VCA Website Rumor
- Thread starter GR8_ASP
- Start date
Strange - no response beyond a PM or 2 confirming that it is indeed the case (that vendor posting privileges for the general forums have been revoked). Normally the mods or VCA leadership jumps to their defense to prove such a rumor as false. The silence is deafening.
Y2K5SRT
Enthusiast
Sorry, I don't think anybody saw your post. The Web Committee is currently working with several vendors (including your "grapevine") on our posting policies going forward. We have received numerous complaints about certain vendors abusing the system, hijacking threads for their own benefit, etc. We (the VCA) have even been accused of "commercializing" the website as there are so many vendor posts pushing product unchecked throughout the forums. One of the folks that moderates other auto-related forums (and bigger than this one) tells us they have never seen vendors make so many posts or allowed to mention their company name or products in the general forums like we have been allowing here.
Yesterday the vendors were notified that their posts would be largely restricted to the Vipers & Vendors category, of which there are numerous sub-forums. We have since learned that this is fine with many of the vendors (even encouraged by a couple), but that a couple others are pretty upset. We are working through several possible solutions to make everybody happy.
It is important to note that this site is NOT made possible by vendor support as some would have you believe. If we truly wanted to commercialize the site we would simply use Google Adsense/Adwords, IntelliTXT, or any of hundreds of programs that provide much, much better income. We offer advertising to bring limited income to the club, but more importantly to help our members and hopefully provide them with direct benefits from those same advertisers.
The bottom line is that we are working through alternatives right now. We spent two hours with two national officers on a cenference call with a vendor last night, while another national officer spent three hours replying by PM and e-mail to the other concerned vendor. Obviously this was not our intention (to spend time reassuring vendors) but at the same time our members and their concerns are ALWAYS our top priority.
Yesterday the vendors were notified that their posts would be largely restricted to the Vipers & Vendors category, of which there are numerous sub-forums. We have since learned that this is fine with many of the vendors (even encouraged by a couple), but that a couple others are pretty upset. We are working through several possible solutions to make everybody happy.
It is important to note that this site is NOT made possible by vendor support as some would have you believe. If we truly wanted to commercialize the site we would simply use Google Adsense/Adwords, IntelliTXT, or any of hundreds of programs that provide much, much better income. We offer advertising to bring limited income to the club, but more importantly to help our members and hopefully provide them with direct benefits from those same advertisers.
The bottom line is that we are working through alternatives right now. We spent two hours with two national officers on a cenference call with a vendor last night, while another national officer spent three hours replying by PM and e-mail to the other concerned vendor. Obviously this was not our intention (to spend time reassuring vendors) but at the same time our members and their concerns are ALWAYS our top priority.
eucharistos
Enthusiast
from the peanut gallery 
:
the current "level" does not bother me and is helpful to know who has what if ever needed. (fleebay used to be where i searched 1st, now i check site sponsors 1st largely b/c of their generous info sharing) most of the sponsor post are packed full of experience richness
esp if a noob posts with a problem, they may not know who (sponsor) has what they need and then get the fix info from this fine site then go to non-sponsor for the purchase.
you guys already thought about this i'm sure,
i guess my way of saying thanks to all
thanks
:the current "level" does not bother me and is helpful to know who has what if ever needed. (fleebay used to be where i searched 1st, now i check site sponsors 1st largely b/c of their generous info sharing) most of the sponsor post are packed full of experience richness
esp if a noob posts with a problem, they may not know who (sponsor) has what they need and then get the fix info from this fine site then go to non-sponsor for the purchase.
you guys already thought about this i'm sure
, i guess my way of saying thanks to all
thanks
viperdrummer
Enthusiast
I am not sure I am smart enough to understand all this.
Are we saying vendors cannot post in the General or SRT forums for instance? What if a vendor or vendor employee is also a VCA member? In another words if I post about a problem with my exhaust are we saying anyone except Jorgenson, to use an example, can respond? With everything else he is going through are we really throwing Chuck Tator out of the forums as well?
I also don't know what "largely restricted" means--seems like being kinda pregnant. These folks are either on or off aren't they?
Maybe it is just me but at a time when the entire Viper world is in a precarious position at best with a lot of unknowns out there, the last thing we need is a restriction on otherwise helpful information . I would deal with the abusers, and not have a wholesale restriction on these guys, some of whom are very helpful. .
Are we saying vendors cannot post in the General or SRT forums for instance? What if a vendor or vendor employee is also a VCA member? In another words if I post about a problem with my exhaust are we saying anyone except Jorgenson, to use an example, can respond? With everything else he is going through are we really throwing Chuck Tator out of the forums as well?
I also don't know what "largely restricted" means--seems like being kinda pregnant. These folks are either on or off aren't they?
Maybe it is just me but at a time when the entire Viper world is in a precarious position at best with a lot of unknowns out there, the last thing we need is a restriction on otherwise helpful information . I would deal with the abusers, and not have a wholesale restriction on these guys, some of whom are very helpful. .
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Smog Dog
Enthusiast
Too bad, because who comes to this forum? Not much action. The most active vendors usually have lots of interesting stuff to say, and I'd like to see it on the forums I frequent.
Bill
Bill
I have now heard from many of the "vendors." Some of which I would never have thought of as a vendor. Rather a member that in some way does business with Vipers.
I also want to give the benefit of the doubt to Chris and the gang. I personally have had strong feelings toward Chris, and do not want to let those negative vibes overwhelm an objective perspective. I do appreciate the informative response here and at the alley. If we keep to fact based discussions, as we have here, emotions do not get the better of us.
After reading through the info it seems that the bad that is to be dealt with is the direct sales tactics employed here and there. I think some level is to be expected, and in many ways desired. As with so few places to do Viper related business it is hard not to recommend the few that apply to a given issue.
However, the harm created when member/vendors (those who own a Viper and are normal members in addition to being a vendor) cannot act like members is not acceptable. Some are very strong contributors to these forums and their loss will be our loss. I see no way that the new forums will replace that contribution. Like Mark's discussions on the new Kumho tires a while back. Very informative and unrelated to the business at Woodhouse. Another would be the lubricant discussions with Tom, also completely unrelated to the brake kits he developed. And of course Chuck with his personal experience repairing these cars and passing that knowledge on to others. And lastly, and not leastly of course, would be JonB's posts from a long and varied history in Viperdom. These are just a few examples of the harm that was created.
Now it would be in poor taste to only criticize and not recommend a solution. I think we need to provide full posting priviliges to all regular members. Maybe a new rule could be placed that disallows active marketing on any of the general forums. That would not prevent recommendations as made by members themselves, but a prevention for a vendor from recommending their own service directly. One thing that would help in that cause would be to change the board signatures to eliminate the vendor related signature in the general forums. Allowing the signature only in the vendor related sections. I have no idea if something like that is possible. I am sure there are other possibilities so that members can post as members and vendors can post as vendors in kind of a Jekyll and Hyde kind of way. When a vendor may be driven to provide his/her personal recommendation for their own service or product maybe then is when a reference to the vendor forum occurs with the vendor dialogue occuring on the vendor forum. Maybe by creating a new post in that section with a link placed in the general section. That would be an alternative to moving the entire post to the vendor or new "snake" section if it contains dialogue that aplies to the general forum, as most end up doing.
In conclusion this is a very creative group of people. I am sure if the issue is posed properly that a good overall recommendation can be made. We need to run this club like a club and not a business with a CEO and board making what appears to be dictums. One way to help in that regard is to involve the membership when issues arise and to generate ideas and solutions. You just might be amazed at how open and honest that would be perceived.
I also want to give the benefit of the doubt to Chris and the gang. I personally have had strong feelings toward Chris, and do not want to let those negative vibes overwhelm an objective perspective. I do appreciate the informative response here and at the alley. If we keep to fact based discussions, as we have here, emotions do not get the better of us.
After reading through the info it seems that the bad that is to be dealt with is the direct sales tactics employed here and there. I think some level is to be expected, and in many ways desired. As with so few places to do Viper related business it is hard not to recommend the few that apply to a given issue.
However, the harm created when member/vendors (those who own a Viper and are normal members in addition to being a vendor) cannot act like members is not acceptable. Some are very strong contributors to these forums and their loss will be our loss. I see no way that the new forums will replace that contribution. Like Mark's discussions on the new Kumho tires a while back. Very informative and unrelated to the business at Woodhouse. Another would be the lubricant discussions with Tom, also completely unrelated to the brake kits he developed. And of course Chuck with his personal experience repairing these cars and passing that knowledge on to others. And lastly, and not leastly of course, would be JonB's posts from a long and varied history in Viperdom. These are just a few examples of the harm that was created.
Now it would be in poor taste to only criticize and not recommend a solution. I think we need to provide full posting priviliges to all regular members. Maybe a new rule could be placed that disallows active marketing on any of the general forums. That would not prevent recommendations as made by members themselves, but a prevention for a vendor from recommending their own service directly. One thing that would help in that cause would be to change the board signatures to eliminate the vendor related signature in the general forums. Allowing the signature only in the vendor related sections. I have no idea if something like that is possible. I am sure there are other possibilities so that members can post as members and vendors can post as vendors in kind of a Jekyll and Hyde kind of way. When a vendor may be driven to provide his/her personal recommendation for their own service or product maybe then is when a reference to the vendor forum occurs with the vendor dialogue occuring on the vendor forum. Maybe by creating a new post in that section with a link placed in the general section. That would be an alternative to moving the entire post to the vendor or new "snake" section if it contains dialogue that aplies to the general forum, as most end up doing.
In conclusion this is a very creative group of people. I am sure if the issue is posed properly that a good overall recommendation can be made. We need to run this club like a club and not a business with a CEO and board making what appears to be dictums. One way to help in that regard is to involve the membership when issues arise and to generate ideas and solutions. You just might be amazed at how open and honest that would be perceived.
Fatboy 18
Enthusiast
+1 Sorry VCA but this can not be the way forward
I first found out about this via the UK PistonHeads web site where us UK guys hang out.Most evenings I visit the VCA site and look forward to reading tips and replies from Vendors like Mr Tator and Jon B, Sure there is a bit of advertising involved in regard to posting but its the enthusiasm I love
Its what makes us all one family I would like to ask the VCA committee to reconsider this decision. The forums will be a sadder place without them
This evening I have been looking around on the VCA website trying to find where the vendor forums are! I have found the Vendor review section, but this is basically just saying thanks for receiving a shipment etc
I'm sorry to say, I would rather have the site back to how it was.Mark
2000 FAST RED creampuff GTS
viperdrummer
Enthusiast
Let me just add that I am a member of numerous car and boat sites including the Vette forums, Caddy forums, BMW forums-----NO ONE DOES THIS. I am not sure what folks were thinking when they came up with this but I would suggest we do an Obama 180 and save face. This is ill advised but everyone makes mistakes and has hiccups.
Our breathren over at the Alley would have a field day with this. I love this site and the folks on it and have been on it since day one and longer than most administrators (but have not put in the thankless time and effort that they have) Guys, drop this now before it blows up big time. The timing could not be worse. Who is going to tell Tator, Woodhouse, Jon et al they can't post in any forum they want to ??
Again, I love this site, and I won't move over to other Viper boards. But I am just old enough, crutchety enough and fortunately financially well off enough to start a new site of my own that will be bigger than this one if we start going down this road.
No offense guys but let's get out in front of this one and reverse course. Respectfully,
Our breathren over at the Alley would have a field day with this. I love this site and the folks on it and have been on it since day one and longer than most administrators (but have not put in the thankless time and effort that they have) Guys, drop this now before it blows up big time. The timing could not be worse. Who is going to tell Tator, Woodhouse, Jon et al they can't post in any forum they want to ??
Again, I love this site, and I won't move over to other Viper boards. But I am just old enough, crutchety enough and fortunately financially well off enough to start a new site of my own that will be bigger than this one if we start going down this road.
No offense guys but let's get out in front of this one and reverse course. Respectfully,
Let me get this straight. Chrysler is in bankruptcy. We may lose some or all of any financial support we now receive, if any, from Chrysler. The Viper Enterprise may or may not continue depending on what happens by June 8th. Within this context, the VCA has now chosen to be critical of vendors who support this site? This is an absurd strategy. If one or more vendors appear to be promoting a bit too much in their posts, someone should just pick up the telephone and have a freindly chat about it with them. There was/is no need for a Rule change. The other thing that bothers me about what has occurred is the star chamber nature of the initial action. Who complained? About whom? I am on this site fairly frequently and the only thing that I have noticed recently that seems a bit annoying is the increase in the number of posts by Members who have placed an add in the classifieds and wish to notify us of same. Unlike the vendors, many of these people have never contributed any significant data to the site to further the membership's knowledge and understanding of Vipers. In the case of quite a few of the vendors, they have contributed a great deal of knowledge and experience which I, for one, have found valuable. JM2Cs
viperdrummer
Enthusiast
Extremely well said --you must be a lawyer (I knew that) and like me if a client came to us with this idea we would say "have you lost your freaking mind". (and I won't get into why we would render such advice)
Simms
Enthusiast
I have to agree with Bob. Most of the vendors offer way too much help and knowledge to not allow them to post in general forums. Can the vendors abusing the system just be warned or the excessive posts deleted?
Another suggestion: Could new web site policies be posted for review in the member section for some period of time before being invoked. That could have avoided several issues over time. Then there is less sensitivy regarding the policy and comments for and against are public. Here we are only told some vendors reviewed and indicated the policy would be "fine" but there is no ownership placed. Open and honest includes some degree of accountability.
F8L SNK
Enthusiast
I get a tremendous benefit from reading the general forums and the responses by the vendors in said sections. I have never been bothered by the "free advertising" some of them give themselves because they help so much. I have been unable to find a true technical forum for Vipers, and the closest I have seen is about to go away. I don't want to have to go to each vendors section to read what they may and may not say. I rather go to a Gen I, II, III, and wish there was a IV to find this out as people post issues they have in these forums. It will make things much harder to navigate in my opinion, please change it back with some other "no spam" rule in effect.
93VIPERBOY
Enthusiast
Leave the site the way it has been, If a Vendor gets out of hand let him know. I have learned a lot a very usefull info from some of the venodrs.
rcl4668
Enthusiast
My 2 cents as a VCA member: I did not think the previous system needed fixing and the restrictions that have been placed as the result of one or a few "bad apples" is far outweighed by the positive contributions, insight and information provided within relevant threads by many helpful vendors on this site, including but not limited to Jon B, Mark at Woodhouse, Luke at Tirerack etc.
I would respectfully ask the VCA officers and site adminstrators undo this new policy. Thanks for listening.
/Rich
I would respectfully ask the VCA officers and site adminstrators undo this new policy. Thanks for listening.
/Rich
93 Cobra R
Enthusiast
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I haven't been a member of the VCA or of this site as long as most, so I realize my opinion is only a whisper to the majority of voices here, but I do agree that vendors should be allowed to post throughout this site. I have learned a great deal from folks like Tator, JonB, and others. Had it not been for these individuals who FREELY gave their time and shared knowledge to me (and others), my experience as a Viper owner most likely would not be to the level it is today. Therefore, I motion that the vendors retain their privileges.
FREEDOM!!
oops wrong movie line lol
FREEDOM!!
oops wrong movie line lol +1 ..... Well said Bob.
Bad move Chris
I have heard a lot of things about what people said would or wouldn't happen with the VCA but gave the benefit of a doubt but sadly I was wrong it seems. I can understand gathering info on what other groups do and find success with but the VCA is not your average car club and does not have your average car club members or vendors. Regarding the comment about how other "larger" forums handle their vendors..... Who cares! We are VERY LUCKY to have such helpful, devoted, informative, and ACTIVE vendors involved with our club. We are the "VIPER NATION" not just for our members but because of all the active vendors, and suppliers. Lets not forget the many of these businesses are in business almost solely for the viper and if they don't get everyones support not only will they lose but all viper owners will lose as well. Not many vendors provide parts and services for vipers so lets not silence the ones that do and support the VCA.I would also to suggest that the next time the VCA officers decide to make such a drastic change to the web site that they ask the opinions of the members before putting the change into effect.
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Mopar Boy
Enthusiast
Most of these vendors are also VCA members. Do they still not have some right to use the entire forum?
I do see why this issue has come up, but I do not like the direction this would go. Many people just post in the general forum and many times the usefull answers come from the vendors as they have done said question before. Yes I understand that when there is too much in your face buy from me type of posts it becomes a pain, but on the other hand is that not part of what being a site sponsor is about? From the site sposor side, that is THE reason they sponsor the site. To get business from it. Speaking from the consumer end of it, I have many times found it usefull to get the experience and suggestions from these experts.
Do I want to see the webboards as a online swapmeet, no. Maybe what is needed is common sense. If excessive "buy from me" posts are being posted when uncalled for, maybe a PM is needed to that vendor instead of restricting all of them.
Dunno. Just thinking.....
Robert
I do see why this issue has come up, but I do not like the direction this would go. Many people just post in the general forum and many times the usefull answers come from the vendors as they have done said question before. Yes I understand that when there is too much in your face buy from me type of posts it becomes a pain, but on the other hand is that not part of what being a site sponsor is about? From the site sposor side, that is THE reason they sponsor the site. To get business from it. Speaking from the consumer end of it, I have many times found it usefull to get the experience and suggestions from these experts.
Do I want to see the webboards as a online swapmeet, no. Maybe what is needed is common sense. If excessive "buy from me" posts are being posted when uncalled for, maybe a PM is needed to that vendor instead of restricting all of them.
Dunno. Just thinking.....
Robert
Y2K5SRT
Enthusiast
Robert -
This has already been settled and all is right again with the world...
A pleasure,
Chris
This has already been settled and all is right again with the world...
A pleasure,
Chris
Mopar Boy
Enthusiast
Go away for a weekend and I miss everything.........
It is tuff to be a professional slacker!
Thanks Chris! Sorry for bringing up old news!
It is tuff to be a professional slacker!
Thanks Chris! Sorry for bringing up old news!
I can post again! YAY! Phew...I thought I got kicked off again. LOL!
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