts
1,302
Reaction score
0
Location
Northern Colorado
Don't know about that kit in particular but I have SRT 14" up front and 13" in the rear with stock 18" wheels. Had to use spacers and new lugnuts for the wheels to clear the calipers. All came in Dave's Big Brake Kit.
 

Tom F&L GoR

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Posts
4,984
Reaction score
7
Location
Wappingers Falls
It may fit but give them a call and ask about brake bias. You're putting on somewhat larger front calipers but the rear calipers have much much much more clamping force than the OEM single piston Brembo. You will need an adjustable proportioning valve to dial down the rear brake line pressure so you don't lock up the rears. Also, depending on your state inspection, you will also need to add on a parking brake.

I'm "biased" (pun intended) but this page (and others if you want to look around) will be useful just to explain things.
40mm Advantages

If you're not going to use the OEM rear calipers for parking brakes, let me know how much you want for them.
 

Leslie

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 5, 2005
Posts
4,525
Reaction score
0
Location
Indiana
I looked at the StopTech's and considered them , then went with a GenIII caliper with spacers in front, stock caliper in rear, stock OEM 18" wheels (2001 GTS).

I track my car usually 2x/month, at first I thought I would have too much brake in the front and feel an 'imbalance', but it's actually feeling pretty good-for now anyway.
 

RTTTTed

Viper Owner
Joined
Jun 6, 2007
Posts
6,438
Reaction score
1
You've tested out the new big brakes Leslie? Great. Gotta love those '01 44mm rear calipers. The ABS in our cars adjusts the front and rear brake bias for us.

Hirkophoto's 2000 GTS has 36mm rear calipers, no antilock and the stock rear calipers are way too small for the car's balance. Adding 14" front brakes means that he needs at least Tom's 40mm rear caliper upgrade for his car's balance and he needs an adjustable proportioning valve (adjusts brake pressure to rear brakes) to manually adjust the brake balance between the front and rear brakes of his car.

My 98 GTS has Tom's rear caliper upgrade and stop-tech lightweight 13" cross-drilled, slotted rotors. My 01 had stop-tech the same brakes but I upgraded to the Roe racing 14" lighweight front brake kit. When I broke in my rotors and pads (according to the stoptech webpage) all 4 rotors were an equal color of BLUE showing a good balance.

Ted
 

Joseph Dell

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 2, 2000
Posts
3,463
Reaction score
0
Location
Atlanta, GA 30338
My 99 has the Stoptech 14" fronts and Tom's upgraded rears. It is an awesome combination and brakes better than some of the prepped Ferraris at the track. Definitely worth considering. Oh, and no proportioning valve!

Joseph
 

GTSnake

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 26, 2000
Posts
2,767
Reaction score
22
Location
Motor City
How did you guys get the rotors to match? Are they drilled and slotted or all just solid disks?
 

RTTTTed

Viper Owner
Joined
Jun 6, 2007
Posts
6,438
Reaction score
1
I have slotted lightweight Roe Racing rotors in front and Stop-tech slotted/cross-drilled lighweight rotors in rear.

Front Stoptech rotors will eventually crack/heatcheck, if tracked, from the holes so you need no holes if going to the track. Slotted rotors will disapate the gases without heatcheck. Crossdrilled is OK for the street and should increase braking a tiny amount, but without 150mph continuous braking (like at the track) only slight heat check is likely. Heat check is normal.

My rotors are mismatched since the rears are drilled, smaller (13") and thinner, but since the rears only accomplish about 20% of the braking - they work perfectly as seen in the equal 'tempered' Blue rotor color after break-in. Now, of course they're silver. To me the brake balance is the important function, not looks.
Ted

Ted
 

Tom F&L GoR

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Posts
4,984
Reaction score
7
Location
Wappingers Falls
Wow. Talk about hijacking.

Gotta love those '01 44mm rear calipers.

2001-02 are 43mm.

Hirkophoto's 2000 GTS has 36mm rear calipers, no antilock and the stock rear calipers are way too small for the car's balance. Adding 14" front brakes means that he needs at least Tom's 40mm rear caliper upgrade for his car's balance and he needs an adjustable proportioning valve (adjusts brake pressure to rear brakes) to manually adjust the brake balance between the front and rear brakes of his car.

Don't need a prop valve with OEM fronts and 40mm rears, and adding the 14" fronts shift the bias back to the front again, so still no need to reduce rear brake line pressure with a prop valve (i.e. Joe Dell setup.)

Sorry I'm anal about details.
 

96GTS

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 2, 2005
Posts
1,038
Reaction score
0
Location
Dyess AFB, TX
I called JonB because I was interested in putting the SRT-10 brakes on my 96. He explained that all the parts I wanted to use on my car would be off a used vehicle, and there would be some modification required also. He made a LOT of sense and posed the question of why not just get a better systems that was designed/made for my car. After hearing the laundry list of parts that I would need to go with the SRT-10 kit, it just made sense to go with a StopTech set up because it would be brand new and I wouldn't be putting it together like a jig-saw puzzle. To me, the brakes are THE most important system on the car, and should be treated as such.
 

Leslie

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 5, 2005
Posts
4,525
Reaction score
0
Location
Indiana
I called JonB because I was interested in putting the SRT-10 brakes on my 96. He explained that all the parts I wanted to use on my car would be off a used vehicle, and there would be some modification required also. He made a LOT of sense and posed the question of why not just get a better systems that was designed/made for my car. After hearing the laundry list of parts that I would need to go with the SRT-10 kit, it just made sense to go with a StopTech set up because it would be brand new and I wouldn't be putting it together like a jig-saw puzzle. To me, the brakes are THE most important system on the car, and should be treated as such.


Wow that sounds complicated!

My GenIII parts were new and my mechanic said the install was relatively easy (VERY easy for me haha).

I wanted a good 'balance' when braking,at the track, like Ted says, and I definitely have achieved that. Stoptech's are awsome, can't go wrong there.
 

RTTTTed

Viper Owner
Joined
Jun 6, 2007
Posts
6,438
Reaction score
1
What calipers does Stop-tech sell? I thought they sold the Brembo (stock Gen3) calipers, unless you spent the big bucks and ordered the 6 piston upgrades?

Ted
 

SingleMalt

Enthusiast
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
552
Reaction score
0
If braking is THE MOST IMPORTANT system on your car (as I also believe), go with the Stoptech big brake system and realize you have nothing to gain by increasing the fronts to 6-piston units. You will love them!

Mike

I called JonB because I was interested in putting the SRT-10 brakes on my 96. He explained that all the parts I wanted to use on my car would be off a used vehicle, and there would be some modification required also. He made a LOT of sense and posed the question of why not just get a better systems that was designed/made for my car. After hearing the laundry list of parts that I would need to go with the SRT-10 kit, it just made sense to go with a StopTech set up because it would be brand new and I wouldn't be putting it together like a jig-saw puzzle. To me, the brakes are THE most important system on the car, and should be treated as such.
 

Tom F&L GoR

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Posts
4,984
Reaction score
7
Location
Wappingers Falls
What calipers does Stop-tech sell? I thought they sold the Brembo (stock Gen3) calipers, unless you spent the big bucks and ordered the 6 piston upgrades?

Ted

They sell four piston calipers for the front that have smaller pistons (36mm and 40mm) than the OEM Brembos (38mm and 42mm). It was their way of shifting brake balance to the rear.

These Stoptechs with the OEM 36mm rears are mathematically equivalent in front to rear brake piston area ratio as OEM fronts and 38mm rears; difference being which end of the car is changed.

See chart at bottom of page:
Upgrade Details

The OEM fronts plus 40mm rears is... a bigger rebalance.
 

dave6666

Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Posts
14,975
Reaction score
0
Location
Explaining Viper things to you
My Gen 3/4 braking system was all brand new parts down to the screws etc. Not sure why anyone would assume that Stoptech has some golden edge when it comes to newness of parts. And jigsaw puzzle? A caveman could do it.

You have to remember that the story you get about the parts will match what the person you are talking to sells. If that person don't sell them parts then of course it's a nightmare to install them. Buy theirs! :rolleyes:
 

RTTTTed

Viper Owner
Joined
Jun 6, 2007
Posts
6,438
Reaction score
1
They sell four piston calipers for the front that have smaller pistons (36mm and 40mm) than the OEM Brembos (38mm and 42mm). It was their way of shifting brake balance to the rear.

These Stoptechs with the OEM 36mm rears are mathematically equivalent in front to rear brake piston area ratio as OEM fronts and 38mm rears; difference being which end of the car is changed.

See chart at bottom of page:
Upgrade Details

The OEM fronts plus 40mm rears is... a bigger rebalance.

So what you're saying is that Stop-tech calipers are smaller than stock Gen3/4 Brembos to lessen the brake pressure on thye larger rotors??? Ane their excuse is to maintain balamce with the OLD Gen2 rear calipers???

Isn't that kinda like closing the gate after the Horse ran away? Upgrade the rotors, but downgrade the calipers? Does that leave any benefit in braking distance Tom? If that's the case then upgrading the rears with your 40mm caliper (which I had on my 98GTS) would prohibit using stop-tech front calipers because they're too small?

Ted
 

ViperTony

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Posts
7,554
Reaction score
0
My Gen 3/4 braking system was all brand new parts down to the screws etc. Not sure why anyone would assume that Stoptech has some golden edge when it comes to newness of parts. And jigsaw puzzle? A caveman could do it.

You have to remember that the story you get about the parts will match what the person you are talking to sells. If that person don't sell them parts then of course it's a nightmare to install them. Buy theirs! :rolleyes:

The Wizard has installed many of these kits...I've never heard him complain about it. He keeps doing it...either he loves jigsaw puzzles or it must be a great upgrade. The last time I checked, he didn't have time for jigsaw puzzles. :eater:
 

Tom F&L GoR

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Posts
4,984
Reaction score
7
Location
Wappingers Falls
So what you're saying is that Stop-tech calipers are smaller than stock Gen3/4 Brembos to lessen the brake pressure on thye larger rotors??? Ane their excuse is to maintain balamce with the OLD Gen2 rear calipers???

Yes and yes. The calipers they market for Gen 1/2 cars are smaller (36mm/40mm) than the OEM Gen 1/2 (38mm/42mm) and Gen 3/4 (40mm/44mm) front calipers. The smaller front calipers use the same (not lesser) brake (fluid) pressure but distributed over less area (smaller pistons) to produce less clamping force. Meanwhile the rear calipers are unchanged, so this combination shifts the braking effort balance more rearward.

Isn't that kinda like closing the gate after the Horse ran away? Upgrade the rotors, but downgrade the calipers? Does that leave any benefit in braking distance Tom? If that's the case then upgrading the rears with your 40mm caliper (which I had on my 98GTS) would prohibit using stop-tech front calipers because they're too small?

Ted

It's a valid way to shift the balance, and as noted, the math shows it would be equivalent to 38mm rear calipers. Since Stoptech is in the business of four piston calipers, it makes sense. The rotors aren't involved in brake balance, but in removing the heat generated. Upgraded rotors would also be less weight.

Joseph Dell's system uses the Stoptech front calipers, but on a 14" rotor, with a 40mm rear caliper. Moving the caliper to a larger radius improves the leverage and increases the braking force. Joe likes this combination.

Chuck Babel has the Stoptech front calipers on the OEM size 13" rotor in combination with 38mm rear calipers. Chuck likes his combination. By pure coincidence, I know of a 38mm set used only 1-2 days on a project car that will probably be for sale. Anyone interested can check with Chuck 98 RT/10 about performance then PM me if you are interested.

I suspect that Stoptech front calipers with a 40mm caliper would be a bit too much rear bias. However, add on an adjustable proportioning valve and it can be fine tuned and is still a much less costly setup than a four-caliper kit.
 

luc

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 19, 2000
Posts
1,038
Reaction score
6
Location
Paso Robles CA
no doubt that Tom upgrade of the rear stock calipers is the best "bang-for-buck" solution, it's only downside being the lack of bling factor.
Obviously since the stock Gen2 can lock the front wheels, there is no need for bigger caliper/more clamping force in front.
Once you understand how brakes work, it's very simple to modify them to get the result that you're after.
first you have to decide what are you trying to accomplish, more bling factor, less fade, shorter stopping distance, less unsprung weight?
Bling factor is an easy one, biggest cross-drilled rotors with BIG calipers all around
Less fade is more complicated and revolve around better cooling, heat dissipation and thermal capacity and pads
That usually include air ducts, 2 pieces lager diameter rotors and even brake fluid recirculating or water cooling ( as on my Roush T/A)
Shorter stopping distance, keeping in mind that the limiting factor is the coefficient of friction between your tires and the road, has mostly to do with clamping force, weight transfer and bias balance.
MC diameter, rotor diameter, pads, driver skills, suspension, tires and calipers all play a role.
Less unsprung weight is accomplished by lighter components such as carbon rotors, and is the most expensive proposition.

Luc 00GTS
 

bushido

Viper Owner
Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Posts
822
Reaction score
0
Location
Monterey,CA
I think the 6 piston front calipers are overkill. Just get the SRT10 calipers front and back with some good 2 piece slotted rotors, like Giro Discs..
 
OP
OP
H

Hirkophoto

Viper Owner
Joined
May 28, 2006
Posts
273
Reaction score
0
Location
So CAL
Wow. Thanks for the info. Unfortunately now I'm more confused than I was before I asked.
One of the reasons I did not want to go with the Dave's BB kit is all the "puzzle pieces" As someone stated. It seems like I need to buy all these little things separately to make it work.
When I can go to a Stoptech kit and it just fits and everything is included. The bi problem I have now is I feel my car is really under braked. The pedal feel is like a brick there is no feel it's either all or nothing. I really want to make this better. Bling factor is a small part for me. I want to system that is going to stop my car better and has some feed back so I don't just lock up the brakes (2000 = No ABS) I'm open to solutions. I just want to make the correct choice.
Looks like I will have to get on the phone and ask some more questions.
 
OP
OP
H

Hirkophoto

Viper Owner
Joined
May 28, 2006
Posts
273
Reaction score
0
Location
So CAL
If braking is THE MOST IMPORTANT system on your car (as I also believe), go with the Stoptech big brake system and realize you have nothing to gain by increasing the fronts to 6-piston units. You will love them!

Mike
Mike did I read this correctly? Are you saying the six piston is not a gain?
Hirk
 

dave6666

Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Posts
14,975
Reaction score
0
Location
Explaining Viper things to you
The Dave's kit is only puzzling if you buy the wrong parts and try to fit them on your car. I would suspect the same result if you buy the wrong Stoptech kit for your car.

Now that, is not puzzling at all.
 

bushido

Viper Owner
Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Posts
822
Reaction score
0
Location
Monterey,CA
Heres my setup front and back with the Giro Disc 2 piece slotted rotors.. ( 97 GTS)

You must be registered for see images attach


You must be registered for see images attach
 

JonB

Legacy\Supporting Vendor
Supporting Vendor
Joined
Dec 8, 1997
Posts
10,325
Reaction score
45
Location
Columbia River Gorge
We have sold a LOT of the Dave's kits, and Dave's BB kit works fine.....but when you wish to keep OE 18" wheels, therein lies the puzzle issue:

Depending on the date of that quote- request and the budget, maybe Used calipers + needed spacers and collared lugs + Daves kit + Rotors + ss lines +pads etc would have added up to the StopTech price for NEW.

PS: If you use a VCA / StopTech Sponsor-Vendor, you WILL get the right kit at a competitive price, and tech support for the life of the kit. "These Guys say it Fits"... we hope "These Guys" are helping to bring you this forum?!?

We have also been a Giro-Disc Vendor since 2004..... we can fit ANY Viper w/ 2pc as shown, but with a GIRO-DISC logo

Thanks
 
Last edited:

luc

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 19, 2000
Posts
1,038
Reaction score
6
Location
Paso Robles CA
Wow. Thanks for the info. Unfortunately now I'm more confused than I was before I asked.
One of the reasons I did not want to go with the Dave's BB kit is all the "puzzle pieces" As someone stated. It seems like I need to buy all these little things separately to make it work.
When I can go to a Stoptech kit and it just fits and everything is included. The bi problem I have now is I feel my car is really under braked. The pedal feel is like a brick there is no feel it's either all or nothing. I really want to make this better. Bling factor is a small part for me. I want to system that is going to stop my car better and has some feed back so I don't just lock up the brakes (2000 = No ABS) I'm open to solutions. I just want to make the correct choice.
Looks like I will have to get on the phone and ask some more questions.

Pedal feel is very subjective but before doing anything I would make sure that your brake system is up to specs.
Change brake fluid, inspects rotor and pads for glazing ( going over both rotors and pads with some fine sandpaper will be a good idea).
I also have a 00GTS and have no problem with pedal feel.
 
OP
OP
H

Hirkophoto

Viper Owner
Joined
May 28, 2006
Posts
273
Reaction score
0
Location
So CAL
Pedal feel is very subjective but before doing anything I would make sure that your brake system is up to specs.
Change brake fluid, inspects rotor and pads for glazing ( going over both rotors and pads with some fine sandpaper will be a good idea).
I also have a 00GTS and have no problem with pedal feel.

Yeah I have been through all that before. New high temp fluid, new rotors new pads, same braking. Feels like I am pushing on a brick. Nothing and then everything. The brakes on my Chevy Equinox are far better than my Viper.
Sad but true.
 
OP
OP
H

Hirkophoto

Viper Owner
Joined
May 28, 2006
Posts
273
Reaction score
0
Location
So CAL
Heres my setup front and back with the Giro Disc 2 piece slotted rotors.. ( 97 GTS)

You must be registered for see images attach


You must be registered for see images attach

I would love to discuss your kit and how it's working for you.
Any chance we cal talk on the phone sometime to get more details?
 

Latest posts

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
153,645
Posts
1,685,216
Members
18,221
Latest member
tractor1996
Top