Viper Won't Start

[Erick]

Due to some terrible stock speakers (including one that was completely blown) I decided to replace them and the head unit yesterday. Long story short, the Viper (2001 GTS) isn't starting now.

What it's doing:
The car is turning over when I try to start it, but that's all it does. At this point, the one thing I am sure about is there is definitely enough power/juice in the battery.

What I've done:
I've reset the alarm (in center glove box), checked all the fuses, tried to jump it, trickle charged it through last night, and then unplugged the batter for a few minutes then reconnected it. Obviously since I'm posting on here, none of that has worked.

I tried searching old posts and found a few that seemed similar but more often then not, the resolution was never posted. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks, and hope you're having a better morning then me!

 

[plumcrazy]

how old is the battery ?

 

[dave6666]

Did you replace the amp in the truck?

Have you tried unplugging the new head and starting the car?

Does the alarm set and unset with the fob?

 

[Erick]

Oh, and I suppose hello to everyone as well. Been on here a while, but mostly lurking around as I am still new to the community. Had my Viper since November, it's a Yellow/Black GTS. I've gone on a run with the local VCA group (live in San Diego) and had a blast as well.

So far most of the mods have been just the new-used owner ones. Replaced all fluids and the standard 'repairs' to stock parts to make it a bit safer. And obviously now I've worked a bit on the stereo, with great success (it technically DOES sound great, but the car doesn't start).

 

[Erick]

I did replace the amp in the trunk (removed it entirely actually), and have not unplugged the head unit. Will go and give that a shot right now.

The battery is about 2 years old.

 

[dave6666]

The fuel pump relay is right by the amp in the back. Make sure you didn't disturb it. Do you hear the pump for that 1 second with key on?

 

[Erick]

I did check it to make sure that all seemed 'in order', but when it comes down to it the Viper's still not starting so I will definitely double check.

 

[racerjim]

I would check all the fuses as well, its possible something got shorted out and blew a fuse.

 

[Erick]

Double checked the fuses, and they seem to be intact. Also disconnected the head unit completely and it didn't change the car behavior. As I've never really had a reason before, I haven't paid attention to the fuel pump noise...but if it's there now it's extremely quiet because I couldn't hear a thing.

Granted it's probably impossible to describe, but exactly what should I be hearing?

Was talking with my neighbor because he's out washing his Porsche (still early morning here) and his thought was the fuel pump relay, or potentially the wires going to the relay. I was working in that area, so it is a real possibility.

I pulled the relay out and put it back in, no change. Could that have gone bad/blown/or something? Out of curiosity, I pulled the relay out and tried to start the car and the noises and sound of start-up remained identical as when it was in.

 

[Erick]

To check the connection of the relay/fuse, would it make sense to see if there is current in the fuel pump fuse?

 

[RTTTTed]

The fuel pump has a fuse and a relay at the rear.

I'd change the relay with a horn relay (in the front fuse box - not the one under the dash), and see if the horn works.

AFTER that I'd try and borrow a friends ECU because there is a stereo power wire that is a direct Bat feed and a key'd power supply.

If you've read all the old threads I presume that you've pulled a spark plug wire and used a screw driver to check that there is spark and also tried the fuel pressure test at the Scharder valve?

Ted

 

[Erick]

My fuel pump relay is completely unique to the car. In fact, checked 7 other cars and it is unique to them too. Is that normal?

I will give a friend a call to try his ECU.

 

[dave6666]

As far as I know the fuel pump relay is a standard DIN relay.

 

[RTTTTed]

A relay is unique to 7 cars?

Are you saying that it's different that all the other relays in the car or different to all cars except the 7 cars that you checked?

Ted

 

[RTTTTed]

I went outside and checked the relay in one of my cars, it's different to the rest of the car's relays.

If you can borrow an ECU - borrow the relay first. What about the Shraider valve? No fuel pressure? Any spark?

 

[Erick]

Looks like no fuel pressure, pushed down the valve and nothing came out. In fact there was basically no resistance when I pushed it down.

Will probably have to wait a day before I can try out the friends ECU, but that's a great point to borrow his relay and check that first.

And yeah, sorry that wasn't clear. Between 7 cars, I couldn't find one that matched my fuel pump relay. That relay is a goofy one in comparison to how most standard ones look.

So narrowing it down, no fuel pressure = ? Anything else I can do to narrow down the fuel issue?

Again, thanks for all your help and time.

 

[AZTVR]

So narrowing it down, no fuel pressure = ? Anything else I can do to narrow down the fuel issue?
.

Number one has GOT to be the fuel pump relay or the connection or wiring since it is next to the thing that you were replacing after which it appears your fuel pump is no longer pumping.

I would get a voltmeter and check out voltages at that connector if a known good relay does not fix this.

 

[RTTTTed]

No fuel pressure = no start. Next is to find out if there's spark or not. If there's no spark then look for ECU and Automatic Shutdown Relay issues. Usually if there's spark then the problem will be the fuel system. If there's no spark AND no fuel that's when the problem is something that controls both engine systems (ECU, alarm, etc.).

If your relay is good then you need to check if there's power at the fuel pump. If there's power going into the fuel tank it should be the pump or ground. If it's the pump then upgrade to a Walbro (equal quality with a slightly higher volume). Macedo Motorsports can get you the correct pump and return line (as can other vendors).

Ted

 

[Erick]

So to make sure I understood this right, I just needed to unplug a spark plug wire and put a screw driver down into it to see if there was a spark?

If that's it, then there is no spark.

So I'm looking at potentially the alarm or ECU then. It's not an aftermarket alarm, so with that being said is the reset to ground the actual positive battery cable out?

In other words:
-take off rear tire/wheel
-access battery
-disconnect positive cable
-ground positive cable
-reconnect battery

Is there a second way that I don't have to take my wheel off? Or is not the right way at all?

 

[RTTTTed]

No, the screwdriver needs to be in contact with the metal connector inside the plug wire and then you hold the screwdriver needs to be held withing about .080" from a good metal ground (not the valve covers). Then the spark should be able to be seen jumping the gap. Or, ... use a sparkplug in the plug wire and ground the bottom to a metal ground and watch for spark across the gap.

Also some shops have a globe that goes between the wire and the plug that lights up with the electricity passes through.

Then if no spark change the ASD relay/fuse and see if that fixes it. Too many other reasons that the ASD could be shut down so after that try the ECU. If the alarm LED is working fine it's PROBABLY not the alarm system.

You checked the fuse box under the dash? I think that there was a guage fuse that wouldn't let my Viper start once. depends on year of car.

Ted

 

[Erick]

To add to this, I have tried resetting the alarm by holding down the two FOB buttons until it beeps a few times, including after leaving the front positive cable off for a minute (not the one on the actual battery though). This didn't help.

 

[dave6666]

Have someone turn the key to <RUN> while you have your head in the trunk. Not <START> but just the first position to <RUN>. WHILE YOU HAVE YOUR HEAD IN THE TRUNK.

You should be able to hear the fuel pump run for about 1 second. It is a medium pitch whirring sound. If you do not hear it you have no power to the fuel pump.

 

[Erick]

There is definitely no power to the fuel pump. I followed the instructions about the spark plug wires, and there still was no spark. I had already checked and switched out the ASD fuse/relay so I am pretty confident that isn't it.

Sounds like I'm down to one of two things, potentially a random fuse somewhere (hopefully) or a problem with the ECU.

 

[Erick]

On a side note (I tried to search for this), how much 'turn' is the center console key alarm disabling supposed to give?

When I put the key in and turned it, it BARELY gave in either direction. Each way I could twist had a bit of resistance, but from the key insert position it couldn't turn more then 15 degrees. Is this normal?

 

[dave6666]

Just checked my '01 - it turned a full 90 degrees. Of course since I've never done that, and now that I have... if my car won't start you owe me!!!

 

[Erick]

Good to know and thanks for checking that , i'll go investigate that a bit too. I suppose it's possible then that the alarm isn't resetting. I'll try to test this by setting off the alarm, and seeing if it disables when I twist that.

In a bit though...daughter is napping at the moment.

 

[dave6666]

You can always pull that panel and manually access the switch from the back.

 

[RTTTTed]

I just checked my alarm and the switch also goes past 90 degrees

Are you saying that the alarm doesn't work? If you turn it on and the light goes on, check if the alarm goes off when you open the door or hatch/hood. If you turn it off and the LED goes out and there is power for the door switches etc. you're probably OK guessing that the alarm is probably working properly.

Usually when the alarm system is at fault the LEDs signal that there is a problem.

 

[Erick]

In the interest of 'closing out' this thread, the cars up and running again. I tried everything humanly possible, and then I got a phone call from the friend that helped me with the original stereo install. He wasn't sure, but thought he may have forgotten to plug back in a plug by the battery.

Got in there searched around, and sure enough...found the plug not plugged in and tucked up above the battery. Plugged in back in and car worked perfectly.

Sadly all too simple.

Thanks all for the help and support on resolving this, it's great to have a solid support group for those troubling car times

 

[RTTTTed]

Pain in the Asp, but best solution! Not a car problem at all.