Viper Recall #998 and #999 - READ BEFORE YOU GO TO THE DEALER

[C O D Y]

Do you noticed the difference in the times for GTS and RT/10 (.4) gas tank removals? If I remember correctly, the GTS has to have the rear tub (under the carpet) cut open to get the tank out. There is a patch kit to fix it after it's been cut, but not what I would want done my car. Good luck to everyone.

**UPDATE**

I just checked my manual:

"The viper coupe does not have a Fuel Tank Closeout Panel. To remove fuel tank a hole will have to be cut in the trunk pan. Refer to the templet that comes with the closeout panel and using a suitable cutting tool, to cut the truck pan. For installation of panel refer to closeout Panel Installation Procedures."

 

[JonB]

Important technicality:

The frames on 1996 RT/10s are indeed DIFFERENT from frames on
1992-1995 RTs, but also different from GEN-2 frames. 1996 RT/10s have a stand-alone frame. The strongest production Viper frame til now, in fact. Too bad I'm out of em !

Why? They hung the GTS suspension, but were Air-Bag-Less. The air-bag frames have sectioned cutout crush zones in front.

The non-airbag frames did not.

CHECK YOUR RECALL LETTER AND VIN # HOWEVER..... The 96 RT may indeed still be affected, but its frame is "Different"

 

[Henry Cone]

In response to the question raised as to whether or not it is possible to inspect the differential mounts for cracks without removing the differential - I believe that it IS possible to do so. Though this is tougher to do than the steering rack mount in the front I believe that a thorough inspection of the differential mounts can be made without removing the differential. We put our cars up on jack stands and wipe off the underside of them after each track event. One of the big reasons for doing this is to inspect for damage such as weld cracks which might not be able to be seen if there is dirt, grease, etc in the way. Don't get me wrong - this involves getting up close and personal with your differential (Janni and I have quite a life, don't we...).

So you should be able to inspect your differential mount welds for cracks prior to visiting a dealership. Doing this should enable you to plan for what parts of the recall would be required for your car.

So while inspection is possible I don't think that it is possible to install the differential mount reinforcing pieces with the differential in the way. Thus removing the differential will be required for all cars requiring Recall 998...

 

[genXgts]

Kudus to Janni and Henry, yet another benefit of turning to the internet, more specifically the viperclub for the true skinny on things, which more often than not is a different tune than your friendly local 5 star Dodge dealer (for us hick towns) plays to Viper owners.......local dealers in my area will never see my car for this issue.

great site, great people, great info!

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Excellent information! I know some folks are in "panic mode" and you should NOT be. This recall actually came out in OCTOBER OF LAST YEAR:

http://vca1.viperclub.org/ubb/Forum14/HTML/007313.html

http://vca1.viperclub.org/ubb/Forum14/HTML/002254.html

That last thread also has Dean's excellent picture to reference. While this issue certainly needs to be addressed, I am not going to run to the nearest dealership (wide-eyed and arms flailing) since it has been a known issue for some time. Get with your local VCA members and see which dealership(s) they are looking to for these repairs. As there is welding required, you want to make sure you get a good dealership that knows what they are doing. I know our local club is meeting next Tuesday and this will definitely be a hot topic. Let's keep the information going!

Chris

 

[jamie]

Big thanks to Janni!!

 

[TOOOFST]

My co.WWW.westlakewelding.com is a member of AWS(american welding society)for 10yrs and every fabricator has 1-5 certifications for all position welding processes
Make sure your welder has current certifications(75%don't have it or its not to date).Our trucks travel the chicagoland area,glad to help with the weld repairs.
Scott TOOOFST.847-657-8680

 

[Snake Bitten]

I am a little concerned that the inspections appear to only be "visual"...minor cracking may not be visible to the naked eye...I would recommend asking for a Magnetic Particle Examination on carbon steel parts and a Liquid Penetrant Dye Examination on the non-ferous materials, similiar to those inspections performed on engine blocks and in a machine shop...you could have your car "visually" inspected, only for the cracks to open up later on, especially areas where the cracks are anticipated to be in the "base metal"...I was very disappointed in the overall weld quality after inspecting my RT/10...I did not find any cracks, but some of the welds were definitely "sugared"...I too would recommend insisting on certified welders for these repairs(alot of this welding will be in the overhead position, most difficult).

 

[HogWhisperer]

Janni and Henry,

Thanks you VERY much for taking the time to clue us in. I have the dreaded 998 RECALL so up on stands it goes this weekend so I can inspect it. I've already printed the pics you provided.

Thanks again....

Paul

 

[VIPERESS]

Thank you so much Janni and Henry for all the information, and for taking the time to provide it to all of us with such detail and wonderful explanation. In my opinion, that is what a truly great car club is all about, members who truly care and are concerned about eachother, and look out for one another. You are both a fine example of true comraderie within the club. Thanks again

Looks like I may be in for "double" trouble:sad: I'm going to do a thorough visual inspection of them up on the lift this weekend

Enjoy the holiday weekend!!
Laura

 

[shifter]

I have a concern that build quality is substantially different from vehicle to vehicle, that might give one with a street only car a false sense of security. I read JonB's post about 10,000 track miles and no cracks, Dan Cragin highlights the same thought process of track time cars and slicks aggravating the issue, but I've also read rdustman's post about having the recall repairs completed, zero track miles, no slicks, and cracks both front and rear. There must be another variable.

Obviously we need to be checking ours cars frequently, but I don't think those who don't hit the track should take this any less seriously. There had to have been a significant number of failures to warrant a recall like this whose allowable hours are so high (highest I've ever been privy to for a recall) albeit arguably not generous enough for the Viper.

 

[Henry Cone]

We took time this afternoon to look closely at one of our 2 1996 GTS's. We did this to see if it was possible to inspect the areas of concern without too much trouble and without removing the differential.

The steering rack welds are easy to see and inspect carefully even without a lift. We do all of our work on our cars on jack stands and found that the front was easy to inspect with the car like this. It is important to fully clean the steering rack mount and it welds - otherwise it is easy to miss something. Once wiped off a careful inspection with a strong light showed no problem on this car. This is what we expected as we check these welds before every track event.

The rear is more difficult to inspect but it is possible to inspect the left side differential mount welds without removing the differential. Again it requires careful cleaning of all of the weld areas. It also required a strong light and an inspection mirror. It is particularly difficult to see the weld areas on top of the differential mount but with the inspection mirror it can be done. Again we did this with the car on jack stands.

We did this to see if it was possible. We plan to have an "inspection day" for club members in our area to find cars with any weld cracks so that these can get scheduled to repair as soon as possible. Since we can do these inspections without removing the differential we can check everyone's car quickly and determine which ones urgently need attention and which ones can wait a little longer....

 

[Mike H]

I have allready had my 96 rt-10 welded once before and it broke again. We found that racing the cars (don't we all do that?) breaks the welds loose. The racks are only spot welded at the clips. We welded them all the way around and they still will break. The 2002 model cars have an entire different and better mounting rack and that is what Dodge wants to upgrade the earlier year cars to. I now have both my rt-10 and my VRL race car in at Barbera Dodge in Pa having them both upgraded.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

I received my official recall notice in today's mail...

 

[99 R/T 10]

I just got my recall notice as well. As I have many more miles on my car than most(40,500), I expect to find problems with my frame just due to the amount of road time on the chassis.

Mike

 

[Ulysses]

Got mine too.

 

[Janni]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by toddt:
It REALLY annoyes me that we MUST worry when we take these cars in to the dealers. I am convinced that every time I take ANY of my cars in to the dealer they ALWAYS come back in worse shape than they were prior, even if it's just a new scratch on the dash, or a scrape in the paint.

Worst of all, the Viper, the MOST EXPENSIVE car Dodge sells by more than 10,000 dollars, gets treated like the freaking Neon when it's on the dealer lot. I HATE THAT!!!

What is the problem here?? Why can't they treat our cars the way WE treat them? They should treat them BETTER than we treat them!

&lt;huff!&gt; okay. I feel better now. sorry for venting...


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Todd,
In a way, I agree. However, I don't think we should get treated any better than the Neon owner. Its all about customer service and respect for a person's property. I could have bought 4 Neons or one Viper - should I get treated 4 times better if I brought the Viper in? No.

Here are my thoughts. I'll bet the dealers see a WIDE VARIATION in the levels of care that people take of their cars. Admit it - you've seen wide variations in how folks care about their Vipers... so it may be easy to assume everyone cares about their cars like the person who has 52 McDonald's bags in the back seat, 4 months worth of grime on the paint and a grease covered engine comaprtment. Anyway you look at it though, cars are purchased with SOMEONE'S hard earned money. Common decency says that you treat other people's property with care and consideration while it is in your care. That is the bottom line - not that we "deserve" better because we can buy more expensive cars. Caring is free.

The one way that Dodge can encourage this is to make sure the shop times are in line with the time it actually takes to do the repair. Like this recall. Let's make sure that you can remove the diff and the 50K mile exhaust, inspect and install braces in 2.X hours without ripping stuff apart. Heck, I know we struggled that long getting the dang Borla off my car when we changed the diff this past winter.

One way we can help is to thank the dealers that go the extra mile, buy more vehicles from them and write a letter on their behalf. Usually one of the benefits of a slower economy is an increased focus on customer service, as folks try more traditional techniques to attract the smaller buyer pool - let's hope we see it here.

 

[jcaspar1]

I have heard that DOdge actually loses money on Viper sales (or at least makes very little). Maybe the Neon buyer should be treated better!

 

[Richard K]

Is there any set period of time in which we have to respond to the recall...

 

[Viper Wizard]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 'VIPERESS':
Has anyone in New York decided where they are taking their cars,
just the very thought of bringing the cars is enough to give me the chills

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Laura,

Do not fear the "Viper Wizard" is here!
I'm getting my New MIG Welder next week, I traded my 150 for a 200 [ MORE POWER!

].
I already have a list of Vipers to do. The first Viper on the chopping block &gt; I mean, in my schedule

is "Poizenus". I might as well start at the top with our Club President! [Joe this won't hurt a bit.

]

Don't hesitate to call me and I can explain in detail what we are going to do to your baby and why! Just kept in mind that I'm a very small Dealer with two Viper Tech's and one of them is me! When I schedule you don't fall over at the date I give you.

Everybody DO NOT PANIC!

This Recall should and must be performed to correct or prevent future problems!!
Do the research and find the right Tech!

 

[Tomer]

Chuck, please move to Northern California asap.

thank you.

Tomer

 

[Viper Wizard]

That's the other project I'm working on - Clones!

The last batch, my right arm was on the left?

 

[VIPERESS]

I received both of mine yesterday

I also did visual inspection of the cars, and fortunately do not see anything.
Has anyone in New York decided where they are taking their cars,
just the very thought of bringing the cars is enough to give me the chills

 

[toddt]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 'VIPERESS':

just the very thought of bringing the cars is enough to give me the chills

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It REALLY annoyes me that we MUST worry when we take these cars in to the dealers. I am convinced that every time I take ANY of my cars in to the dealer they ALWAYS come back in worse shape than they were prior, even if it's just a new scratch on the dash, or a scrape in the paint.

Worst of all, the Viper, the MOST EXPENSIVE car Dodge sells by more than 10,000 dollars, gets treated like the freaking Neon when it's on the dealer lot. I HATE THAT!!!

What is the problem here?? Why can't they treat our cars the way WE treat them? They should treat them BETTER than we treat them!

&lt;huff!&gt; okay. I feel better now. sorry for venting...

 

[genXgts]

Chuck, seriously considering a drive over to get mine done at your place, maybe a convoy of a few early GenII's, gonna point us to the nearest watering holes or what?? ROAD TRIP!

No one in Canada will see my car for this recall, no one.

 

[Andrew2KRT10]

I'm pissed. Just spoke to Chuck and he is the only one I trust in my area to do the work, but he's not getting paid enough! Hell, I don't want to screw the guy. I think we should all boycott VOI 7 untill Chrysler pays the dealers more to do this recall. (Just kidding...I'm registered already)
At least I know I'm going to bring some goodies from Arthur Ave. for Chuck when he works on my car. I want him happy.

AC

 

[VIPERESS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Viper Wizard:
Hi Laura,
Do not fear the "Viper Wizard" is here!
Don't hesitate to call me and I can explain in detail what we are going to do to your baby and why!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok "Viper Wizard",
I'll be calling you. Oh and Chuck, it will be for the "babies", not baby

Laura

 

[toddt]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janni:
However, I don't think we should get treated any better than the Neon owner. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not to argue the point too much, but in an ideal world, you would be correct entirely! I understand why you would say such a thing.

However, it is nowhere close to an ideal world, and dealer care is a zero sum game. There are only so many spots on the lot to park cars. There is only so much time, like you say, for the dealers to spend with each car. There are only so many qualified Viper techs.

So if there is a spot by itself with no cars nearby, the Viper MUST go there. It is an EXOTIC CAR. It is much more important that the 9000 dollar viper hood not be dinged, than the 200 dollar neon door panel (plastic anyhow).

If I'm spending the most money, I expect the best service. This is the USA, not Moscow.

I worked my way up to this point over many years, with much help from God, to arrive here. When I was driving Neons, I did not expect, nor should I have, viper service. Much to my surprise, when I finally got my first viper, I expected better, but got Neon service (at the place near my house).

Now AUTOWORLD in petaluma (a long way away) treated me like a KING. I know there are dealers out there who are "different", but it should be a company-wide thing.

The bottom line is, I and nearly everyone else I speak to worries about the treatment of their car (rightly!) every time they get dropped off.

Perhaps those dealers share your belief that they should treat the Vipers like Neons.

 

[SEASNAKE]

Guys,

Don't just trust a cursory glance, although it should work on the front. You have to remove the rear end in order to properly inspect all of the rear failure points.

I'm sure glad I have a 2001!

 

[ACR Jim]

I'd first like to thank Henry & Janni for getting some great information out to us. I'm surprised that there has been so much silence on this thread of late. Has anyone else had the recall performed and have additional pictures or experience to share?

Does anyone have a concern about the fact that the front gussets that are being added are riveted in place? Rivets are prone to corrosion problems, I belive some Vipers had a rivet corrosion problem with the side sills, while I realize that the type may vary it is a common problem. I heard a lot of people voicing concerns about having welding performed on their cars...with good reason as certified welders, as others have stated, are not normally found at dealerships. However we should not ignore the fact that a welded support will not entrap moisture that can lead to a rusted frame, and the strength of a welded support will be superior to a riveted one as well.

The consensus is that part of the problem is the front rails of the frame flexing due to the lower A-arm mounting point being in an unsupported point in front of the cross-member. Has anyone asked why the same diagonal supports that are behind the cross-member are not mirrored in front of the cross-member. What have some of the race cars done that probably discovered this a long time ago...GTSR/Oreca cars? If this frame is flexing as we believe, only supporting the bottom with the supplied gussets, would leave the possibility of twisting as the top would not have the support that the bottom would have.

I think everyone would agree that thinking this through and ensuring that the fix...truly is AND that is does not lead to other problems. This is the type of problem that this board serves best.

Thoughts?

Jim