BigCarrot
Enthusiast
I am behaving! It's just that I've NEVER had a stock ZO6 come even close to me! I'm a skeptic! I admit it! I can admit defeat!
Viper VS. Z06 - VIDEO!!
- Thread starter John_C
- Start date
Carrot,
Check out the video, you will see for yourself. I take you at your word, and assume you are stock - if you like I will try and get some Dallas Z06 members to show you a good time at the track. All for fun (and education).
Peace,
Les
Check out the video, you will see for yourself. I take you at your word, and assume you are stock - if you like I will try and get some Dallas Z06 members to show you a good time at the track. All for fun (and education).
Peace,
Les
Z06Les. What is your problem. You seem to be on a kick to "educate" Viper owners. Why don't you go to the Mustang forum and educate them. I am getting darn tired of your "I'll find someone in your area to show you how a Z06 really performs" bs attitude. If I wanted to know more about the Z06 I would have bought one, or even several. But I honestly do not care how close the "edge" is. There are enough opportunities for owners of each to see each other at various tracks and events. Your incessant bragging and educating is doing nothing. Guess we are just too brain dead for your superior intelligence and automotive knowledge. So why don't you drop this "I will find ..." line.
Goodbye. A$$holes like this Ron have worn me out, you win. J Smith ASKS me to find him some racers, I comply. Russ challenges me to a "test", I find him an alternative. Carrot posts on our forum, we are respectful to him. There are just too many people here who have never learned manners, and to you I say kiss my a$$.
To folks like J Smith, Carrot, Chris in KSC it is a shame. It would seem many only want Viper owners in here, your moderators should block us then. I came here to learn about Vipers and help others learn about Z06's. People like Ron know it all, and he wins - life is too short for this crap.
What a waste a few of you are, goodbye.
Les
To folks like J Smith, Carrot, Chris in KSC it is a shame. It would seem many only want Viper owners in here, your moderators should block us then. I came here to learn about Vipers and help others learn about Z06's. People like Ron know it all, and he wins - life is too short for this crap.
What a waste a few of you are, goodbye.
Les
To much talk and not any action. Like I said I ain't scared and look forward to racing whatever win or loose. Hopefully, I will see ya at the track.
Weather permitting I will be in Lena, Ms IHRA(Tuscola Motorsports) track August 17th. Any takers?
Weather permitting I will be in Lena, Ms IHRA(Tuscola Motorsports) track August 17th. Any takers?
Russ M
Enthusiast
Les seems to be showing his true colors in the last post, bottom line he is here to troll up an argument. If this makes his life worth living another pointless day then let him be.
BigCarrot
Enthusiast
If you find a ZO6 guy, I'm probably friends with him! My car has exhaust now, but other than that it's stock. I gained 8rwhp and lost 5lbs of torque from it, so I'm real close to stock. You guys get more from an airbox. I'm ready to run!
Interesting thread. Too long to read it all.
Unfortunately I've only been to the track with Vipers once(whom I invited for fun). On that night, with my car having intake and exhaust, I was running 12.6-8(very humid). Similiarly modded Vipers(motor City madman, genXgts) were running 12.30-12.60. I think it's safe to say we're all pretty poor drivers...but that .30 gap represents to me what realistically the cars run apart. If a stock Z06 is running 12.5(average), a stock Viper that same night will most likely be running 12.20s(average). With good drivers, I think the Z06 maxes out around 12.00 stock, the Viper probably 11.70ish. Roughyl of course.
Obviously there are wild exceptiongs on both sides of the curve. I run with a buddy every week that has a Stock 02 Z06 with DR's that runs 12teens consistently, when even with exhaust, headers and intake I could never best 12.30s. And just because I've never seen a stock or otherwise Viper break out of the 12's certainly doesn't mean I deny it happens.
Ron,
I hope you got my invitation to the Corvetteforum rental evening. Last year MCM and genXgts had a great time and we got to do whatever we wanted. It's a good opportunity to run for fun and put the rides up against some decent competition.
Unfortunately I've only been to the track with Vipers once(whom I invited for fun). On that night, with my car having intake and exhaust, I was running 12.6-8(very humid). Similiarly modded Vipers(motor City madman, genXgts) were running 12.30-12.60. I think it's safe to say we're all pretty poor drivers...but that .30 gap represents to me what realistically the cars run apart. If a stock Z06 is running 12.5(average), a stock Viper that same night will most likely be running 12.20s(average). With good drivers, I think the Z06 maxes out around 12.00 stock, the Viper probably 11.70ish. Roughyl of course.
Obviously there are wild exceptiongs on both sides of the curve. I run with a buddy every week that has a Stock 02 Z06 with DR's that runs 12teens consistently, when even with exhaust, headers and intake I could never best 12.30s. And just because I've never seen a stock or otherwise Viper break out of the 12's certainly doesn't mean I deny it happens.
Ron,
I hope you got my invitation to the Corvetteforum rental evening. Last year MCM and genXgts had a great time and we got to do whatever we wanted. It's a good opportunity to run for fun and put the rides up against some decent competition.
DBK - Yes I did. Though I really did not know who it was from until now. Did you want me to forward the invitation to other Vipers in the area?
I will be taking the SRT to Milan next Friday so will see how it stacks up against other Vipers that day. I may bring the RT/10 as well. Weather plays a big factor. With Milan being around 60 miles from here I plan conservatively.
Sept 25 (a Thursday) sounds good now. I can't forecast that far out. I think I fit in your drivers range as well. Call it mediocre. On the street it is quite different as the Viper hooks up well on concrete and asphalt. But at Milan in the past I have had great difficulty. Very slick. Probably worse with the SRT and its higher gear ratio and run flats.
I will be taking the SRT to Milan next Friday so will see how it stacks up against other Vipers that day. I may bring the RT/10 as well. Weather plays a big factor. With Milan being around 60 miles from here I plan conservatively.
Sept 25 (a Thursday) sounds good now. I can't forecast that far out. I think I fit in your drivers range as well. Call it mediocre. On the street it is quite different as the Viper hooks up well on concrete and asphalt. But at Milan in the past I have had great difficulty. Very slick. Probably worse with the SRT and its higher gear ratio and run flats.
I sent that message out to 8 Viper owners. The 3 that joined in last year(Motor City Madman, genXgts, and 2tall), and 5 others that were in the rough vicinity. If you'd like to invite SylvanSRT that would be fine, but I figured I'd keep the numbers down as we would like to be as close to an even 40 cars as possible. I think about 35 people have committed thus far, but a few always cancel.
Just FYI, I would not take your car to Milan. I've probably gone about 6 times this year, and each time I've made no more than 5 runs in 5 hours. I went to Lapeer on sunday and made 7 runs in just over an hour, and they were all at least .3 quicker than what Milan gets me. If you're looking for plenty of runs and don't mind an even less, uh, "sophisticated" crowd, it's the place to be.
I know MCM and GenX will be there, and figured I'd give a few SRT's a shot. If you ever wanna just give it a run on the street without the pressure of sitting at a tree with people watching, give me a shout! I've yet to run an SRT. I think I could take most on a track, but on the street where I can't take advantage of high rpm launches, it'd be a crap shoot.(lowly no torque LS6)
Just FYI, I would not take your car to Milan. I've probably gone about 6 times this year, and each time I've made no more than 5 runs in 5 hours. I went to Lapeer on sunday and made 7 runs in just over an hour, and they were all at least .3 quicker than what Milan gets me. If you're looking for plenty of runs and don't mind an even less, uh, "sophisticated" crowd, it's the place to be.
I know MCM and GenX will be there, and figured I'd give a few SRT's a shot. If you ever wanna just give it a run on the street without the pressure of sitting at a tree with people watching, give me a shout! I've yet to run an SRT. I think I could take most on a track, but on the street where I can't take advantage of high rpm launches, it'd be a crap shoot.(lowly no torque LS6)
BigCarrot
Enthusiast
DBK, I'd say that's a pretty fair assessment. I guess three tenths is 3-4 car-lengths in the 1/4 mile. That sounds about right.
99 R/T 10
Enthusiast
I'm up to a friendly race, open track at MMP! Let me know when and where. Show down in Alabama!
Mike
99 R/T 10
Enthusiast
J Smith,
How far are you away from Montgomery? I think I can round up several in my local area and maybe a couple of ZR1s.
BAD68GTO
Enthusiast
Not stock, so the point is moot I think. Look at the quarter mile times, and that shows it all. My 600 HP GTO has been beat by Monzas at the track, and they are not stock, so the video is just that, respectfully, it is just a video. Nuff said. ;-)
Baghdad Bob, (err I mean zo6les), just because you believe a z06 is faster doesn't make it so. Just because you propagandize that it's faster doesn't make it so. Just because you post it doesn't make it so.
Numbers and facts speak for themselves. Read ANY published review. It's nonsense to start calling all your internet friends to try and "prove" to us Viper guys that your car is faster. There is nothing to prove, the automotive world knows that the Viper is the fastest stock vehicle made in America and frankly doesn't care much as it's accepted and life goes on. You seem to care more than anyone. Go pick on Mustangs or Hondas or anyone else you actually stand a chance at winning. I also notice when z06 guys compare 1/4 times, they tend to take the fastest times from the z06 (whether they are accurate and reliable) and compare them to the slowest times for a Viper. Another thing I've noticed is that vette guys like to compare GM's latest technology (2002,2003 z06's) to a 1992-1995 Gen I viper. Basically, they do anything to try and level the playing field. GM is always at least one step behind the Viper yet owners play catch up by either relying on word of mouth 1/4 runs or modding their car and comparing against a stock viper, or worse yet, comparing their 2003 modded z06 to a completely stock Gen I viper. Crazy stuff really!
Remember, stock vs stock is the only thing that matters. Once modded, everything is out the window and their is no baseline. Science is science. Fact is fact.
"my uncles friend saw that a neighbors cousins boyfriend said that a z06 ran in the 11's completely stock" doesn't make fact. And remember, you can say stock all you want but what is really inside the motor? No one truly knows except the owner. I've been witness to many an occasion where there has been dishonesty in this regard. That's why published reports and test are the only CREDIBLE source of data that should be relied on when comparing vehicles. I find it VERY difficult to believe a 100% stock z06 can run 11.9's when there are no published reports even close to those numbers. Yet you keep seeing people type "there are two people who have run 11.9's with totally stock z06's." This to me sounds like an urban myth and probably got started by someone either,
1) posted by some z06 fanatic who said it because he believed it was certainly "possible" someway somehow"
2) or, actually was run and backed up by "witnesses" who truly believed what they saw and was told by the owner it was totally, 100% stock. In this case, refer to my statement above. I don't believe it for a second. These cars were modded in my opinion.
It's also complete nonsense that some of you guys don't know what the definition of "is" is, or in this case what "stock is".
Sounds like you've been watching too many reruns of Clinton and Baghdad Bob speaches.
Let's get back to reality z06 owners. You have a great car, but it doesn't touch a Viper in power or handling, stock vs stock. (and that's the only way it really matters)
Numbers and facts speak for themselves. Read ANY published review. It's nonsense to start calling all your internet friends to try and "prove" to us Viper guys that your car is faster. There is nothing to prove, the automotive world knows that the Viper is the fastest stock vehicle made in America and frankly doesn't care much as it's accepted and life goes on. You seem to care more than anyone. Go pick on Mustangs or Hondas or anyone else you actually stand a chance at winning. I also notice when z06 guys compare 1/4 times, they tend to take the fastest times from the z06 (whether they are accurate and reliable) and compare them to the slowest times for a Viper. Another thing I've noticed is that vette guys like to compare GM's latest technology (2002,2003 z06's) to a 1992-1995 Gen I viper. Basically, they do anything to try and level the playing field. GM is always at least one step behind the Viper yet owners play catch up by either relying on word of mouth 1/4 runs or modding their car and comparing against a stock viper, or worse yet, comparing their 2003 modded z06 to a completely stock Gen I viper. Crazy stuff really!
Remember, stock vs stock is the only thing that matters. Once modded, everything is out the window and their is no baseline. Science is science. Fact is fact.
"my uncles friend saw that a neighbors cousins boyfriend said that a z06 ran in the 11's completely stock" doesn't make fact. And remember, you can say stock all you want but what is really inside the motor? No one truly knows except the owner. I've been witness to many an occasion where there has been dishonesty in this regard. That's why published reports and test are the only CREDIBLE source of data that should be relied on when comparing vehicles. I find it VERY difficult to believe a 100% stock z06 can run 11.9's when there are no published reports even close to those numbers. Yet you keep seeing people type "there are two people who have run 11.9's with totally stock z06's." This to me sounds like an urban myth and probably got started by someone either,
1) posted by some z06 fanatic who said it because he believed it was certainly "possible" someway somehow"
2) or, actually was run and backed up by "witnesses" who truly believed what they saw and was told by the owner it was totally, 100% stock. In this case, refer to my statement above. I don't believe it for a second. These cars were modded in my opinion.
It's also complete nonsense that some of you guys don't know what the definition of "is" is, or in this case what "stock is".
Sounds like you've been watching too many reruns of Clinton and Baghdad Bob speaches.
Let's get back to reality z06 owners. You have a great car, but it doesn't touch a Viper in power or handling, stock vs stock. (and that's the only way it really matters)
Vic
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Viper envy makes people insane.
(Thats why I sold my C4!)
(Thats why I sold my C4!)
Russ M
Enthusiast
Oh no, this thread is back. 
FranciscoR.
Enthusiast
Ok people chill out. Am I going to have to pull out my 160hp 4x4 Ranger XLT and teach you all a lesson?...lol
Snake Bitten
Enthusiast
Obviously I need to step back in here...How's this...
I'll race any of the vette girls...anytime...anywhere...
...in Minnesota...I ain't driving umpteen hours to **** the paint off of yet another corvette...It's really getting old...Like this thread!
PS: I could be persuaded to drive to Iowa, Illinois, Wisconsin, Ohio...and possibly Missouri...but there better be some cold bevies and a strip bar involved!!
I'll race any of the vette girls...anytime...anywhere...
...in Minnesota...I ain't driving umpteen hours to **** the paint off of yet another corvette...It's really getting old...Like this thread!
PS: I could be persuaded to drive to Iowa, Illinois, Wisconsin, Ohio...and possibly Missouri...but there better be some cold bevies and a strip bar involved!!
99 R/T 10
Enthusiast
Hey Gerald, I will take you out the the **********(that is, just our one and only) if you'll venture down to Alabama for the races on the 25th of October at MMP, LS1/mustang/ZO6/Viper shootout.
Mike
Mike
jamie furman
Enthusiast
A lot of guys who post on this board only race on this board they never go to the track because if they did they would realize the Z06 is pretty close to the viper on the dragstrip. And when we have viper vette shootouts around here the vettes usually pound the vipers because the viper guys can't drive. A bone stock viper gts with a good driver runs 11.8 or maybe better no problem, a bone stock Z06 with good driver runs 12.2 or better and thats a fact. As an owner of both and many, many passes under my belt I think I can give a good account. You guys know how it is what ever you own you want to think is the best, I bought both so I could give a impartial opinion.
Vic
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I totally respect that synopsys, Jamie. I only wish I ran 11.8! I can respect a Z06 driver who knows how to launch it well. But I have to say that with "equal" drivers, the Viper has the edge. But how many times are the drivers "equal"?
Myself, I'd be happy with low 12s right now. It takes so long to get in a few runs at the track, the one time I went it took 8 hours to get 3 runs in. Bah-humbug! I'll probably just get one of those GPS thingys to hone my skills. Then go to the track later, for timeslip verification purposes. Kudos to anyone who can wring the performance out of their car, and get consistent results as good or better than the magazines, be it Vette or Viper. The cars (Z06, Viper) are so close in performance, skill can make all the difference, so run what ya brung!Motor City Mad Man
Enthusiast
I agree whole-heartedly with DBK's assessment of Vipers vs. Z06 Vettes. With the same driver and same track conditions, a bone stock Viper will probably be around .3 to .4 faster than a bone stock Vette Z06. I have run against a few Z06's and that is usually the margin of victory on a good run. I consider myself and average to poor driver.
Actually I guess I could get a little better times, but I don't want to beat on this thing too bad. I don't power shift or slam through the gears. I guess I'm kind of a granny shifter. I'll be there again this year for the Vette invite too at Milan. I only drag race 2-3 times a year on average, and actually I haven't even made it out this year yet so this Milan Vette run will be my first of the year. On a side note I wonder just how "stock" these Z06's are that people say are running very low 12's and such. A lot of these Vette guys run with drag radials and slicks so you can't really call that stock. I'd say a drag radial probably gives a .2 to .3 second faster time in the 1/4. Plus some of the Vette guys have little performance things done to their cars that while they may not add much to the performance, certainly don't make them bone stock. I even ran against one Z06 guy a few years ago who took his passenger seat out when he ran against me, now you can't still call that bone stock.
I'm excited to run on the 25th. I've yet to see a Viper in action at the track this year. Hopefully we'll get to run eachother way more this year!
Admittedly, my car isn't that much faster. With the exhaust and intake I had become a consistent 12.4-.5 driver and maxed it at 12.39, but now with the h/c and DR's I can't do much better than high 11's. I'm just blaming the weather
Admittedly, my car isn't that much faster. With the exhaust and intake I had become a consistent 12.4-.5 driver and maxed it at 12.39, but now with the h/c and DR's I can't do much better than high 11's. I'm just blaming the weather
SnakeBitten
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Wow this thread wont die..I agree with Jamie especially since he has both and can drive like nobodys business..But everybody's looking at ET's only. That just tells part of the story ..What about the mph...In the quarter mile they are close because its about who gets the best traction...The mph difference is in the 4-5mph range which is alot in just a quarter mile....Its close ET wise not mph wise stock for stock imho..on the highway is all over for the Z...
You got hopped up Civics that do high 11's at 109-113 mph..Dont mean its close to the Viper speed wise...Back in 98 my friend had a Supra..He ran a guy at E-town in a Talon...He ran a 12 flat to the Talon's 11.8...The Talon guy feeling big challenged me to a race on the highway...Apparently he didnt look at the 122mph my friend ran to his 116 mph..Needless to say, his ass got *****....
The 1/4 can give you a big head if you are too caught up in et...When you get on the street you may not understand whats is happening to your ass as the car you just beat or ran with is ripping you a new one...MPH matters and that is still a gap that only the new 04's have come close to stock for stock...
You got hopped up Civics that do high 11's at 109-113 mph..Dont mean its close to the Viper speed wise...Back in 98 my friend had a Supra..He ran a guy at E-town in a Talon...He ran a 12 flat to the Talon's 11.8...The Talon guy feeling big challenged me to a race on the highway...Apparently he didnt look at the 122mph my friend ran to his 116 mph..Needless to say, his ass got *****....
The 1/4 can give you a big head if you are too caught up in et...When you get on the street you may not understand whats is happening to your ass as the car you just beat or ran with is ripping you a new one...MPH matters and that is still a gap that only the new 04's have come close to stock for stock...
Fast Freddy
Enthusiast
a guy i know who used to drag race boats sold his 10 second jet boat and bought a 2002 zo6. he took it to out local dragstrip here i sunny tucson, az. that would be www.sirace.com and ran it bone stock. the elevation of our track is 3,075 feet above sea level. the air temp that day was like 70 degrees. the track prep was immaculate because it was a super chevy event. the driver weighs like 250 lbs. he ran a 12.4 second pass at 112 mph. this would make for a 12.0 second pass at 116 mph at sea level with 55 degree air temp. eat your heart out boys.
Gerald
Enthusiast
quick....but definatley not FAST 
VIPERnXr4ti
Enthusiast
hey now we dont need ANY Z06 guys coming over to the Stang forums and educating us....btw (just to be a **** ) there are a few guys over there that would be chomping at the bit to put one of these so called "stock" Z06 (dont call them Z's Nissan makes the Z not GM)....now i love cars in general and i drive a Stang so I'm one of those guys who both Vette and Viper guys love to crap on by saying "its still a Mustang" whatever... I also dont like to hear the whole "Vette has more heritage" argument...IT BETTER being around for 50 years, but i seem to remember some Vipers wiping the floor with some Vettes for 3-4 years in a row when the playing field was level(factory backed vs factory backed).....back on topic...Stock vs. Stock an 11.77 has been PUBLISHED for both Gen II and Gen III Vipers....never seen times published for a Stock Z06 come close to that....the Z06 is CLOSE to the Viper in stock form...but it wont win EVER in identical situations with equal driver skill involved...its plain and simple, i cant see how anyone can deny that???....NOW i will attest driver skill goes A LONG way in drag racing....a guy Paul over on Stangnet who is running 12.3's NA in a near full weight 1994 Mustang GT, now there are guys with more mods than him running high 12's....put simply Paul can DRIVE!....now maybe you can drive better than the 12 Viper owners you raced...thats an acomplishment and a half because you beat a superior car and thats awesome!....i agree with an earlier post where it mentions that Vette guys disregard magazine published times for Z06's calling them slow, but will cite Magazine times for Vipers, thats funny.....niether car is stock in this comparison...if ANYTHING is non OEM or non OEM replacement its not stock...that includes tires....ET streets ARE NOT STOCK....and im curious as to how ET streets are better for your drivetrain than stock tires??? ET Streets grip like hell putting MASSIVE stress on drivetrain parts....MUCH more so than some wheel hop....
Anthony
) there are a few guys over there that would be chomping at the bit to put one of these so called "stock" Z06 (dont call them Z's Nissan makes the Z not GM)....now i love cars in general and i drive a Stang so I'm one of those guys who both Vette and Viper guys love to crap on by saying "its still a Mustang" whatever... I also dont like to hear the whole "Vette has more heritage" argument...IT BETTER being around for 50 years, but i seem to remember some Vipers wiping the floor with some Vettes for 3-4 years in a row when the playing field was level(factory backed vs factory backed).....back on topic...Stock vs. Stock an 11.77 has been PUBLISHED for both Gen II and Gen III Vipers....never seen times published for a Stock Z06 come close to that....the Z06 is CLOSE to the Viper in stock form...but it wont win EVER in identical situations with equal driver skill involved...its plain and simple, i cant see how anyone can deny that???....NOW i will attest driver skill goes A LONG way in drag racing....a guy Paul over on Stangnet who is running 12.3's NA in a near full weight 1994 Mustang GT, now there are guys with more mods than him running high 12's....put simply Paul can DRIVE!....now maybe you can drive better than the 12 Viper owners you raced...thats an acomplishment and a half because you beat a superior car and thats awesome!....i agree with an earlier post where it mentions that Vette guys disregard magazine published times for Z06's calling them slow, but will cite Magazine times for Vipers, thats funny.....niether car is stock in this comparison...if ANYTHING is non OEM or non OEM replacement its not stock...that includes tires....ET streets ARE NOT STOCK....and im curious as to how ET streets are better for your drivetrain than stock tires??? ET Streets grip like hell putting MASSIVE stress on drivetrain parts....MUCH more so than some wheel hop....Anthony
