VERY FRUSTRATED!!! HAVE one last post before i loose it.

[ViperGeorge]

Is the silent injector for the cylinder that had the white/wet spark plug? It could be stuck open or otherwise broken if it is but I would still expect to see a CEL for a misfire in that cylinder. If it is stuck open then disconnecting the wire probably wouldn't do anything to fix it unless it was some kind of tuning problem that kept the injector open.

 

[FLX109]

Nate,
Did you install the Injector resistor box with your install? If not you would be running really Rich and burn out your Vec.
just a thought

 

[Nates GTS Viper]

The resistor box is that black box thats in between the vec and the injector harness?

 

[1TONY1]

The resistor box is that black box thats in between the vec and the injector harness?

That's it. It's needed for the latest Roe injectors but not the earlier light green or dark blue ones.

 

[Nates GTS Viper]

Yeah I have it and its hooked up. Do you think if I unhooked the two rear injectors that seem to be flooding the engine out that it would stop the smoke out the exhaust if thats whats causing the smoke? Just wondering.

 

[plumcrazy]

i dont know what bavaria is like but its obviously NOTHING like NNJ. 800+ is not enough around these parts....i havent been beat but there are PLENTY of cars around here to hand me my @$$

 

[Russ M]

Nate,

I may be missing it with all the people chiming in here with useless or wrong info but what happened to the spark plug pictures, exhaust smoke pictures?

If I were you the first thing would be to remove the vec and any form of it put in the factory injectors and start the car up. If it runs fine then you know its nothing mechanical and vec related. But you mentioned that the smoke is blue and if so that is NOT fuel, blue smoke is oil anyone that says otherwise needs to stop giving out advice.

 

[ViperGeorge]

Nate,

I may be missing it with all the people chiming in here with useless or wrong info but what happened to the spark plug pictures, exhaust smoke pictures?

If I were you the first thing would be to remove the vec and any form of it put in the factory injectors and start the car up. If it runs fine then you know its nothing mechanical and vec related. But you mentioned that the smoke is blue and if so that is NOT fuel, blue smoke is oil anyone that says otherwise needs to stop giving out advice.

It would probably be a good idea for Nate to repost all the info he has so far in a single post. Including the steps he's taken to diagnose the car.

As far as I know

He's repeatedly thrown a CEL for a idle air controller despite trying to clean it.

He's read the plugs (but not posted pics), he indicated that all the plugs but one are sooty, one plug is white but wet with gas.

He has not indicated a CEL for a misfire on the white/wet plug cylinder or others. This surprises me.

He has said one injector is silent but I don't know if it is the injector servicing the white/wet plug.

He's indicated the smoke is bluish (oil), but he also indicated the car burns through copious amounts of fuel which should make the smoke black.

He said the oil looked ok but it was fresh.

He's tried a new tune from Sean but still runs crappy.

The engine appears not to be making any unusual internal noises (although that might not last).

He has stated that the engine ground was loose or disconnected and then fixed.

He said that the VEC injector resistor box (whatever that is) is installed.

Anything else????

 

[ViperGeorge]

It might also be helpful to summarize all the recommendations in one post. Like doing a compression check. Swapping out the IAC, etc.

 

[NHL2133]

Nate,

I may be missing it with all the people chiming in here with useless or wrong info but what happened to the spark plug pictures, exhaust smoke pictures?

If I were you the first thing would be to remove the vec and any form of it put in the factory injectors and start the car up. If it runs fine then you know its nothing mechanical and vec related. But you mentioned that the smoke is blue and if so that is NOT fuel, blue smoke is oil anyone that says otherwise needs to stop giving out advice.

They are right here, sorry for the delay...

Plug #2

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#3

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#4

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#5

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#6

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#7

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#8

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#9

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#10

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I'll let Nate explain the pics.

 

[Russ M]

All except 5 & 10 show extreemly rich condition, 5 looks like there is no spark or fuel, 10 looks like it may be covered with oil?

I cant tell by the pictures but do any of them especially 10 have oil on them?

Other things that I cant tell by the pictures for sure is 2,3,4,7 look like detonation on the electrode. A much larger resolution picture would tell the story.

And what happened to #1?

 

[Nates GTS Viper]

Thanks for posting the pics nhl and as for the size of the pics i made them smaller so that I could email them to nhl and so they would be easeir to put up on the board. Also if detonation looks like little white spots on the otherwise black plugs then thats what it would be. #10 is getting fire and the smell of whats on the plug was gas along with number 5. Also just so its clear #5 is the drivers side rear plug and #10 is the passenger side rear plug. #1 looked black and sooty like the others just came out to fuzzy to post.

Also i took the two rear plug wires off #5 and #10 and put extra plugs I had in them to watch and see if they were getting spark and they were.

 

[BOTTLEFED]

nope, its odd on the driver side and even on the passenger side
L == R
1 == 2
3 == 4
5 == 6
7 == 8
9 ==10

 

[BOTTLEFED]

Russ and gbatejan are right
we need to stay on topic and get rid of the useless drivel about whether to mod or not - that is not what he asked for - keep your opinions to yourself

we need to help Nate figure this out, but he needs to get down to the basics and start from there

 

[BOTTLEFED]

if you really counted 1-5 on dr-side and 6-10 on pas-side then this should correct it
the rear 2 plugs always run rich, especially on a Roe

we still need #1

Plug #3

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#5

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#7

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#9

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#2

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#4

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#6

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#8

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#10

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[Nates GTS Viper]

I know theres mixed feeling on this but if i was to unhook the vec and start the car with the roe injecors in it would that tell us anything or not? Also sorry for the confusion on the plug numbers going 2 days with no sleep is a little rough on the brain.

 

[Nates GTS Viper]

Ok guys I have two new updates.

1) Now that the car has been started a few times and the oil has been cycled through the enginge I checked it for color and smell. It still looks like regular oil, it isnt any thinner, but it does have a gas odor to it.

2) Im not sure about how he fuel injectors work as far as getting stuck open (do they still need an electric current to stay open?) but I did unhook the connectors to the two rear injectors #9 and #10 to see what would happen. The car started a little rough then smoothed out. It then ran for 2 or 3 minutes without smoking at all. By this point it would have alread been smoking like crazy. I then shut the car off becuase I noticed that I still had the #3 plug wire off from where I was checking for spark lastnight. After reinstalling that plugwire I then started the car back up. It then ran a few seconds 30 maybe and started to smoke a little. It then began to smoke some but nothing like it had been previously. The car then cut off from running out of gas.

I dont know if the air idle control valve will help any of these issues but Im still throwing that code and am ordering one tomarow.

Please let me know what you all think. Also can someone give me a worst case best case opinion on the oil smelling like gas? Thanks

 

[1TONY1]

I know theres mixed feeling on this but if i was to unhook the vec and start the car with the roe injecors in it would that tell us anything or not? Also sorry for the confusion on the plug numbers going 2 days with no sleep is a little rough on the brain.

The vec cuts the injector duty cycle way down when not in boost....a % amount. Without it, it will certainly be very rich...it "may" run or may not. The only reason I can see to try that is if you had an injector not opening or closing......but if that were the case I would take the resistor box out of line first (little black box)
You need a mechanics stethoscope to check them....harbor freight almost gives them away

 

[plumcrazy]

if the oil smells like gas, change it right away in my opinion

 

[EllowViper]

I'd love to see your basic tune since I'm running a very similar setup...plus I can send you my 10 PSI tune too. EMail it to me at [email protected]. I'm on the road in Nebraska but I've got my laptop with me and my VEC program. I can take a look at it.

 

[Brentt]

It seems like your biggest problems started after you got stuck in the thunderstorm. This indicates moisture got somewhere it shouldn't be. You replaced the VEC but have you checked everything else. If this was my 69 Camaro I'd say it had
moisture in the distributor cap. A few shots of WD-40 to dry it out and it would be fine.

 

[Russ M]

Nate,

We need to get back to basics here something is very wrong so lets see if we can figure out what that something is.

1) Change oil, if there is alot of fuel in your oil thats a bad thing.
2) Change your plugs
3) Remove the Vec and the bigger injectors and put the factory ones in.
4) Forget about your idle air motor it can not and will not cause your problem.

When you did all this start the car up and see how it idles, if its as it should be drive it around the block make sure you DO NOT get on it at all. Drive it part throttle just to verify that its running normal.

Once you do that then we can move on.

PS. MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT DRIVE THE CAR, GET ON THE CAR, RACE THE CAR. Otherwise you may cause lots and lots of damage.

 

[Jack B]

Thanks for posting the pics nhl and as for the size of the pics i made them smaller so that I could email them to nhl and so they would be easeir to put up on the board. Also if detonation looks like little white spots on the otherwise black plugs then thats what it would be. #10 is getting fire and the smell of whats on the plug was gas along with number 5. Also just so its clear #5 is the drivers side rear plug and #10 is the passenger side rear plug. #1 looked black and sooty like the others just came out to fuzzy to post.

Also i took the two rear plug wires off #5 and #10 and put extra plugs I had in them to watch and see if they were getting spark and they were.

The first signs of detonation are a pepper like appearance on the insulator.

One more thought - although not like a wideband, the oem O2 voltage can be viewed with a scan tool. You will be able to see if it is staying in the rich state.

 

[pteam]

I gotta say you guys helping out this guy is really amazing. Its amazing that you guys can diagnose his car like that over the internet!

 

[Joseph Dell]

I gotta say you guys helping out this guy is really amazing. Its amazing that you guys can diagnose his car like that over the internet!

American cars are incredibly simple. There isn't a lot too them. I've even seen people TUNE cars over the internet, in near real-time.

And you thought the internet was just for ****...

 

[BOTTLEFED]

**** is the only reason I use the internet

helping people with their cars is what I do while I'm recuperating from the ****

 

[BOTTLEFED]

Nate, make sure you disconnect the VEC from both the fuel harness and the ignition harness. It won't run if the ignition is still spliced in. Then just remove the fuse from the VEC power.

It would still be helpful as well to connect a good live data scan tool so you can monitor your LTFTs and check the workings of your sensors, such as O2s, ECT, and TPS. But first things first.

 

[Nates GTS Viper]

The scan tool i rented from autozone doesnt have all the real time data stuff but what I will do is return that one and buy one of the good ones seeing as how it will be a great investment now and in the future. As soon as im able (either tuesday or wensday by the latest) ill disconect the vec and try starting it up. Ill also change the oil and use the new scan tool im going to invest in.

It is amazing that so many are so willing to help me out. You all are great and helping me get through this I will owe you all greatly. Thanks again to everyone.

 

[ViperGTS]

>>> ... cars around here to hand me my @$$<<<

I truly do not care - because....there is and there will be always another faster car whatever you do to your car

 

[dave6666]

Russ and gbatejan are right
we need to stay on topic and get rid of the useless drivel about whether to mod or not - that is not what he asked for - keep your opinions to yourself

we need to help Nate figure this out, but he needs to get down to the basics and start from there

**** is the only reason I use the internet

helping people with their cars is what I do while I'm recuperating from the ****

No one likes someone with double standards. Like you.

Yeah, just *** does admitting an addiction to **** have to do with fixing the car.

Keep your perverted habits to yourself. That is not what he asked for.