Va-Md Dyno Day Results -- What Creampuffs?

[Ron Hickey]

Heffner’s Performance hosted a Dyno Day for the Virginia-Maryland VCA today. Weather was excellent – 80 degrees. In all 14 cars were tested in a near perfect controlled environment -- all in the same way, on the same day, using the same DynoJet dyno, by the same tester (Jason Heffner). The cars are listed in order of year and best run. I’ve listed the modifications and mileage, when available. Please note that we were able to test two bone stock GTS’s (with stock filters & hoses), a 1996 and a 2000. All results are corrected for atmospheric conditions and altitude.

With careful study, there is a wealth of information here. Some of which may fuel or defuse the “Creampuff” debate. What follows are the facts – you can make your own conclusions.

Many thanks to Jason Heffner for hosting this great event!

1. 
   <LI>1993 RT/10, Venom 500: 436 rwhp, 481 torque.
   <LI>1996 GTS, Bone Stock (stock filters & hoses), 20000 miles: 422 rwhp, 459 torque.
   <LI>1997 GTS, Borla Headers & Exhaust, filters & hoses: 447 rwhp, 487 torque.
   <LI>1997 GTS, SVSi Stage I (Cam, heads, headers, exhaust, rockers, computer), airbox, filters & hoses: 453 rwhp, 483 torque.
   <LI>1999 RT/10, side exhaust, filters & hoses: 421 rwhp, 478 torque.
   <LI>2000 GTS, Bone Stock (stock filters & hoses), 2800 miles: 400 rwhp, 445 torque.
   <LI>2000 GTS ACR, Bone Stock, 3000 miles: 407 rwhp, 448 torque.
   <LI>2000 GTS, filters & hoses, Snake Oyl rear pipe: 416 rwhp, 462 torque.
   <LI>2000 GTS, filters & hoses, Snake Oyl rear pipe: 417 rwhp, 459 torque.
   <LI>2000 GTS, T&D Rockers, Mopar ECU, Heffner Performance airbox, no filters, smooth tubes: 442 rwhp, 481 torque. (This car pulled an 11.8 ET on slicks at MIR with 30 miles on the odometer; it also made a second trip to MIR for more drag racing with 130 miles. So much for the approved break-in…)
   <LI>2000 GTS, Venom 650: 482 rwhp, 480 torque.
   <LI>2000 RT/10, Venom 650: 466 rwhp, 489 torque.
   <LI>2001 GTS, filters & hoses, Snake Oyl rear pipe, 9800 miles: 406 rwhp, 448 torque.
   <LI>2001 GTS, filters & hoses, Snake Oyl rear pipe, 10000 miles: 409 rwhp, 447 torque.

 

[Qualitywires.com]

Wow! I'm surprised to see that the tuner's numbers are that low. I'm not an expert, but I'm sure these guys spent a pretty penny on the upgrades to only get 30-50 extra horses?

 

[Gerald]

It seems that the creampuffs are indeed about 10-15 hp lower than the 96 to 98's.

2000 GTS, Venom 650: 482 rwhp, 480 torque.

2000 RT/10, Venom 650: 466 rwhp, 489 torque

what's with that?

30k plus package for only about 60 more rwhp??????

Gerald

 

[slaughterj]

From looking at those, I'm real happy with the #s I got today with mine on the dyno:

1998 RT/10, filters & tubes, ~12,700 miles, 424.6 rwhp, 472.8 torque (SAE)

 

[RECOIL]

My car was put on the dyno right after a four hour trip to Heffner's. I pulled a best of 416. I wonder if it would have been more had the car been given the opportunity to cool down (one guy was there with bags of ice!).

I didn't reset my computer either. I've been told that can actually increase you by up to 10HP.

I'll post number in about three weeks after I put on the new modifications.

If worst comes to worst, I'll supercharge my 00 and let you guys keep on talking about creampuffs. &lt;grin&gt;

Steve

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

I'm happy! 417rwhp, 459 torque, filters, tubes, snake oyl rear, barely broken in, 1233 miles. Jason, thank you very much, the way you are going about business I predict your reputation will be known nationally as well as some of the big name tuners in not so long a time. Great job!

 

[THEMASH]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ron Hickey:

<LI>2000 GTS, filters & hoses: 417 rwhp, 459 torque.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Ron, i think this car "#9" had the snake oyl rears.

 

[Martin D]

W O W.

What it up with those 650R's???

Now I really do feel special.

Regards,

 

[Russ M]

Whats with the 99 rt that has the side exhaust? It pulled good power for the mods listed, is the exhaust a stock side out or an after marker?

 

[BobK898]

Alan M what are your mods and numbers?

 

[Ron Hickey]

A couple of notes:

The side exhaust 99 was a conversion done by the owner, not an aftermarket kit.

Note the similarity between like cars. For example, the two 2001's with tubes and filters & rear pipes: one made 406 the other 408 rwhp. For the most part, there's a lot of consistency in these figures and between cars.

I wish we could have tested one or two more 96-98 cars; unfortunately, none showed. We'll try to get some more when we do this again, perhaps in the spring. I also wish we could have tested some 00-01 cars with more extensive exhaust mods. Fortunately, some of the cars there will be modified later this year, so we'll try to update this list then.

No car tested lower than 400 rwhp. Using the driveline loss conversion multiplier, all are making the rated 450 crank hp. If you consider a car making 400 rwhp a creampuff, your standards are pretty high.

4 hp in a 400 hp car is 1 percent. So even a 10-12 hp difference between cars is only 3 percent.

 

[BobK898]

Alan I would agree that the dyno results can only be backed up by track results so until track results are compared for different years, assuming other factors to be equal which of course they won't, only then can you assign creampuff status to the later cars. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Marc Lublin]

Pretty lousy Venom 650 numbers. When a car is sold as a 650 isn't it supposed to pull the equivalent of 650 at the flywheel? How did they drop so much from his dyno to yours? Yes, both cars should be checked out (by someone other than Hennessey) to see if they got the Mods they paid for. More bad Hennessey press, how strange? Maybe others will see this and decide to have their monster Hennessey machines put on the dyno. Hopefully most of you will have a good result. For those that don't, I would have them checked out and get my money back if the car didn't receive exactly what you paid for. Been there, done that!
Anyway, glad to see you had a good turnout and gave all of us the straight scoop on the HP #'s.

 

[C O D Y]

It takes 403.6 RWHP to get 450 at the crank with a vipers driveline loss.

 

[GTS Dean]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rick Martino:
Ok, so what if the Lumpies have a few more HP than the Creampuffs. What are they going to do when that faggy looking GenIII comes along with 50 HP? That's right, they'll be teaming up with us Creampuffs to lay some good smack on those Honda lookalikes.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rick, that's COLD!

(couldn't have said it better myself

)

 

[slaughterj]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by C O D Y:
It takes 403.6 RWHP to get 450 at the crank with a vipers driveline loss.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
How does we know this? About 11.5% loss thru the system?

 

[MichaelP]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rick Martino:
Ok, so what if the Lumpies have a few more HP than the Creampuffs. What are they going to do when that faggy looking GenIII comes along with 50 HP? That's right, they'll be teaming up with us Creampuffs to lay some good smack on those Honda lookalikes.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, then you will have 2 different gens that have more HP than then yours.

 

[Serious Eric]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ron Hickey:

1. 
   <LI>1997 GTS, Borla Headers & Exhaust, filters & hoses: 447 rwhp, 487 torque.
   <LI>1997 GTS, SVSi Stage I (Cam, heads, headers, exhaust, rockers, computer), airbox, filters & hoses: 453 rwhp, 483 torque.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think these form the most intersting comparison. If I was the second guy I'd be really pissed. Heads, cam, rockers and computer netted +6 HP and -4 ft.lb. I'd be lookin for a refund.

 

[GaryA]

quote:
-----------------------

 

[Serious Eric]

That's a relief. Then it appears he paid precisely what those 'upgrades' were worth.

 

[Ron Hickey]

Posted by Cody:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
It takes 403.6 RWHP to get 450 at the crank with a vipers driveline loss.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That calculates out to a 10.3% driveline loss. Isn't that a little low? I thought the figure was a little higher (12-13%).

 

[RECOIL]

I thought most people used 15%. If that were true though, I would be making 490HP at the flywheel with my 00.

Steve

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

One more comment, as we look at numbers 6 through 9, I think we could come to the conclusion that the snake oyl rear exhaust is giving us around 9-10 rwhp all by itself. There was considerable discussion among some of us that it was nice for the sound but not much else, looks like we were wrong. Remember, a bone stock acr has filters and smooth tubes, right?

 

[RECOIL]

Lee,

Good call. Also note our torque difference.

Can't wait to take her to the next level this month.

Steve

 

[Jason Heffner]

I would like to send out thanks to all of those who participated as well as those who helped coordinate this event. Everyone seemed to have a great time, I know I sure did. See you all soon.

 

[zoomie]

Here are a few photos from the Heffner's Md/Va Club Dyno
Day. Everyone had a great day learning and watching the
dyno tests. Thanks Jason !
http://members2.photofun.com/zoomie/mdvadyno1st

 

[FikseGTS]

bad press for HMS means GTSR45 will be coming out soon....


Brooks