Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Police

[dipapa]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

I missed Bad Bee's post explaining what happened in more detail. I have edited it a bit. He said:

Hi there. I am the bad guy in the yellow viper. Here are the real facts. The guy in the pickup admitted to trying to hit me head on. If I did not swerve, he would have hit me. When I looked in the rearview mirror, he was all the way in my lane in oncoming traffic. I turned around because I thought he was drunk. That's why I did not provoke him in any way. When he pulled over, I did so as well so I could call the cops. I was not going to let him get away because if he had killed a family down the road I would have never forgiven myself. I have 3 girls and a wife.

Bravo Bad Bee. You took some risk but your reasons for doing so were good ones. I am glad that the truck driver did not jump out of his truck and shoot you. This has happened in Miami in road rage incidents. Not frequently, but it has happened.

Yes Bob, Thank you for confirming life dealing with road rage in Miami is no different from Los Angeles.

When at work for as long as i can remember with the news on in the break room half the floor would show up for the monthly meeting of a police chase scene somewhere in the city. I honestly never saw the bad guy get away. i did see a few fatalities occur which was kinda sad it went that far.

I still think So Cal is the performance Car capital of this country though?

Any comments on that?

 

[Bobpantax]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

Your question is not on point with respect to the subject matter of this thread. However, the question:

Do you think that Southern California is the automobile performance capital of the United States? would probably make a good new thread and precipitate a spirited debate. You should post it in the "Driven" subforum and see what happens.

 

[Venomiss]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

Your question is not on point with respect to the subject matter of this thread. However, the question:

Do you think that Southern California is the automobile performance capital of the United States? would probably make a good new thread and precipitate a spirited debate. You should post it in the "Driven" subforum and see what happens.

Only if he can stop here first maybe?
http://forums.viperclub.org/new-owner-questions/603453-new-viper-owner-time-join-vca.html:)

"Always do right! This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."
-– Mark Twain

 

[Chrissss]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

I seriously doubt the driver was actually charged with attempted vehicular manslaughter. There is no way a prosecutor would go forward on such a charge. Believe me, even the video wouldn't support such a extreme charge. Turning around because of a temper tantrum was at the very least foolish.

 

[Bad Bee]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

Owner of truck was not charged with attempted manslaughter but assault,endangering a child(children),crossing into incoming lanes and a few more things as well.He did admit to trying to hit me the first time.I am not sure if the last post was tlking about me temper tantrum or the other driver.Its almost like theses posts are not real because the things said make no sense.Where did it show a temper,guy tried to hit me head on I almost lost my life there then I turn around to call cops because I believe he is drunk wow thats off the charts.

 

[PatentLaw]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

I looked at the video several times.

The first case of near contact between the two vehicles is interesting.

If you watch really closely you will notice that the Viper is in the left hand lane. Next to him is a center lane that provides a solid line to the Viper's direction of travel. This "open" lane is used for only left hand turns into drive ways on the road from traffic heading in the direction of the SUV/Truck.

The SUV/Truck made A LEFT HAND TURN at the light, thus entering this lane, presumably early, so he could get around traffic at the light.

You can also notice that THERE ARE NO LEFT HAND TURNS for the direction of travel of the Viper, thus traffic in the Vipers direction should NEVER have been in that lane. Indeed, look at the traffic after the incident. Nobody uses this no-mans lane from the Vipers direction of travel. It is only used by traffic in the SUV's direction. There even appears to be arrows on the ground, indicating that if anyone is in that lane, they should use it to turn left.

So we have an SUV, using the left hand turn lane early. It cannot be determined from the tape if the SUV actually even crossed into the Vipers lane of travel.

Thus, we have an supposedly admitting SUV driver saying that he attempted to ram the Viper, while arguably being in a lane that he may have been authorized to be in. It was a close call between two vehicles. The speed was nowhere near excessive.

Does an admission rise to the level of attempted manslaughter when the individual had only made an minor traffic violation?

My guess on the incident is that since excessive speed was not present here, and that since it appears to be a left hand turn lane for only the SUVs travel direction, the SUV driver will be negotiated into a reckless driving ticket. While I am not licensed in Colorado, the above seems reasonable.

Also, there may be an attempt at the SUV driver "admitting" to going after the Viper driver only AFTER the light because he was worried about the car following him. That is where the "admission" may come into play, not for the first incident.

One last comment that I don't think has been made, however, that I think a judge will pick up on. The Viper turns around and proceeds to the light behind the SUV. The Viper was not flashing his lights or honking his horn at the guy. You can tell from the lack of sound and the lack of a reflection in the tailgate of the SUV.

The Viper ONLY travels for TWENTY seconds before the SUV pulls over and drives BACKWARDS at him. It is not like the Viper was tailing him for 2 or 3 minutes. It was only for 20 seconds. Such drastic action by the SUV after only 20 seconds is way out of what would be considered reasonable, in my opinion. If the SUV driver did not think that he did something wrong to the Viper driver, why would he take such drastic action after only 20 seconds of traveling down the road? Why the fear? There was no overt threat generated by the Viper. No horn. No lights. No excessive speed. Nothing. All he did was make an illegal U turn. The SUV's actions in the second incident speak very loudly.

Interesting case.

 

[ViperGTS]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

>>>He did admit to trying to hit me the first time<<<

That was my impression watching the video.

That guy needs some serious punishment.

 

[WILDASP]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

The comments some of you have posted here exemplify one of the many things that have gone wrong in our society; to wit an attitude that goes something like this: "Don't get involved, don't do anything, if there's a chance you might get hurt. Let Big Brother handle it, let the police handle it (never mind they aren't around), but whatever you do, let someone else handle it, no matter what "it" is. Drunk driver, reckless driver, road rage, or even criminal acts - don't get involved; good grief, you might get hurt, might get sued, might even have to testify in court! Let the crime happen, let the criminal run free. It's not your problem, certainly not when there's no immediate threat to you; hey, so what if someone else gets hurt; not your responsibility." That's not new, in those "large, diverse urban areas" you speak of; back in the sixties, forty or more people in New York stood around, or watched from their windows, while Kitty Genovese was murdered, in plain view on the street; while she screamed for help, no one intervened, no one even called the police, no one wanted to get involved. You know, you big city folks often mock those of us out here (or down here) in "flyover country". Well, call us stupid, but that's not the way we do things. Thank God, when we see someone in distress, we act; we get involved. When something threatens us, or our neighbors, we get involved. When we see something wrong, we report it, and if the police aren't at hand, we intervene ourselves; you see, we have this quaint idea that we actually ARE responsible for what goes on in our neighborhoods, that we ARE responsible for what happens on our streets, that we ARE "our brother's keeper".

I can remember when that was the prevailing attitude in most of America; not anymore. Too often, in a society grown ever more risk-averse, more litigious, more fearful, and yes, more selfish, it's easier to pretend that it's all up to the government, and therefore it's OK to turn our head, and look the other way, uncaring and uninvolved. Then we wonder why things get worse by the day.

Let's take an honest look at what really happened here. Mark encountered a reckless driver, who as it turned out, WAS trying to hit him. He followed to get the plate number, and then, when that driver, (with children in his vehicle) went into Mark's neighborhood, her followed; not in a high speed pursuit, mind you; he just followed, while maintaining contact with the police until the subject was stopped and apprehended. That's not a bad thing; that's CONSTRUCTIVE involvement, and in this case, it resulted in the offender going to jail (where the authorities seem to believe he belongs). That's not "vigilantism", that's doing the right thing! Now, some of you want to criticize his actions. Would it have been better to simply let this guy go into Mark's neighborhood, and perhaps injure or kill someone else, or the two children who were with him? If YOU saw something like that, and did nothing, and an innocent neighbor's child were killed as a result, how well would YOU sleep that night? Or would you simply say, "Oh well, it wasn't my responsibility, and if the cops had been there, this wouldn't have happened; why, it's THEIR failure, not mine!" That last attitude, is a symptom of what's wrong with our society, and the truth be told, it probably would be the attitude of a number of you who have posted here, and why not; it's the easier way, the safer way, isn't it?

I can't buy that, and I won't; and apparently, neither will Mark. Maybe we're fools, and maybe it really doesn't matter; but what I do know, is that everything that is good, and right, and decent about our society, has come from the actions of people who DIDN'T look the other way, DIDN'T "just let it go", but stood up, manned up, and got involved, without regard to personal risk, when the authorities were not at hand, or even worse, ignored the situation themselves. There are still a few people like that around, and I hope there always will be.

 

[ViperGTS]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

Well said.

Did the guy say why he tried to hit Mark's car?
May be because it was a "Viper" or just a random act of getting insane ?

 

[CitySnake]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

What I find to be the most concerning aspect of this discussion is why there is such polarization of opinions. Why must the actions of those who choose to "get involved" immediately be considered vigilantism while those that express fear of serious retribution be called "wimps" with an "unAmerican attitude"?

There's SO much room for both arguments to be reasonable.

 

[LifeIsGood]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

The comments some of you have posted here exemplify one of the many things that have gone wrong in our society; to wit an attitude that goes something like this: "Don't get involved, don't do anything, if there's a chance you might get hurt. Let Big Brother handle it, let the police handle it (never mind they aren't around), but whatever you do, let someone else handle it, no matter what "it" is. Drunk driver, reckless driver, road rage, or even criminal acts - don't get involved; good grief, you might get hurt, might get sued, might even have to testify in court! Let the crime happen, let the criminal run free. It's not your problem, certainly not when there's no immediate threat to you; hey, so what if someone else gets hurt; not your responsibility." That's not new, in those "large, diverse urban areas" you speak of; back in the sixties, forty or more people in New York stood around, or watched from their windows, while Kitty Genovese was murdered, in plain view on the street; while she screamed for help, no one intervened, no one even called the police, no one wanted to get involved. You know, you big city folks often mock those of us out here (or down here) in "flyover country". Well, call us stupid, but that's not the way we do things. Thank God, when we see someone in distress, we act; we get involved. When something threatens us, or our neighbors, we get involved. When we see something wrong, we report it, and if the police aren't at hand, we intervene ourselves; you see, we have this quaint idea that we actually ARE responsible for what goes on in our neighborhoods, that we ARE responsible for what happens on our streets, that we ARE "our brother's keeper".

I can remember when that was the prevailing attitude in most of America; not anymore. Too often, in a society grown ever more risk-averse, more litigious, more fearful, and yes, more selfish, it's easier to pretend that it's all up to the government, and therefore it's OK to turn our head, and look the other way, uncaring and uninvolved. Then we wonder why things get worse by the day.

Let's take an honest look at what really happened here. Mark encountered a reckless driver, who as it turned out, WAS trying to hit him. He followed to get the plate number, and then, when that driver, (with children in his vehicle) went into Mark's neighborhood, her followed; not in a high speed pursuit, mind you; he just followed, while maintaining contact with the police until the subject was stopped and apprehended. That's not a bad thing; that's CONSTRUCTIVE involvement, and in this case, it resulted in the offender going to jail (where the authorities seem to believe he belongs). That's not "vigilantism", that's doing the right thing! Now, some of you want to criticize his actions. Would it have been better to simply let this guy go into Mark's neighborhood, and perhaps injure or kill someone else, or the two children who were with him? If YOU saw something like that, and did nothing, and an innocent neighbor's child were killed as a result, how well would YOU sleep that night? Or would you simply say, "Oh well, it wasn't my responsibility, and if the cops had been there, this wouldn't have happened; why, it's THEIR failure, not mine!" That last attitude, is a symptom of what's wrong with our society, and the truth be told, it probably would be the attitude of a number of you who have posted here, and why not; it's the easier way, the safer way, isn't it?

I can't buy that, and I won't; and apparently, neither will Mark. Maybe we're fools, and maybe it really doesn't matter; but what I do know, is that everything that is good, and right, and decent about our society, has come from the actions of people who DIDN'T look the other way, DIDN'T "just let it go", but stood up, manned up, and got involved, without regard to personal risk, when the authorities were not at hand, or even worse, ignored the situation themselves. There are still a few people like that around, and I hope there always will be.

Oh my goodness...what have you done...you're gonna have the wrath of the geritol viper nation upon you...they sure wouldn't let it go when I was posting in this thread. Thanks for having real American values, not polictically correct let someone else handle it attitude as the majority of the earlier posters have . Let's see if I remember correctly...

We have families...we can't possbily get involved.

It may have gotten dangerous.

Mark acted recklessly...oh my goodness, he did a u-turn that must have pissed the poor innocent feller off.

Mark followed him too close which must have pissed the poor calm feller off.

Mark chased him through the neighborhood...speaking for all my neighbors, we don't want that type of vigilantism here.

I've watched the video numerous times...no agressiveness at all by Mark...except when he was getting the hell away from the criminal.

I know that I feel better. Flame away geritol viper nation . (clarity for the less fortunate...geritol viper nation is a subset of the entire viper nation, not meaning everybody)

 

[HHI VIPER]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

I agree with everyone,Mark should have ignored it and let the government take care of it! Not our problem! His kids splattered on someones windshield due to his anger issues is not our concern and the government can and will know whats best for all of us!

"SERIOUSLY" goldcup??? And not take him off the road before he gets his kids hurt/killed or another person???? COME ON!!!! It came out for the better I think in this particular situation! No harm came to anybody and it could have prevented a worse situation later on! By this happening he'll think twice (hopefully) before he tries this stunt again. Good job Mark!!! You could have saved a life somewhere down the line!

 

[dipapa]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

I want to see more videos of the innocent guy with the big heart that tries to make a difference and says " oh Martha, do you believe that he ALMOST hit me, I gotta go stop him" attitude getting WHACKED... Or better yet living the rest of his life in a wheel chair drooling with his momma feeding him through a straw!

 

[LifeIsGood]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

I want to see more videos of the innocent guy with the big heart that tries to make a difference and says " oh Martha, do you believe that he ALMOST hit me, I gotta go stop him" attitude getting WHACKED... Or better yet living the rest of his life in a wheel chair drooling with his momma feeding him through a straw!

Very nice...thanks for the valuable contributions to this thread .

 

[dipapa]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

Kinda crazy stuff. It's not a matter of people not getting involved being considered weak or uncaring citizens. My point is the only time ANYONE wins in road rage situation is by backing off AND calling the cops or letting it go, everything else is just people trying to have more fun and games and taking it to the next level.

 

[LifeIsGood]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

Kinda crazy stuff. It's not a matter of people not getting involved being considered weak or uncaring citizens. My point is the only time ANYONE wins in road rage situation is by backing off AND calling the cops or letting it go, everything else is just people trying to have more fun and games and taking it to the next level.

Wow, that is actually a perceptible augument...the first I've seen you make in this thread...thanks for getting back on point. I agree with you in instances of road rage, but I still believe that Mark thought that this episode was possibly something other than road rage .

 

[dipapa]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

When situations as this arise its ALWAYS considered "ROAD RAGE" and for its stupidity it causes allot of problems on the road and from what I have witnessed it tends to snowball...The more of it that occurs, the more people see, the more people think its alright to do and here we go further bettering social life in America.

Do you drive allot and is there anyone else on the roads where you drive?

 

[WILDASP]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

Oh my goodness...what have you done...you're gonna have the wrath of the geritol viper nation upon you...they sure wouldn't let it go when I was posting in this thread. Thanks for having real American values, not polictically correct let someone else handle it attitude as the majority of the earlier posters have . Let's see if I remember correctly...


I've watched the video numerous times...no agressiveness at all by Mark...except when he was getting the hell away from the criminal.

I know that I feel better. Flame away geritol viper nation . (clarity for the less fortunate...geritol viper nation is a subset of the entire viper nation, not meaning everybody)

Ken,
You know, I don't care what others think. I've heard it all a thousand times:
"You can't do that, you have a wife and kids to think of!"
"Leave it to someone else; you might get hurt, you know!"
"What are you trying to be, some kind of hero?"
"You don't even know those people; why would you care?"
"Leave that to people who get paid to take risks!"

Out in the country where I live, most of the firefighters are volunteers; so are the EMT's on the local Rescue Squad. Ordinary people, who run to what it's easier to run away from. I can promise every one of you this: one day, your life, or that of a friend or loved one, is likely to depend on someone like that, a volunteer, or just a bystander, doing the right thing, even when that's not the safest thing, or the easy thing. You think it doesn't happen? Remember Jon B.'s thread about the man found beaten nearly to death near his place? You know, Jon called 911, and he could have left it at that; the weather was bad, a storm blowing in. Instead, he went to the scene, and helped. With 30 minutes or more before an ambulance could arrive, he did what he could to help...and though he won't admit it, probably saved a life. He could have fallen, in the rough terrain; he got cold, and uncomfortable. He didn't have to do it; wasn't his job at all....but he went, anyway. That sort of decision comes to more people, more often, than you might imagine.

So for the critics, I have a few questions of my own:
If you are being mugged on the street, do you want me to intervene, or should I just call the cops?
If I see someone forcing your wife or daughter into the trunk of a car, do you want me to follow that car, or should I just wait for the cops?
If I find you badly injured in your wrecked car beside the road, do you want me to give you first aid, or would you rather wait for the police and an ambulance?
If the car is on fire, should I pull you out, or would you rather I let you burn?
If you fall through the ice, do you want me to try to pull you out, or would you rather wait for the pros and the equipment?
If I see your house is on fire at 2am, do you want me to get you out before the smoke gets you, or should I wait for the fire truck to arrive first?
If a tornado or other disaster leaves you buried in a pile of rubble, do you want me to try to find you and get you out, or should I wait until the authorities arrive, or it collapses on you, whichever comes first?

It looks a little different from that perspective, doesn't it? Yet, in every one of those situations, it's easier, and safer, for me to just make a phone call, or just stand there with my hands in my pockets, and look the other way. Don't worry; if I'm around, and I think I can help, I will try. We can argue over whether you approve of my attitude later.

 

[Bad Bee]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

patentlaw,there are 2 drives before the light that he past which would be illegal.Its not allowed to enter turn for the light that early not only that but when I dodged him he went into oncoming lanes behind me.

 

[the_postman]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

I'm with those that say Mark was in the right and with Mark himself who knows better than all of us what was going on. Read his posts, the guy ADMITTED to trying to hit him head on. I guess I can only speak for myself but I do get an adrenaline charge when someone almost hits me and yes I get pissed (OMG, is that okay, are we still allowed to get angry in this freakin country??). I would have had the same reaction as Mark, only I'd have been jonesing for the guy to get out of the car and get in my face. You all are so worried that everyones got a gun. What if he didn't? What if he'd got out of the truck and Mark had flat out kicked his ass? Sounds like it'd be a lesson learned to me.

 

[WILDASP]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

When situations as this arise its ALWAYS considered "ROAD RAGE" and for its stupidity it causes allot of problems on the road and from what I have witnessed it tends to snowball...The more of it that occurs, the more people see, the more people think its alright to do and here we go further bettering social life in America.

Do you drive allot and is there anyone else on the roads where you drive?

I sure do, and when I see a possibly impaired driver, or one driving recklessly, I have been known to both call the police, and follow at a safe speed and distance until they showed up. You know why? Because I had years of experience cutting the carnage people like that cause out of wrecks, and I want them caught, before they do it one more time, that's why! Incidentally and by the way, just who made you the resident expert on what constitutes "road rage", and how best to handle it? I personally do not care how uninvolved YOU choose to be; that is entirely YOUR decision; however, I do hope you will excuse others for taking a different path. And no, I really don't care about how you do it in the big city!

 

[Bad Bee]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

Police said he did not approve of the car but not giving that as a answer of why he did what he did.

 

[Bad Bee]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

By the way postman I would have loved to get out and kick his *ss more than the cops taking him to jail but jail serves everybody else better.thank god there really are normal people I was starting to wonder

 

[dipapa]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

I never accused anyones actions or anything said here to be wrong.

There are "SAFE" ways to handle these road cases and thats where im trying to take this thread. I'd really like to hear that from a professionally trained pursuit officer on how he would handle this as a benchmark to us all. Im obviously against instigating the "bad road scene" further however some people here think those people that dont get involved are weak which is completely idiotic because those people are just playing the odds that there involvemnt will make things "ok".

Whats I think is critical in a extremely fast and dangerous road situation occuring is the "next step", not what the is gonna do down at a future time on the road cause we really dont have control of a whole lot in these situations. The cops are the only one who can stop the guy anyway, so buy time safely, follow strategically until they get there, and be careful.

The cops showed up real fast in this case. That was good but that rarely occurs.

 

[dipapa]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

Everyone on this forum hear that! So what do you think about that?

I'snt assault illegal???

So just like the truck guy wanted to ram "Bad" and didnt, "bad" wanted to kick his ass but didnt either.

Ha Ha Ha!!!

You gotta love the subject of ROAD RAGE

Hey BAD, if the cops didn't come that fast, im dying to know would you have got out of the car to Kick his ass?

By the way postman I would have loved to get out and kick his *ss more than the cops taking him to jail but jail serves everybody else better.thank god there really are normal people I was starting to wonder

 

[LifeIsGood]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

...some people here think those people that dont get involved are weak which is completely idiotic because those people are just playing the odds that there involvemnt will make things "ok".

I'm the one the made the accusations about earlier posters being wimps or pansies or whatever deragatory term I felt at the time. My posts were made in reference to the whiners that didn't feel Mark did the right thing. I don't think Mark did anything wrong...and so do many others here. Therefore when someone suggests that they wouldn't get involved and pointed out how they thought Mark was reckless/dangerous/a vigilante...that's what gets me upset. They need to stop making excuses...they wouldn't get involved because they don't want to get involved...there's no need to make up stuff that didn't happen to make them feel better about being apathetic. Don't hate on Mark for doing the right thing.

 

[Bad Bee]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

Just because someone does not react the way I did does not make them "weak" but just because I reacted does not mean it was any sort of road rage that why I did not kick his *ss, if I did have road rage at the light he would of had me on him like a spider monkey

 

[Bad Bee]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

Well said Ken

 

[dipapa]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

I dont think anybody hates Mark, im just teasing him for a few things he said that would be funny in court becasue i think if he said those things, like his heart feels, it would not sound to good in his defense.

Why do you think people that dont agree with Mark "hate him" and are "whiners"?

I gotta have some fun here also.

 

[Venomiss]

Re: Viper drive that starts with Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter and ends with Polic

Bad Bee drives a yellow viper. He is much faster on his feet making good decisions.

Will call you tomorrow Mr. Bad.