VIPER Friendly Tracks in Cali?

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

So with all this concern over long sweeping lefts? I believe, I want to find out what tracks in North Cal are NOT problematic and are perfectly ok for our cars stock oil system in a gen 3 ?

Please let me know!!

thanks!

Jon

 

[Viper X]

None,

Long, high speed sweepers to the right or to the left can leave you walking if you're driving an SRT-10.

Get the 2008 swing arm oil pick up and pan from Daniel at Viper Specialties.

Costs about a grand, solves the oiling problem, easy install.

Dan

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Its only the lefts, from my understanding, its not both. Someone who has expert knowledge in this please respond. (this includes Dan.. although I have trouble calling him an expert ;-) )

 

[MikeR]

Trackmap

Would you consider turn two a long sweeping left.
I have raced this track, but in my streetbike days, it was a 80 mph or so turn if memory servce correct, lasting a 3 or so seconds.

 

[REDSLED]

ThunderHill (Nor Cal)
Laguna Seca (Nor Cal)
Infineon (Nor Cal)
Reno Fernley (Nor Cal)
Buttonwillow (Cen Cal)
Willow Springs (So Cal)
Streets of Willows (So Cal)
Cal Speedway (So Cal)

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

ThunderHill (Nor Cal)
Laguna Seca (Nor Cal)
Infineon (Nor Cal)
Reno Fernley (Nor Cal)
Buttonwillow (Cen Cal)
Willow Springs (So Cal)
Streets of Willows (So Cal)
Cal Speedway (So Cal)

Sweet! Thanks for the list.... now.. do any of these run the risk of toasting our motors, due to the oil pickup issue on the stock gen 3s?

 

[j-rho]

The bowl at Cal Speedway has been known to eat motors; the infield course is fine though.

 

[MikeR]

Jon is set up with Accusump and Comp coupe oil pan. I dont have either of those.
I told him I was worred about doing anymore track days once I heard about the oil starvation problem.
I would probably be doing Buttonwillow and Thunderhill. I know our club hosts a event the friday before Viper days at buttonwllow and I havent heard any horror stories yet.

Also at VOI9 I ran the Oval track, long left hand sweepers at 100 mph and then into the infield, never had a issue, but I still dont wan to take any chances. I was thinking if I did do a trackday , Id, just really be careful thru the long sweeper at Thunderhill. Buttonwillow doesnt have any long left sweepers if they run clockwise like they usually did when I raced bikes there.

So whats the verdict, will I be ok without a comp coupe oil pan ??

 

[Viper Specialty]

Hey Jon,

The stock oiling system in the Gen-3 is deficient all around IMHO. The problems are both upsteam and downstream of the pump. Basically, the system is set up so that if you have a pickup failure, the pump and pressure relief valve design allows pressure spiking as well as recirculation [through the pressure relief valve] of the aireated mixture back into the pump inlet where it again will interfere with proper oil flow. It takes far longer to expel this air from the system that it should, and over time this will lead to the breakdown of the engine in an exponential decay fashion.

However, the problems highlighted above only occur *IF* the pickup runs dry or is obstructed enough to create a vacuum significant enough to obscure oil flow. It is a problem based on a problem. If you can adequately solve the issue upstream at the pickup, you will be protected in all but the most extreme circumstances.

No matter how you slice it, the stock pickup is bad design, and it will never have the capability, in either direction, that a swing-arm style pickup would have. The new oil pan is also baffled much better for braking forces, which are the next in line of problems with the OE pan, and very easily exceeded in hard driving.

I know you have an accusump, and this does help, however solving the issue upstream is always the better solution. Regardless of the fact that you may not lose system pressure, with the pickup issues, you will still be forcing air through the system. And as you probably guessed- engine bearings dont slide too well on 0W-0 lubrication...lol

Re: Comp Coupe Oil Pan. IMHO, this system does little to protect you. Better than stock, sure... but by solving one issue, it created two others. CC oil Pans are more likely to starve on right handers and accelleration than anything else, and are still limited by the OE baffle system, and are also not protected from slosh-out.

 

[MikeR]

Hey Jon,

The stock oiling system in the Gen-3 is deficient all around IMHO. The problems are both upsteam and downstream of the pump. Basically, the system is set up so that if you have a pickup failure, the pump and pressure relief valve design allows pressure spiking as well as recirculation [through the pressure relief valve] of the aireated mixture back into the pump inlet where it again will interfere with proper oil flow. It takes far longer to expel this air from the system that it should, and over time this will lead to the breakdown of the engine in an exponential decay fashion.

However, the problems highlighted above only occur *IF* the pickup runs dry or is obstructed enough to create a vacuum significant enough to obscure oil flow. It is a problem based on a problem. If you can adequately solve the issue upstream at the pickup, you will be protected in all but the most extreme circumstances.

No matter how you slice it, the stock pickup is bad design, and it will never have the capability, in either direction, that a swing-arm style pickup would have. The new oil pan is also baffled much better for braking forces, which are the next in line of problems with the OE pan, and very easily exceeded in hard driving.

I know you have an accusump, and this does help, however solving the issue upstream is always the better solution. Regardless of the fact that you may not lose system pressure, with the pickup issues, you will still be forcing air through the system. And as you probably guessed- engine bearings dont slide too well on 0W-0 lubrication...lol

So Dan,
Your race style swing arm Oil pan will solve this problem 100% ? Price is not bad compared to Comp Coupe oil pan.

 

[Viper Specialty]

So Dan,
Your race style swing arm Oil pan will solve this problem 100% ? Price is not bad compared to Comp Coupe oil pan.

Yes, it solves all of the pick-up related issues. It as good as you can get in a wet-sump configuration. I have a ton of them out there, and there have been ZERO oil pressure issues or lost engines due to oil pressure. In fact the only issue to date was a simple install mistake that caused the pick-up to bind [that was later corrected by just loosening the bolts and re-torquing in a new order]

The "full" oiling system I offer is of course better than the pan/pickup alone, as it fixes both the upsteam and the downstream issues, and offers a larger oil pump... but the price difference reflects this, and it also will not work [yet] with the Paxton SC's. I recommend this option for Big-Power TT cars and built road course cars that see a LOT of track time on very sticky rubber or with large aero improvements.

 

[MikeR]

Yes, it solves all of the pick-up related issues. It as good as you can get in a wet-sump configuration. I have a ton of them out there, and there have been ZERO oil pressure issues or lost engines due to oil pressure. In fact the only issue to date was a simple install mistake that caused the pick-up to bind [that was later corrected by just loosening the bolts and re-torquing in a new order]

The "full" oiling system I offer is of course better than the pan/pickup alone, as it fixes both the upsteam and the downstream issues, and offers a larger oil pump... but the price difference reflects this, and it also will not work [yet] with the Paxton SC's. I recommend this option for Big-Power TT cars and built road course cars that see a LOT of track time on very sticky rubber or with large aero improvements.

So then your saying the Comp Coupe oil pan is my best choice at this time for a Paxton SRT?
Thanks

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

YOU SOB....

I just wanted to know if the problem is with left hand sweepers, or right hand sweepers.. not you pimping your product.

I will forgive you if you answer that simple question. And don't give me that crap that it doesnt work at both, because thats a lie...

IF no one will answer this correctly, I'll go ****** the search feature and find out the real answer.

Thanks!

Jon

 

[Viper Specialty]

So then your saying the Comp Coupe oil pan is my best choice at this time for a Paxton SRT?
Thanks

Not at all. I probably should have specified that we offer TWO solutions, and I was referencing each of them separately. Check my website, they are both on it with info about each so you can see what I mean. Both of them are better than the CC pan, however the "full" system will not yet work with Paxton SC's. The regular swing-arm pan/pickup upgrade *WILL* work with Paxton SC's right now, its only the complete system that wont due to timing cover differences.

 

[Viper Specialty]

YOU SOB....

I just wanted to know if the problem is with left hand sweepers, or right hand sweepers.. not you pimping your product.

I will forgive you if you answer that simple question. And don't give me that crap that it doesnt work at both, because thats a lie...

IF no one will answer this correctly, I'll go ****** the search feature and find out the real answer.

Thanks!

Jon

Uh, read much Jon?

This post went the way of common sense (ie: fixing the problem) by post number 2, and you seem to the the only one here not talking about the oiling systems and the simple fixes for the issue, rather than trying to figure out which direction you can turn without creating engine confetti.


The problem is with BOTH directions ultimately, though it appears much sooner in LH sweepers than RH. Ultimately, I wouldnt trust the OEM oil system on any track, ever, knowing what I know about it.

To Quote;

"The stock oiling system in the Gen-3 is deficient all around IMHO."

"No matter how you slice it, the stock pickup is bad design, and it will never have the capability, in either direction."

"The new oil pan is also baffled much better for braking forces, which are the next in line of problems with the OE pan, and very easily exceeded in hard driving."

"I know you have an accusump, and this does help, however solving the issue upstream is always the better solution. Regardless of the fact that you may not lose system pressure, with the pickup issues, you will still be forcing air through the system."

"Re: Comp Coupe Oil Pan. IMHO, this system does little to protect you. Better than stock, sure... but by solving one issue, it created two others. CC oil Pans are more likely to starve on right handers and accelleration than anything else, and are still limited by the OE baffle system, and are also not protected from slosh-out."


For Jon:

Which way did he go George, which way did he go?

Durrrr.... Left Hand.... Durrrr

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

blah.. blah.. blah... though it appears much sooner in LH sweepers than RH. blah.. blah.. blah

Thats what I wanted to know.. and its my thread, and I CERTAINLY have every right to keep it on track. My question wasnt about upgrades, it was about whats safe for stock set ups. You start your own damn thread where you **** your products, and I'll start one (this one) where I try to figure out where my friend and I can enjoy a track day together without him having to dump 1,000-3,000 in upgrades, just to participate.

How about you try reading you F **** !

You're Friend (seriously),

Jon

 

[MikeR]

gettin good in here.

 

[Viper Specialty]

You start your own damn thread where you **** your products.

I do, all the time. I figure every time I post, its a new thread anyway.

I'll start one (this one) where I try to figure out where my friend and I can enjoy a day together without him having to dump 1,000-3,000 in upgrades, just to participate.

But you dump that kind of money to participate with "friends" all the time? Whats the difference? Do you feel left out? Tell them not to worry, its no big deal that your pickup hangs too far off to the left to be useful.

No pun intended.

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

I do, all the time. I figure every time I post, its a new thread anyway.




But you dump that kind of money to participate with "friends" all the time? Whats the difference? Do you feel left out? Tell them not to worry, its no big deal that your pickup hangs too far off to the left to be useful.

No pun intended.

lol. Somehow I have a feeling your not talking about my Viper anymore... although I have called 'it' that before.. so maybe you are . I guess the more I think about it, I do pay friends, check your customer statements, you'll see a nice bit of money from me . For that accusump system amongst them.

Now, keep your hands off my pick-up.. certainly not meant for the non track worthy. (Have you ever even tracked your viper ? just curiuos..)

Jon

 

[wastntim]

What kind of pickup do you need to do this?

Video of Jon A\'s Auto X expertise - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

oh, how cute.. you miss me ....

Sorry your car didnt have enough power at the end of the run to break out the rear after clearing the last cones.... my did furtunately enough.. and I showed it off...

hows that 400 rwhp treating ya ?

 

[wastntim]

oh, how cute.. you miss me ....

Sorry your car didnt have enough power at the end of the run to break out the rear after clearing the last cones.... my did furtunately enough.. and I showed it off...

hows that 400 rwhp treating ya ?

Well I will miss laughing at you as you careen out of control through the cones like king kong in a china factory, I'll give you that.

As I seem to remember, my measly 400hp almost beat your 650rwhp at gingerman.

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Can you please show us your "almost beat you trophy" ??

Or do I actually have it...... I believe its called my review mirror.

Thanks for playing.. you lost.

 

[Viper X]

"Its only the lefts, from my understanding, its not both. Someone who has expert knowledge in this please respond. (this includes Dan.. although I have trouble calling him an expert ;-) )"

Jon,

Never claimed to be an expert. Do own three Vipers and have put about 75,000 miles on them collectively. One is a 01 GTS ACR at 510 rwhp, one is a 06 SRTC at 465 rwhp and the other is a 04 SRT-10 at 925 rwhp. I've dragged them, run the Silver State and the 1/2 mile drags (which I won two years in a row) and tracked them locally for the last 3 years. I'm not awesome on a road course yet.....but I am pretty good for an old guy.

Don't know why you'd make that statement of someone that you don't know when they're just trying to be helpful, but if you'd like to meet at Buttonwillow or Willow Springs (I'll be there running with NASA on May 24 & 25), a demonstration can be arranged. Bring your supercharged car or whatever Viper you own and I'll smoke you with my NA GTS and less HP/TQ.

SRT-10's do have oiling issues with both lefts and rights as I (and then later) Daniel stated. An Accusump will help. A CC oil pan and pump will help. Both together are better than either one alone, especially if you are running slicks and can drive.

If you'd like to go to the drags, that can be arranged too. I'll run my SRT-10 against yours in the 1/4, 1/2 or mile. We can start from a stop or roll on from whatever speed you'd like. Although I just read in another thread that you got spanked by MikeR and Illsmoqu, so you should be very easy for me.

I've seen SRT-10's blow up at almost every Viper Days Event that I've been to since 2005. Tracks include Willow Springs, Buttonwillow and Spring Mountain. Turns were both left and right but I don't remember seeing you there.....

Dan

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

"Its only the lefts, from my understanding, its not both. Someone who has expert knowledge in this please respond. (this includes Dan.. although I have trouble calling him an expert ;-) )"

Jon,

Never claimed to be an expert. Do own three Vipers and have put about 75,000 miles on them collectively. One is a 01 GTS ACR at 510 rwhp, one is a 06 SRTC at 465 rwhp and the other is a 04 SRT-10 at 925 rwhp. I've dragged them, run the Silver State and the 1/2 mile drags (which I won two years in a row) and tracked them locally for the last 3 years. I'm not awesome on a road course yet.....but I am pretty good for an old guy.

Don't know why you'd make that statement of someone that you don't know when they're just trying to be helpful, but if you'd like to meet at Buttonwillow or Willow Springs (I'll be there running with NASA on May 24 & 25), a demonstration can be arranged. Bring your supercharged car or whatever Viper you own and I'll smoke you with my NA GTS and less HP/TQ.

SRT-10's do have oiling issues with both lefts and rights as I (and then later) Daniel stated. An Accusump will help. A CC oil pan and pump will help. Both together are better than either one alone, especially if you are running slicks and can drive.

If you'd like to go to the drags, that can be arranged too. I'll run my SRT-10 against yours in the 1/4, 1/2 or mile. We can start from a stop or roll on from whatever speed you'd like. Although I just read in another thread that you got spanked by MikeR and Illsmoqu, so you should be very easy for me.

I've seen SRT-10's blow up at almost every Viper Days Event that I've been to since 2005. Tracks include Willow Springs, Buttonwillow and Spring Mountain. Turns were both left and right but I don't remember seeing you there.....

Dan

HOLY SHEET DUDE.. Chill out, I am talking about Dan Lesser.. the guy I PM'd to have him join this discussion (and he did). You are NOT the Dan I was talking about.. wow... you think I had a clue you'd thing I was talking about you? I dont even know you. I KNEW the other Dan was coming, because I PM'ed him to join the thread...Breath.. you're going to be ok.. wow...

"Dan Lesser, Owner
www.ViperSpecialty.com
(716) 912-5336
WNY Tech / VCA Activities " His Very signature.

I'll respond with answers to your qestions in my next post because I need you to relax first, and it might take me a minute to respond to your questions... Seek help...

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Do own three Vipers and have put about 75,000 miles on them collectively.
MORE THEN THAT.. Dont be stupid, know who you are talking to, I had 60,000 miles alone on my 1st ACR, then for xmas 2 years ago I bought my Dad one for christmas (which I have easily driven for another 10k miles when visting NC) (have you ever given a brand new one away as a gift, since your trying to be a big swinging Dick... all big and mighty?? you Big baller...I have and the video is on this site), next my 06 coupe I already have 20k miles on it, so I blow yoru paultry 75k out of the water. GET REAL.. please.. all 3 bought new.. thanks for asking.


One is a 01 GTS ACR at 510 rwhp,
My ACR Dyno'd more then that after my heads and came, so thanks for playing.. you lost.

one is a 06 SRTC at 465 rwhp
My 06 coupe last dyno'd rear wheel 640... again you lost

and the other is a 04 SRT-10 at 925 rwhp.
You beat me here, good for you, you got me 1 outta 3..

I've dragged them, run the Silver State and the 1/2 mile drags (which I won two years in a row) and tracked them locally for the last 3 years.
there were no silver state clasics close to me in NC or Chicago during my tenure in those places or I would have been happy to have tried them. I have however Tracked, VIR, Putnam Park, Autobahn country club, Mid Ohio and fully plan on tracking the good ones here in Cali. (AND I CAN BE FOUND ON VRL'S POINT LIST FOR A # OF YEARS.. CAN YOU?)

I'm not awesome on a road course yet.....but I am pretty good for an old guy.
I'm pretty good for a young guy.

Don't know why you'd make that statement of someone that you don't know when they're just trying to be helpful,
I know Dan EXTREMELY well.. and know his vast knowledge and fully made that statement as such.

but if you'd like to meet at Buttonwillow or Willow Springs (I'll be there running with NASA on May 24 & 25), a demonstration can be arranged. Bring your supercharged car or whatever Viper you own and I'll smoke you with my NA GTS and less HP/TQ.
If its in the cards, I am more then happy to meet you there, but not becasue I am some Azzhole who likes to act like a big swinging Dick.. but because I actually enjoy tracking my car and meeting people who also like to do as such... (Make note MikeR, we have an agenda item to attend to in our quest for track time)

SRT-10's do have oiling issues with both lefts and rights as I (and then later) Daniel stated.
Funny you recognize there is a different Dan besides yourself.

An Accusump will help. A CC oil pan and pump will help. Both together are better than either one alone, especially if you are running slicks and can drive.
completely agree.

If you'd like to go to the drags, that can be arranged too. I'll run my SRT-10 against yours in the 1/4, 1/2 or mile. We can start from a stop or roll on from whatever speed you'd like. Although I just read in another thread that you got spanked by MikeR and Illsmoqu, so you should be very easy for me.
I run 10s.. if you beat me, then cool.. they beat me from a roll on, but NEITHER has beaten my 1/4 mile times. If you have, big deal.. I'll still run ya... I hope your not using your car as some ruler for what kinda of man you are, because this is getting pathetic.



I've seen SRT-10's blow up at almost every Viper Days Event that I've been to since 2005.
Been going to them since 2002, before there were SRTs.

Tracks include Willow Springs, Buttonwillow and Spring Mountain. Turns were both left and right but I don't remember seeing you there.....
hard to see me at tracks that are on the OTHER side of the continent, when I was based out of North Carolina BACK THEN... BUT I AM HERE NOW... !! ENJOY ME !!

Dan
JON

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Its only the lefts, from my understanding, its not both. Someone who has expert knowledge in this please respond. (this includes Dan.. although I have trouble calling him an expert ;-) )

Why would I ask you to RESPOND again, if you had already responded?

'someone who has expert knowlege in this please response. (this includes Dan..'

I am asking Dan lesser to also respond to this, because even though I'm busting his chops, I consider him to be a knowledge expert.

You think I am asking for you to ONCE AGAIN give your opinion, after you already gave it? Wouldnt I have said EXCLUDES Dan (you) if I was trying to say I didnt think you had expert knowlege???)

I'm done explaining this....

 

[Stealth]

Skirmishes aside, have the "oiling issues" been resolved for 2008?

If not, then I guess Dodge better get ready to take back a lot of grenaded motors from SRT-10s running street car class HPDEs on street tires--basically what the car was designed for!

I just came from a C6Z that had dry sump oiling and ran great. I hope I am not in for problems with the 2008 Viper

 

[Viper Specialty]

Oiling issues are indeed resolved for 2008.

 

[CCBrian]

I tracked my 06 Coupe for 5500 miles-yes track miles and never had a problem with the car. I always checked the oil and ran 1/2 quart extra for track days.I never saw an oil pressure drop-I do look at the gauges. I ran the car dead stock except for an alignment. And yes I can drive-I race a CC in National SCCA and VRL currently. When I sold it there was 9000 mile on it and it still ran perfect. The few issues I have seen are guys who show up at the track and are 1-2 quarts low. You would be surprised at the lack of prep some people do before they go out for a track day, and then wonder why the car broke.Brian