The topic of the thread is DRAG RACING (nothing to do with roadracing) .The fact of the matter is TWO of the best drag racers in the country on STOCK RADIAL tires(Smith and Furman ) either own or have driven both cars down the quarter mile and have routinely achieved times with the Vette that the origional poster CLAIMED were impossible.
Viper vs. Z06 1/4 mile time question
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PLEASE WITH ALL DUE RESPECT i have been present for many a mag test as a matter of fact alot of time i arrange for Vipers to be tested by the mags (point in fact i arranged the Super Chevy test of VCA President Joe Houss Gen 2 against a Z06 back in 2001) the Z06 Smith ran MID 11S(SUPER CHEVY ) was a STOCK PRODUCTION CAR The differences in times are reflected by driver ability ,track elevation ,testing methods.ANY test of a new Z06 thats trapping 117 mph is no where near reflecting the cars cabability.
Speedfreak
Viper Owner
I am familiar with this guy too. He runs at my local track. He has run 10's but not with stock tires. So brings to mine what is considered stock. I am pretty sure he was running drag radials. He has done a series of articles in a corvette magazine I get (I own a 69 vette also) and has been meticulous about refining his technique. But he launches the car, as I recall, at about 5000 RPM. That cannot be done on a stock tire.
I was just at the track in some of the best weather conditions a drag racer can dream up last wednesday. Density altitude was -1000 to -1400 feet with great track bite, etc. I watched 3 HEAVILY modifed Z06's run and one guy I know personally. His car has monster drag radials, headers and full exhaust system, cam change and air intake system. His best was an 11.10 at 130.
So the average, stock z06 car and driver is not going to get anywhere near 10's let alone mid 11's. 1BadGTS is right that driver plays a very important role in getting the most out of these cars, either z06 or viper. I ran 11.80 at 120.3 which appears to be a very good time in a stock 06 vert on run flats and I know for a fact that with just a tire change to a drag radial this would be 11.5-11.6. There is so much power that the wheel spin, launch and shifting technique can easily account for .5 seconds. So the power is there, but it is very hard to harness.
That is why 08 vipers are still in the mid 11's in most tests. The power is there but the driving technique and traction aren't. What would be interesting to see is exactly what a stock z06, 06 viper and 08 viper, would run with only a tire change. In other words, lets let them all hook up and then see who really is king. I think in that race the viper wins easily.
Ah, but the entire world is not at near sea level with a track that consistently provides the best times around. Try again.
You see real people do live at more moderate altitudes (read damn near all of us). The story My600HP provided sounds like same day, same driver, same track for all three. Do you have a specific example of the same. If so show it. Otherwise, well you know.
I have heard about the 2 coastal tracks and people spouting for damn near forever. And then everyone in between those 2 coasts thinks they can do the same. No true. I will bet that you or any of those you put on a pedestal cannot come to the same track that MY600HP indicated and make a 10 second run in any of the 3 cars mentioned (stock of course).
Like I said, the C-6 Z-06 is quicker than a stock '06 Viper. Both cars with average drivers are 12 sec cars. Most of these great passes are on the East coast. So I'm not sure what the argument is about? You simply can't tell me that a pass at Englishtown is the same as a pass at California Speedway. Additionally how many years and how many Z-06's did it take to refine these results. Because a couple of great drivers are able to post these times on a given day with the stars aligned perfectly does'nt make the Z-06 a 10 sec car. It makes them the greatest drivers. My whole point here was that a guy is claiming to have both cars, one heavily modded with sticky tires (Viper)and somehow believes that because the mags say the Z-06 is quicker, it must be.
I guess the Z06 guys in South florida are a bunch of idiots! because I haven't seen any "STOCK" Z06 run in the tens. I will give you some slack because there are so much variables not only conditions but the track it's self. I had a ProMod 70 Chrager with a 636 ci alky injected Hemi with a lenco trans that ran 7.09's @200 mph At moroso in West Palm Beach, when I took it to an NHRA prep track Gainesville like Englishtown I ran a best of 6.78 @ 203 mph in almost the same weather conditions. That's three tens and 3 mph my friend just on a better track. I could never leave at 7000 rpm without blowing the tires off in Moroso. my short time in Gainsville was .98 while at Moroso was 1.05 and if you know anything about drag racing those 60 foot times affect your et more than any other indicator! That said, my Gen 3 I ran real bone stock as a baseline and ran a best 12.06 @ 120 mph (moroso) then I put a K&N flash the computer installed a comp coupe exhaust, no cats and stock manifolds and ran a best of 11.85 @ 125 And here's the wammy I swapped out the rear for 3.55's and ran a best of 11.38 @ 129 in a "SLOW GEN THREE CAR" I could have told everybody without a clue the car was bone stock and they would have eaten that, beacause all those times were with run crap tires!(STOCK) my car looks like it came off the show room floor! And BTW all those times I provided are verified weather conditions are plus and minus of 1% down to the track surface temps. To make sure I give you no bogus times, as the times flux was as much as 3.5 tenths and 4 mph depending on track condtions. I bet on a good day I can run high tens if I were to swap to a 4.10 or 4.30 gear and more fine tuning and then since my car looks stock I will tell every one that a stock Gen three is faster than a Gen 4 But of coarse that would be B.S. as we already know!
Will there be any new facts in this debate that haven't appeared in the numerous threads available here on the subject? I picked a few threads from our nifty search feature available on this site:
http://forums.viperclub.org/srt10-s...-viper-outruns-zr1.html?highlight=viper+vette
http://forums.viperclub.org/srt10-s...xperts-please-comment.html?highlight=1/4+mile
http://forums.viperclub.org/srt10-s...-4-mile-times-08-09-a.html?highlight=1/4+mile
http://forums.viperclub.org/srt10-s...009-z06-track-results.html?highlight=1/4+mile
http://forums.viperclub.org/driven/619474-drove-zo6-today-shocking.html?highlight=1/4+mile
But if you don't want to read through the hundreds, if not thousands, of similiar topics let me summarize the points for you:
- The Z06 is faster than the Viper
- The Viper is faster than the Z06
- Humidity, track conditions, temps are a factor
- The driver is the ultimate factor
- Someone's friend of a friend of a friend of a magazine drives 10's all day long, nobody seems capable other than this special friend
- Both cars are capable of 10's but nobody seems to be able to actually post a timeslip for either car indicating such
- Stock tires vs. Drag Radials
- NOS vs. TT vs. SC
- Vette folks love the Vette
- Viper folks love the Viper
Years of ******* up the rope on the Z06 vs. Viper debates have yielded one constant: It's a driver's race.
Carry on.
http://forums.viperclub.org/srt10-s...-viper-outruns-zr1.html?highlight=viper+vette
http://forums.viperclub.org/srt10-s...xperts-please-comment.html?highlight=1/4+mile
http://forums.viperclub.org/srt10-s...-4-mile-times-08-09-a.html?highlight=1/4+mile
http://forums.viperclub.org/srt10-s...009-z06-track-results.html?highlight=1/4+mile
http://forums.viperclub.org/driven/619474-drove-zo6-today-shocking.html?highlight=1/4+mile
But if you don't want to read through the hundreds, if not thousands, of similiar topics let me summarize the points for you:
- The Z06 is faster than the Viper
- The Viper is faster than the Z06
- Humidity, track conditions, temps are a factor
- The driver is the ultimate factor
- Someone's friend of a friend of a friend of a magazine drives 10's all day long, nobody seems capable other than this special friend
- Both cars are capable of 10's but nobody seems to be able to actually post a timeslip for either car indicating such
- Stock tires vs. Drag Radials
- NOS vs. TT vs. SC
- Vette folks love the Vette
- Viper folks love the Viper
Years of ******* up the rope on the Z06 vs. Viper debates have yielded one constant: It's a driver's race.
Carry on.
Warfang
Enthusiast
Throwing ringers like Ranger and the gang into the conversation is like buying the same Nikes as Usain Bolt and complaining that you don't run as fast as he does.
On a strip, these cars are near identical, with the vette having a slight advantage because it's easy enough for a granny to to launch. It takes a lot more skill to handle a Viper, especially during launch. Yet for some reason these vette flunkies are all picking up Vipers. Hmm... with enough practice, I'm sure they'll get better Viper times too. But fact is... unless you put in the time and effort these guy do, don't complain that you can't achieve the same feat as they do... SC or not.
Now on a road course... NOTHING even comes close to an ACR.
On a strip, these cars are near identical, with the vette having a slight advantage because it's easy enough for a granny to to launch. It takes a lot more skill to handle a Viper, especially during launch. Yet for some reason these vette flunkies are all picking up Vipers. Hmm... with enough practice, I'm sure they'll get better Viper times too. But fact is... unless you put in the time and effort these guy do, don't complain that you can't achieve the same feat as they do... SC or not.
Now on a road course... NOTHING even comes close to an ACR.
Speedfreak
Viper Owner
Kenny, we are talking about the same track. As stated above, the best I saw a highly modified z06 run in the best weather imaginable was 11.10 @ 130. So what would a stocker have run under the same conditions? By the way, PM me the next time you head to the track. I am the only lonely viper out there in a sea of corvettes. LOL.
It's pretty interesting that the fastest ever built vette the ZR1 doesn't get mentioned in this thread. You know the vette with 133 MORE hp than the Z06? The vette that loses to the ACR?
The vette forums are a different site, the site where vettes are fast?
Ted
The vette forums are a different site, the site where vettes are fast?
Ted
Speedfreak, I won't paint myself in a corner. but someone needs to prove to me that a stock Z06 or any car for that matter! that has 450 wheel hp and weighs 3300lb and I'm being generous on both counts will run even high tens under any weather condition. it all comes down to hp to weight ratio with all else equal.
I have built some serious monster HP Hemi's for myself and customers over the years and don't consider myself a viper or vette expert but physics don't lie, But people do! So if someone wants to make me wrong and I can deal with that beacause nobody is ever right all the time in drag racing they can stop by we'll but the Z06 on my lift check it out (stock) take it to the track an a "great day" and prove me wrong! did I say prove me wrong!
Now on a lighter note, Moroso just bacame Palm Beach Internation speedway. The new owners spent 60 million on a complete upgrade. they poured a full concrete track so it looks like my et will be more in line with an NHRA prep tracks! Hey wait a minute I might me able to see a stock 10 sec. vette now...
I'll PM you when we go out next time I need some to laugh with at the track sometimes!agentf1
Enthusiast
There is probably only one person in theis world that can make a stock Z06 run 10's and that is Ranger. Most people are in high 11's / low 12's at best.
I suspect if you give Ranger a Viper and allowed him to practive his methodology in it for a length of time he would eventually get a Viper in the 10's also.
It is all about the driver and just a little about the car when it comes to drag racing IMHO.
I suspect if you give Ranger a Viper and allowed him to practive his methodology in it for a length of time he would eventually get a Viper in the 10's also.
It is all about the driver and just a little about the car when it comes to drag racing IMHO.
Why/how can a stock (engine, tires, everything) Z06 Corvette run a quarter mile in the 10s, and it takes a supercharged Viper to get into the 10s? Why is the Z06 so much quicker in the quarter mile?
I know there is a weight difference, gear difference, etc. Why is the stock Z06 so much quicker in the 1/4 than even modified Vipers (and the new Viper's are not in the 10s)
I own an '06 Coupe Viper with a Paxton, Corsa exhaust, 3.55 gears, Pilot Sport Cups, and an '08 stock Z06. I have not and probably will not ever drag race them due to the fact that there is no quarter mile tracks anywhere nearby.Driving each of them, it feels like the Z would not even come CLOSE to the Viper in a quarter mile..........but, according to published reports and various postings on several forums, my two cars would probably have pretty close times. WHY?
(They are two VERY different cars, and love each of them for what they are......both are AWESOME cars!)
Simple.
Driver mod.
Man are there a bunch of ignorant and narrow-minded people on this forum. What a pitty.
To the OP...
1. Yes, there are bone stock Z06's with stock tires that have seen 10's and are well documented. You can count them with the fingers of one hand...a descent driver will only see low/mid 11's out of the Z though. Unfortunately, half Z06 drivers are simply posers (like a lot of Viper owners) and they will never see 11's as they don't have the slightest clue how to shift and belong in a cadillac.
2. You are NOT going to get an unbiased opinion here when comparing a Z06 to a Viper. If you go to a Z06 forum, you will also fail to get an unbiased opinion. Seek only the opinions of people that ARE familiar with both cars. You will know who they are by their responses.
3. To answer your original question: the Z06 is easier to drive at max, and is also lighter and has better gearing. I have ran against a couple of local owners (they can chime in if they want) with Vipers pushing way over 650rwhp+...the Z06 will not disappoint.
4. Driver mod is huge on cars that make a lot of power...you can have all the power on the world...but if you can't use it properly, it is absolutely useless.
To the OP...
1. Yes, there are bone stock Z06's with stock tires that have seen 10's and are well documented. You can count them with the fingers of one hand...a descent driver will only see low/mid 11's out of the Z though. Unfortunately, half Z06 drivers are simply posers (like a lot of Viper owners) and they will never see 11's as they don't have the slightest clue how to shift and belong in a cadillac.
2. You are NOT going to get an unbiased opinion here when comparing a Z06 to a Viper. If you go to a Z06 forum, you will also fail to get an unbiased opinion. Seek only the opinions of people that ARE familiar with both cars. You will know who they are by their responses.
3. To answer your original question: the Z06 is easier to drive at max, and is also lighter and has better gearing. I have ran against a couple of local owners (they can chime in if they want) with Vipers pushing way over 650rwhp+...the Z06 will not disappoint.
4. Driver mod is huge on cars that make a lot of power...you can have all the power on the world...but if you can't use it properly, it is absolutely useless.
ILLSMOQ
Enthusiast
because the Z06 is lighter, and can carry full power for another 1000 rpm(7k redline) before it has to shift to the next gear. Simple as that.
snakeplissken
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I tend to Agree. My 07 ZO6 was faster than my 06 Viper. My 08 ACR is faster than my 07Z. I own a 09 ZR1 as well and I think the in a straight line the ZR1 is faster than the 08 Viper. But around a road course the ACR walks the ZR1.
mcar00
Viper Owner
Warfang
Enthusiast
Yep. Especially with the aero on the ACR... it was never meant to be a go-straight only kinda car. Maybe Dodge needs an ADR (American Drag Racer) edition.
Who Really Cares! Everyone always gets so deffensive over their cars when someone mentions Corvette. Stock vs stock Viper, Z06 and ZR1 all very closely matched in the 1/4 mile it comes down to driver more than anything. I have a friend that has a Z06 and it is much easier to drive fast and hard compared to my Viper. If you considered upgrading all three with headers and slicks I am sure the Viper would come out ontop. One important thing if you want to run with the Z's ******* you can.
Ray W
Enthusiast
If that Vette is silver I have seen it run. I don't think it is heavily modded. Headers,intake and cam I think. If I can ever get my headers and gears installed I'll be out again soon.
Speedfreak
Viper Owner
Ray, this car is yellow. I quess I should qualify what I mean by heavily modded. To me headers and a full exhaust, intake and cam and drag radials is alot of mod (by power anyway). But others may see it differently. That has to be 50-70 HP at the wheels and the DRs make a giant difference in traction. Certainly the same on a Viper would make it a whole different car and a long way from stock in performance.
Ray W
Enthusiast
Moral of the story. When drag racing against the Z06,bring your "A" game,or go home beaten.
jamie furman
Enthusiast
Speedfreak, I won't paint myself in a corner. but someone needs to prove to me that a stock Z06 or any car for that matter! that has 450 wheel hp and weighs 3300lb and I'm being generous on both counts will run even high tens under any weather condition. it all comes down to hp to weight ratio with all else equal.
I have built some serious monster HP Hemi's for myself and customers over the years and don't consider myself a viper or vette expert but physics don't lie, But people do! So if someone wants to make me wrong and I can deal with that beacause nobody is ever right all the time in drag racing they can stop by we'll but the Z06 on my lift check it out (stock) take it to the track an a "great day" and prove me wrong! did I say prove me wrong!
Now on a lighter note, Moroso just bacame Palm Beach Internation speedway. The new owners spent 60 million on a complete upgrade. they poured a full concrete track so it looks like my et will be more in line with an NHRA prep tracks! Hey wait a minute I might me able to see a stock 10 sec. vette now...
By the way my Z06 weighs 3090 with 1/2 tank of fuel.
Here is a timeslip for a bone stock Z06 with a capable driver.
Mir Raceway Budds Creek Md
Nov 30 2007
39 Degrees
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Here is a video of a traction limited average pass in the same car on the factory runflats. If you listen to the video you can hear my tires loosing traction which resulted in some weak 2.05 short time on that particular run, the track temp was too cold for my car with bad 60's all day but even on this particular day the car ran 11.10 at 130 mph on its best run of the day. The run in the video was one of my first of the day after driving 2 hours to the track and a friend of mine wanted to see if his GTR had anything for me? We had a big turnout this particular day but the air temps were too cold (35 degrees) and traction was a big problem for all the 2 wheel drive cars.
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32. blue Corvette vs GTR @ MIR
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snakeplissken
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Jamie that is proof to me that at a ridiculously low temperature at a near sea level track with an excellent driver a Z can just barely crack the 10 second range (by 0.019 second). Any other place it would not. In other words it is not a 10 second car. At a local dragstrip, in summer temps it would be running mid 11's with good drivers and low 12's with normal drivers. That is the primary reason people argue against the statements that a Z06 is a 10 second car. Because at any higher altitude tracks in the summer none come close to 10 seconds unless they are modified or running slicks.
At 39 degrees my car is parked for the winter and damn sure not out at a race track. I do not care how fast it is under those unusual conditions.
At 39 degrees my car is parked for the winter and damn sure not out at a race track. I do not care how fast it is under those unusual conditions.
Chrissss
Viper Owner
It can't. Once again...you need to read. Also try not being so transparent in your love of the corvette. I am amazed at the corvette lovers that come onto this site and try to stir things up. Does anyone from here go to the corvette website and do that? I don't think so.
jamie furman
Enthusiast
I would love one but I am patient and I know the prices will be like all other high ticket items in the next 3 or 4 months and I believe that prices will be DOWN! So when they start discounting them like Vipers or even half the discount of a Viper I will start getting serious.
Chrissss
Viper Owner
2008 Dodge Viper Coupe
1/4 mile: 11.8 @ 128 MPH
0-60 MPH: 3.6
0-150 MPH: 16.4
2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1
1/4 mile: 11.7 @ 127 MPH
0-60 MPH: 3.6
0-150 MPH: 17.1
jamie furman
Enthusiast
I never claimed they are consistent 10 second cars, but one thing I didn't mention was with drag radials my car has run consistent 10's in good air with a 10.83 being my best time. My car usually runs 11 teens to 11.30's in average air and in hot weather 11.30's to 11.40's on average in mid summer if the water temp is under 190. Of course traction is the key for a good pass, but the fact is MY ACR has turned the best 1/4 mile for a stock Viper so far at 11.07 at 130mph my first day out and I haven't been able to drive it around the Z06 yet and I haven't seen any other cars of any Make or Model break into the 10's by .019 or .001 on any coast at any track in any temps? Maybe the Z is a little faster than some of the homers want to believe?
Oh and one other thing, ask anyone on this board if they make a 10 second pass if they consider their car a 10 second car, yourself included and tell me what the results are.
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A fact is a fact that being a bone stock Z06 with stock tires is capable and has run 10s at an NHRA APPROVED drag strip. .There is no stipulation in that statement to include weather or sea level of particular track.Its well documentated a GREAT DRIVER in a Z06 can run consistant mid 11s in the car.
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