Viper production slowed by one third due to sluggish sales

[Bobpantax]

I do not think the racing comes out of the same Budget. Do you know for sure?

They have spent their entire budget sponsoring races. They have the cash.

But, they haven't been leveraging that sponsorship. Why aren't there Gen V Vipers at each of the races prospective buyers can rag on? That to me has been the complete failure. SRT is there, they are doing a dog and pony show, why aren't they getting asses in seats?

 

[Stealth]

With all due respect, lack of Gen V sales has little or nothing to do with advertising and marketing (other than giving half-baked, ill-prepped cars/the wrong cars to the press). The proof is provided by repeat tests with similar results. The TA results are a marginal increase at best--basically a dead heat with the outgoing ZR1.

Serious purchaser prospects for this type of car will ignore the blah, blah and focus on the looks, specifations, performance, driving feel, ergonomics, etc.

More likely, the lack of Gen V sales is due to:

1. Lack of changes in the new car.

2. Retro styling. Some pavement-ripping, hide-the-children design is required--something like the Volado concept.

3. Lack of 700hp.

4. Sluggesh economy.

5. Price. No loaded version of the car--including the ACR--should exceed $120k. $90k for a well-equipped car is really the sweet spot.

I just hope that Dodge/SRT can retool the Gen V and take care of those nice enough to have already purchased a Gen V (retro-fits? buybacks? future purchase credits?). Otherwise those of us looking for more are left either moving to another vehicle or waiting years for a Gen VI in an uncertain automotive future. Glad the snake lives but also hoping for a brighter future!

 

[ViperSmith]

The more I think it, I don't think "the economy" may be an overblown reason. There are a lot of 100k+ cars out there (What 911 can you find under $100k option with anything in it) selling just fine.

As others have said, people don't know the Viper is back, it is a complete marketing mistake.

 

[ACRucrazy]

The more I think it, I don't think "the economy" may be an overblown reason. There are a lot of 100k+ cars out there (What 911 can you find under $100k option with anything in it) selling just fine.

As others have said, people don't know the Viper is back, it is a complete marketing mistake.

Disagree.

Viper Production

2006 1869
2007 zero
2008 1579
2009 659
2010 509
2011 zero
2012 zero
2013 809

Corvette Production

2006 34,021
2007 40,561
2008 35,310
2009 16,956
2010 12,194
2011 13,596
2012 11,647
2013 13,466

Mustang Production

2006 166,530
2007 134,626
2008 91,251
2009 66,623
2010 73,716
2011 70,438
2012 82,995


911 Production

2006 12702
2007 13153
2008 8324
2009 6839
2010 5735
2011 6016
2012 8528

Lamborghini Sales

2006 2087
2007 2406
2008 2430
2009 1515
2010 1302
2011 1602
2012 2083


If there is any error in these numbers, don't shoot the messenger. These are numbers I found online. If any of them are untrue feel free to correct
But based on these production numbers and sales numbers, in my opinion right around 2008/2009 These examples show a serious drop in production and sales. Those that can afford Lamborghini's 5 years ago, typically can still afford them in today's economy. However the "working mans" sports cars.. Mustangs, Corvettes, yes even the Viper.... well numbers speak for themselves.

 

[I Bin Therbefor]

I do not think the racing comes out of the same Budget. Do you know for sure?

Several places, several SRT people, including Ralph, have said ALL THE MARKETING BUDGET WAS SPENT ON RACING, specifically the ALM series

 

[ViperSmith]

Disagree.

Viper Production

2006 1869
2007 zero
2008 1579
2009 659
2010 509
2011 zero
2012 zero
2013 809

Corvette Production

2006 34,021
2007 40,561
2008 35,310
2009 16,956
2010 12,194
2011 13,596
2012 11,647
2013 13,466

Mustang Production

2006 166,530
2007 134,626
2008 91,251
2009 66,623
2010 73,716
2011 70,438
2012 82,995


911 Production

2006 12702
2007 13153
2008 8324
2009 6839
2010 5735
2011 6016
2012 8528

Lamborghini Sales

2006 2087
2007 2406
2008 2430
2009 1515
2010 1302
2011 1602
2012 2083


If there is any error in these numbers, don't shoot the messenger. These are numbers I found online. If any of them are untrue feel free to correct
But based on these production numbers and sales numbers, in my opinion right around 2008/2009 These examples show a serious drop in production and sales. Those that can afford Lamborghini's 5 years ago, typically can still afford them in today's economy. However the "working mans" sports cars.. Mustangs, Corvettes, yes even the Viper.... well numbers speak for themselves.

I don't think the economy is great, but it isn't hurting moving cars in the $100k range. While sales are down for mostly everyone, Dodge should be able to sell more than it is.

 

[ViperSmith]

I found this post on Ferrarichat interesting

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/142652980-post125.html

Interesting about that. I had an order for a 458 with a Dealer whose Manager I have dealt with and is a real gentleman, but I was about six months out on the car, I went to my local dealer in my 430 on a Sunday, I saw a used Black 458 with Racing Seats, I thought what the hell, this might be perfect until the other new car gets in. The Dealer was too busy to unlock the 458 for me to see how the Racing Seats felt regarding a comfort level, I was certain that these guys were order takers and not Sales People. I went to McLaren afterwards that day with no intention whatsoever of buying a 12C. Since the interaction was night and day and they actually gave me the car overnight. I was sold. I loved the acceleration, the carbon tub, the seating position, and the fact that they treated me like a Customer.

A few weeks I was with my family in Beverly Hills for the weekend and walked down from the Hotel a couple of blocks with my Daughter to the Ferrari Dealer, unfortunately the Manager who I consider a friend was busy, but some New D-Bag Salesman was extremely arrogant and rude while we were there. Now just to clarify, my daughter is one of the quietest and most polite kids, who would never open the door on a car, make noise, or be out of control, said "Daddy why is that Man so Mean." I actually went to look a Red 458 Coupe they had for sale.

Just for the sake of it, we walked down to McLaren Beverly Hills and once again, just as Newport McLaren, the Manager treated us warmly, no sales pressure, even offered us a beverage.

Sorry to get this off track regarding the 12C vs. 458. As I have said many times, I consider both cars extremely capable and wonderful in their own ways.

McLaren is in the process of building a consumer brand. They are hitting the right cylinders here.

Take note, SRT.

 

[ACRucrazy]

I don't think the economy is great, but it isn't hurting moving cars in the $100k range. While sales are down for mostly everyone, Dodge should be able to sell more than it is.

Dodge/SRT is selling 100k cars. They are just selling fewer Vipers than they were in 2006, 2007 and have been doing so since 2008 like everybody else. That's what you need to look at. Everyone is down. Corvette has not produced this few vehicles since 1962!

 

[Ev1E9]

I found this post on Ferrarichat interesting

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/142652980-post125.html



McLaren is in the process of building a consumer brand. They are hitting the right cylinders here.

Take note, SRT.

Ironically, Mclaren has had their share of launch issues (i.e. IRIS, radio, door latches etc.). However, they have done a great job in terms of responding to those issues. Mclaren even provided performance upgrades free of charge to customers who purchased early 12Cs.

 

[ferraritoviper]

The one thing SRT didn't do is run a multi-pronged ad campaign. There are plenty of magazines, websites and shows that have wealthy audiences. I'd look at running ads in places rich people go and if I were SRT I would open an SRT-only dealerships somewhere prominent just to showcase vehicles and stir interest.

What about mototrend and other car-centric mags? The viper got some attention there - but guess what, most of the people reading those mags are dreamers who like to look at cars they have no intention of buying so they can argue about them on the internet.

SRT nailed it with the Viper itself - it's totally a value at it's MSRP - but even other viper owners I've met were somewhat baffled, "Oh, they made a new one?" is what I hear a lot from other people who talk to me about my car. Even more surprising is that a lot of people don't even know it's a viper...I had one lady say to me, "That's a really hot car...but what's a GTS?"

Hint: "A new kind of buyer" is not a demographic.

SRT needs to do a better job of communicating. They have a bunch of awesome TV commericals for the Viper but I have yet to see any of them on TV.

Pro Tip #1:
PUT YOUR VIPER TV COMMERCIALS ON TV!!!

Pro Tip #2:
Buy billboards on major highways.

Pro Tip #3:
Run internet ad campaigns that include banner, email, contextual and advertorials.

Pro Tip #4:
Stir up some controversy by ******* off the right people...have miley cyrus lick a Viper while holding a big stuffed snake between her legs. She'd do it and someone would ***** about it.

Pro Tip #4.5:
Stir up some good will...sponsor a fund-raiser raffle type of thing for any number of the charities that exist to help US war veterans, like wounded warriors, and donate a viper or two for the person who wins the raffle. Get someone on Fox News to promote it - any of the evening hosts would probably consider it, and they have a lot of viewers. You could even paint the cars red, white and blue or give them a military-style color scheme.

Pro Tip #5:
Engage in "reputation management", spamming a variety of social websites telling everyone how great the Viper is.

Pro Tip #6:
Advertise on channels that WEALTHY frequent. If SRT can't figure out where that is, look at places that have ads for private jets. With 330,000,000 people in the USA and at least 1% of them earning $1M or more each year that's a pool of over 3M people who could afford the Viper - you only need to convince 0.006% of them why they should buy a Viper instead of (or in addition to) that played out Porshe to hit your 2,000 units sold mark for the year.

Pro Tip #7:
Have a contest that invites independent filmmakers (youtube is full of them) to make short films that focus on the Viper. Let people vote for the best 3 or 5 videos and give them vipers if they win. Meanwhile, enjoy all the free advertising you get while these filmmakers promote their videos on their channels trying to get votes.

I think that's enough free advice. If you want to implement this and your current marketing team is incompetent (they are; just fire them), I'll be happy help.

This is by far and away, the best post to date on Vipers sales problems, or I should say correcting them! I'm sure SRT made a nice profit on the first 800 they built and shipped, but the unsold 13's and backed up inventory of 14's at dealers will not bode well for Gen V future, unless they seriously market/advertise along the lines of Peerblock's comments, who appears to have knowledge (Awesome Viper TV commercials on hand?)....BTW, nice idea Nineball on football season...too bad they missed the big one at Superbowl...just a 5 second quickie on Viper roaring with a catchy phrase, after that long boring Chrysler ad, would have really started the buzz with TV's biggest annual audience

 

[Ian]

This is by far and away, the best post to date on Vipers sales problems, or I should say correcting them! I'm sure SRT made a nice profit on the first 800 they built and shipped, but the unsold 13's and backed up inventory of 14's at dealers will not bode well for Gen V future, unless they seriously market/advertise along the lines of Peerblock's comments, who appears to have knowledge (Awesome Viper TV commercials on hand?)....BTW, nice idea Nineball on football season...too bad they missed the big one at Superbowl...just a 5 second quickie on Viper roaring with a catchy phrase, after that long boring Chrysler ad, would have really started the buzz with TV's biggest annual audience

So I was at Lingenfelter museum today for one of their Charity events. They Had every exotic car you could imagine there with a very wealthy clientele. This is 40 miles from the HQ of SRT.

http://www.thelingenfeltercollection.com/

Some of the vehicles on display were from Bugatti Veyron down, the 3 Aston Martins models all brand new, Every Ferrari exotic you could imagine, FF F40 etc, Porsche;s up the wazzooo, even a prowler. They even had an Alfa Romeo Competizione C8 ? which I did not know was even in the country yet?

Pride of place was a Corvette C7 - But "no hide nor hair" of a Viper ? - Does the marketing dept of SRT know anything that is going on and an opportunity to showcase the vehicle.

I would upload some pictures but I seem to have exceeded my daily limit ?

 

[VRYALT3R3D]

Pride of place was a Corvette C7 - But "no hide nor hair" of a Viper ? - Does the marketing dept of SRT know anything that is going on and an opportunity to showcase the vehicle.

So? Jay Leno doesn't own a single Ferrari in his collection. BTW, Ken Lingenfelter did have a Viper at one point.

 

[Ian]

So? Jay Leno doesn't own a single Ferrari in his collection. BTW, Ken Lingenfelter did have a Viper at one point.

Well he certainly doesn't have it now, and I don't see him getting a Gen V - not to put words in his mouth but probably says -"Nah been there done that"

Some cars that were there were othe local cars and manufacturers like Falcon....big ugly and crude, but hey a persons dream I guss......http://www.falconf7.com/

 

[TacDoc]

With all due respect, lack of Gen V sales has little or nothing to do with advertising and marketing (other than giving half-baked, ill-prepped cars/the wrong cars to the press). The proof is provided by repeat tests with similar results. The TA results are a marginal increase at best--basically a dead heat with the outgoing ZR1.

Serious purchaser prospects for this type of car will ignore the blah, blah and focus on the looks, specifations, performance, driving feel, ergonomics, etc.

More likely, the lack of Gen V sales is due to:

1. Lack of changes in the new car.

2. Retro styling. Some pavement-ripping, hide-the-children design is required--something like the Volado concept.

3. Lack of 700hp.

4. Sluggesh economy.

5. Price. No loaded version of the car--including the ACR--should exceed $120k. $90k for a well-equipped car is really the sweet spot.

I just hope that Dodge/SRT can retool the Gen V and take care of those nice enough to have already purchased a Gen V (retro-fits? buybacks? future purchase credits?). Otherwise those of us looking for more are left either moving to another vehicle or waiting years for a Gen VI in an uncertain automotive future. Glad the snake lives but also hoping for a brighter future!

Volado design would have been a sure buy for me..

 

[BlueLIGHTNING]

The more I think it, I don't think "the economy" may be an overblown reason. There are a lot of 100k+ cars out there (What 911 can you find under $100k option with anything in it) selling just fine.

As others have said, people don't know the Viper is back, it is a complete marketing mistake.

I keep hearing this excuse people don't know the Viper is back and not buying it. Come on there should be enough buyers in the few Viper forums alone to easily buy 800 cars made this year. The fact you can't even get Viper owners to upgrade is not good, maybe its because its just an update '96 Viper. Maybe if they had built 10,000 cars I could understand that logic but 800 cars world wide should be swallowed up without any sitting in a dealership.

 

[ACRucrazy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFbEj987Ydg

 

[ViperSmith]

I keep hearing this excuse people don't know the Viper is back and not buying it. Come on there should be enough buyers in the few Viper forums alone to easily buy 800 cars made this year. The fact you can't even get Viper owners to upgrade is not good, maybe its because its just an update '96 Viper. Maybe if they had built 10,000 cars I could understand that logic but 800 cars world wide should be swallowed up without any sitting in a dealership.

An upgrades Gen II? You guys are reaching.

 

[ferraritoviper]

Just saw my first Viper advertisment!!!! It was in Exotic Car 2014 Buyers Guide by duPont Registry...125 reviews. They gave the TA a positive review, and the full page next to it was a Stryker Red Viper with SRT boldly in red under it, followed by only 9 dealers, Woodhouse/Tomball not included...left me wondering.

 

[SylvanSRT]

not interested till the top goes down! Oh and by the way the gen V is the first time ever the viper debuted a new model as a hardtop before the roadster/conv. i am sure to get the car onto the track sooner but plenty of people like their cars *******. and till the price settles or for that matter is discounted. i also firmly believe that you should never pay over sticker for a car that is still in production.................they are going to make more, i dont need to be the first on the block to own one

 

[mnc2886]

Just saw my first Viper advertisment!!!! It was in Exotic Car 2014 Buyers Guide by duPont Registry...125 reviews. They gave the TA a positive review, and the full page next to it was a Stryker Red Viper with SRT boldly in red under it, followed by only 9 dealers, Woodhouse/Tomball not included...left me wondering.

Unfortunately that has been the story for the Gen V. Everything is being taken 90% of the way there. No follow through and poorly thought out. SRT has a huge image problem and they don't care. How can you expect to compete with Porsche and not even have a build your own feature on your website?

 

[SylvanSRT]

not just the story for the gen V the viper has always been under (UN )utilized as a "halo" car!!

 

[ACRucrazy]

Unfortunately that has been the story for the Gen V. Everything is being taken 90% of the way there. No follow through and poorly thought out. SRT has a huge image problem and they don't care. How can you expect to compete with Porsche and not even have a build your own feature on your website?

Agreed. The website is horrible and has been for over a year. Pathetic really.

 

[swexlin]

I found this post on Ferrarichat interesting

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/142652980-post125.html



McLaren is in the process of building a consumer brand. They are hitting the right cylinders here.

Take note, SRT.

I agree. The local McLaren dealer brings a car to our C&C every weekend. The local Dodge dealer with a Launch Edition on his floor for months now, does not.

 

[Bobpantax]

Ian. I just realized who you may be based on all of the Viper related events that you say that you have attended and will be attending. Are you Ian Sharp who recently wrote the guest editorial for Allpar? If so, do you have any additional thoughts on the Gen V since you wrote the article that you would like to share?

 

[Smog Dog]

Ian. I just realized who you may be based on all of the Viper related events that you say that you have attended and will be attending. Are you Ian Sharp who recently wrote the guest editorial for Allpar? If so, do you have any additional thoughts on the Gen V since you wrote the article that you would like to share?

Been so busy defending the old Viper club you missed the whole thread? http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/668987-Beyond-The-2014-Viper

 

[Ian]

Ian. I just realized who you may be based on all of the Viper related events that you say that you have attended and will be attending. Are you Ian Sharp who recently wrote the guest editorial for Allpar? If so, do you have any additional thoughts on the Gen V since you wrote the article that you would like to share?

It might be and I do....and have presented to RVG and SRT twice in 2010 about what a new Viper should be, both times rebuffed. Including how to fund it.

Google - "Chrysler Hybrid race Car" amongst others.....and RaceTech magazine "The Chrysler Patriot"....I wrote a front page article for this years Le Mans edition.

http://www.racetechmag.com/

Or if anyone wants to send me an email via private message I can share some information.

 

[VRYALT3R3D]

Ian -- It is interesting technology that is for sure. However I personally would not want to see it in the Viper. I enjoy having a 640HP, N/A, RWD, manual exotic too much.

It sounds like belongs in something more like the Chrysler ME Four-Twelve

 

[Ian]

Ian -- It is interesting technology that is for sure. However I personally would not want to see it in the Viper. I enjoy having a 640HP, N/A, RWD, manual exotic too much.

It sounds like belongs in something more like the Chrysler ME Four-Twelve

I understand your sentiments in a small way. And sentiments is what it is = sentimental = mental - a lust and a hankering of things and times gone by.

But what is it specifically you want? On this board, it is all..... I want this, I want this, I want that, no I want this......lots of opinions but pure schizophrenia....no wonder the SRT boys were confused, and the gen V came out with change everything....but change nothing. It goes back to my saying which Bob Lutz says.....customers don't know what they want until you give it to them.

Don't forget that in my world SRT should be the development division of the organization where they test market and experiment new technologies etc (I mean it doesn't matter if a few of you genteel folks on here get grilled, lost, does it....lol.....the gene pool diversity joke improving the breed....lol)

I think it is great that you enjoy a "I enjoy having a 640HP, N/A, RWD, manual exotic too much" and the 300 or so others who have laid there money down, but that doesn't help the brand survive when they plan for 2,000.....and 2,000 is a good number to make and still keep it exclusive.

This technology is on the way....Toyota is going to be selling to the general public a Fuel Cell car in a few years, which this technology was an interim step towards and kids in 50 years time will be tuning Fuel Cells not engines where big parts of it go flying up and down, then come to a dead stop of every revolution of another big piece that goes flying around. Asia is now developing the technology (helped by their gov) that used to come out of US Government funded research labs. Lawrence Livermore, Argonne, Bell, etc....while the US tax payer decries any increase in tax's to fund these research establishments, and healthcare to young kids that could make the next great breakthrough whilst employed there.

But in 50 years time the World Government with its headquarters in Shanghai, will make sure that Piston engine cars will be outlawed, never to be run again except if converted to Hydrogen as the average world temp has risen by 5 degrees. So a Viper that wants to run will have a big Hydrogen tank sitting on the back, whilst youngsters don't give it a passing look as they fire up their equivalent 800 hp, fuel cell cars....I mean adapt or die. I mean America isn't adapting in its thinking, moving forward, and this board expresses it so adroitly, as you want and hark after the same ole, same ole....

I mean "lead or get outta the way"....instead we are being pushed out of the way. Anyone remember what happened to the UK motorbike industry ? All those great brands like Cotton, Matchless, Rudge, Valocet, AJ, Triumph, Enfield, BSA and lost more....gone because they didn't adapt to what the customer wanted,....not the 300 customers but the millions of customers wanted in Honda, Kawasaki, with electric start, turn indicators, etc

------> VRYALT3R3D so you...."personally"....one of the 300, who has or would like to buy a Viper, out of a country of 350 million, want to keep it pretty much with engine technology that was developed over 100 years ago, but just more of it is, (V10, V12 ?)....bigger is better,....(no wait that is just what all my GF tell me).

I mean this continual vociferous demanding of a product that helps create an illusion of a "Huckleberry Finn" world that has long gone, is quite frankly disturbing. I mean where is NASCAR going to get its new fans in 10, 20, years time ?

Well I could go on.....but I think you get it.....but don't want to see it.

 

[Ian]

Ian. I just realized who you may be based on all of the Viper related events that you say that you have attended and will be attending. Are you Ian Sharp who recently wrote the guest editorial for Allpar? If so, do you have any additional thoughts on the Gen V since you wrote the article that you would like to share?

I may be that person....I have lots of information....even down to my involvement with Reynard and J&P motorsorts in Atlanta who designed and developed the original Viper for racing on a contract from Chrysler, before Oreca took over. People don't realize that the original Viper and how it success at Le Mans was developed. The Aero work done at Reynard at there wind tunnel at Shrivenham where all the championship winning IndyCars were developed, and I might add the High nose Formula 1 concept was discovered before Adrian sold the whole design to Benneton F1 John Caldwell in California did a great job developing the engines - before these clowns at Arrow Racing now do them for SRT with Flywheels and clutches that fall off now (Last Viper race parts keep falling off)

 

[VRYALT3R3D]

But what is it specifically you want? On this board, it is all..... I want this, I want this, I want that, no I want this......lots of opinions but pure schizophrenia....no wonder the SRT boys were confused, and the gen V came out with change everything....but change nothing. It goes back to my saying which Bob Lutz says.....customers don't know what they want until you give it to them.

I wanted a light car that has a manual transmission with the best power-weight ratio that is also extremely good on the track. The only other car that really competed to the Viper was the ZR1. I ruled it out because it was nearly $15k more then the Viper and it needed significant improvements in the interior to the tune of $8k to make me happy.

Don't forget that in my world SRT should be the development division of the organization where they test market and experiment new technologies etc (I mean it doesn't matter if a few of you genteel folks on here get grilled, lost, does it....lol.....the gene pool diversity joke improving the breed....lol)

I am not against new technologies as long as it doesn't interfere with the core reasons I bought the Viper. The technology should compliment the Viper's strength but not add weaknesses, AWD would add weight. I would be interested in something that retains the RWD but improves putting the power down. Ford has tourqe vectoring that weakends the torque steer in the Focus ST.

I think it is great that you enjoy a "I enjoy having a 640HP, N/A, RWD, manual exotic too much" and the 300 or so others who have laid there money down, but that doesn't help the brand survive when they plan for 2,000.....and 2,000 is a good number to make and still keep it exclusive.

Since 2009, The Nissan GT-R never sold over 2000 units in a year. 2000 sales for the Viper is not realistic. Realistically, 2000 sounds more like the plant's capacity. The 2013 MY is currently outselling the 2009MY and 2010MY for the Viper. The year isn't over yet. BTW, 2013 YTD is 461.

This technology is on the way....Toyota is going to be selling to the general public a Fuel Cell car in a few years, which this technology was an interim step towards and kids in 50 years time will be tuning Fuel Cells not engines where big parts of it go flying up and down, then come to a dead stop of every revolution of another big piece that goes flying around. Asia is now developing the technology (helped by their gov) that used to come out of US Government funded research labs. Lawrence Livermore, Argonne, Bell, etc....while the US tax payer decries any increase in tax's to fund these research establishments, and healthcare to young kids that could make the next great breakthrough whilst employed there.

Ford is not investing and developing fuel cell cars. If Ford doesn't seem to want to invest in it, there must be a good a reason why...

But in 50 years time the World Government with its headquarters in Shanghai, will make sure that Piston engine cars will be outlawed, never to be run again except if converted to Hydrogen as the average world temp has risen by 5 degrees. So a Viper that wants to run will have a big Hydrogen tank sitting on the back, whilst youngsters don't give it a passing look as they fire up their equivalent 800 hp, fuel cell cars....I mean adapt or die. I mean America isn't adapting in its thinking, moving forward, and this board expresses it so adroitly, as you want and hark after the same ole, same ole....

That is quite the hypothetical story there.

------> VRYALT3R3D so you...."personally"....one of the 300, who has or would like to buy a Viper, out of a country of 350 million, want to keep it pretty much with engine technology that was developed over 100 years ago, but just more of it is, (V10, V12 ?)....bigger is better,....(no wait that is just what all my GF tell me).

I live in a country that has 35 million citizens...Canada. You keep thinking I live in the United States for some reason.

The V10 has its advantages. It has a low cg, it makes a ton of power N/A so heatsoak is not an issue. (The ZR1 and GT500 has pretty severe heatsoak issues. Yes, I plan on tracking the Viper) and it has the most torque out of any engine in the world. The V10 in the Viper also has forged internals.

I mean this continual vociferous demanding of a product that helps create an illusion of a "Huckleberry Finn" world that has long gone, is quite frankly disturbing. I mean where is NASCAR going to get its new fans in 10, 20, years time ?

Well I could go on.....but I think you get it.....but don't want to see it.